Not By Works
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Not about you Mr. M....I was commenting on the most faithful men of the bible who did bad things that is all.
Point being that those "bad things" did not cause them to loose their salvation.
My understanding from what I remember is that you agree that we are placed in Christ when we are justified and this is a spiritual transaction that cannot be undone....correct?
Point being that those "bad things" did not cause them to loose their salvation.
My understanding from what I remember is that you agree that we are placed in Christ when we are justified and this is a spiritual transaction that cannot be undone....correct?
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NIV1984 Romans 2:1-16
God’s Righteous Judgment You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads you toward repentance? But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God “will give to each person according to what he has done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism. All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
God’s Righteous Judgment You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads you toward repentance? But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God “will give to each person according to what he has done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism. All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
Well now you stole my line (Romans 6:14) ...just don't start calling yourself "UnderGrace II" with a dog picture or something.
But I disagree with your statement above to some degree, that hopefully follow salvation is better
But I am not going to tackle it today.
But I disagree with your statement above to some degree, that hopefully follow salvation is better
But I am not going to tackle it today.
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Do you take away obedience from the WORD of TRUTH, the gospel of our salvation and replace it with man made or taught doctrines?
Would you rather believe the FALSE prophets who have gone out to deceive? Are you a willing party to this deception?
Again, I do believe that no deceiver will teach obedience to God and it is very clear and evident in the garden of Eden and is equally proven by God's command from the beginning which is to LOVE GOD by loving one another and this is LOVE; that we WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS.
NIV1984 1 John 2:3-6
We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
God bless.
Would you rather believe the FALSE prophets who have gone out to deceive? Are you a willing party to this deception?
Again, I do believe that no deceiver will teach obedience to God and it is very clear and evident in the garden of Eden and is equally proven by God's command from the beginning which is to LOVE GOD by loving one another and this is LOVE; that we WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS.
NIV1984 1 John 2:3-6
We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
God bless.
The Gospel of our salvation speaks about the LIFE, death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. Would you take away the LIFE part of the Gospel which is how Jesus walked on this earth which means how He lived His life in obedience to God which we should follow as we WALK AS JESUS DID.
NIV1984 Hebrews 5:8-9
Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him.
If He suffered then we will also suffer for Him. If He laid down His life for us then we also ought to lay down our lives for our brothers because we are not greater than our master.
NIV1984 Philippians 1:29
For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for him...
God bless.
NIV1984 Hebrews 5:8-9
Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him.
If He suffered then we will also suffer for Him. If He laid down His life for us then we also ought to lay down our lives for our brothers because we are not greater than our master.
NIV1984 Philippians 1:29
For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for him...
God bless.
I agree. They are those who change the grace of God into a license for IMMORALITY.
NIV1984 1 Timothy 4:1-2
Instructions to Timothy The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.
And what does the demons or the FALSE prophets teach, obedience to God or otherwise?
NIV1984 2 Corinthians 11:13-15
For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
Sorry, just have to agree with scriptures.
God bless.
NIV1984 1 Timothy 4:1-2
Instructions to Timothy The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.
And what does the demons or the FALSE prophets teach, obedience to God or otherwise?
NIV1984 2 Corinthians 11:13-15
For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
Sorry, just have to agree with scriptures.
God bless.
Perhaps you are unaware of Galatians 3.
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
To me, Paul is saying that we are saved by grace thru faith, we are also perfected by grace thru faith. The Law cannot justify us, and the Law certainly cannot perfect us either.
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
To me, Paul is saying that we are saved by grace thru faith, we are also perfected by grace thru faith. The Law cannot justify us, and the Law certainly cannot perfect us either.
NIV1984 Matthew 15:3-9
Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,’ he is not to ‘honor his father’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.’”
Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,’ he is not to ‘honor his father’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.’”