Not By Works

[Macabeus]

Undergrace, please read my posts carefully and look up the scriptures and read them in their context.

Particularly read Romans 6-8.

Bud extracts like 10% of them and omits 90%

 

[UnderGrace]

But you and Bud seem to be saying that we are slaves to sin. We are not slaves to sin. WE have been redeemed by the Blood of Christ. Sin has no more dominion over us, and Christ died to destroy the works of the flesh, and we are called to put to death the works of the flesh. NO room for saying that Christians are slaves to sin

Bud's doctrine is very close to the doctrine that is warned against in the first epistle of John.

In the regenerated side (Christ within us) no one is slave to sin, however in the flesh this can happen.

Alcoholism etc.,

 

[Macabeus]

To me the whole problem is that most people do not define "their terms" and then people talk past each other.

So what so you mean by "slave to sin"

What we are called to do and what believers actually do can be/ not always/but sometimes, very separate.

I already defined it numerous times. A slave is one who is owned by a master, (which is why they were bought and sold) and who are under dominion of another, and are wholly given up to another's will.

Is a Christian to be owned by sin, under the dominion and rule of sin, and wholly given up to sin and it's lusts, or is a Christian dead to sin, free from sin's dominion, and called to put that spiritual reality into physical reality (position to practice) by putting to death the deeds of the flesh. (Romans 8:13_

 

[UnderGrace]

Undergrace, please read my posts carefully and look up the scriptures and read them in their context.

Particularly read Romans 6-8.

Bud extracts like 10% of them and omits 90%

I am sure he probably does not ...does not seem like @Budman to do that

 

[UnderGrace]

I already defined it numerous times. A slave is one who is owned by a master, (which is why they were bought and sold) and who are under dominion of another, and are wholly given up to another's will.

Is a Christian to be owned by sin, under the dominion and rule of sin, and wholly given up to sin and it's lusts, or is a Christian dead to sin, free from sin's dominion, and called to put that spiritual reality into physical reality (position to practice) by putting to death the deeds of the flesh. (Romans 8:13_

Okay...well so you do deny the dual nature of the believer?

Where did the flesh nature go, certainly you are still aware of your own flesh nature?

 

[gb9]

I already defined it numerous times. A slave is one who is owned by a master, (which is why they were bought and sold) and who are under dominion of another, and are wholly given up to another's will.

Is a Christian to be owned by sin, under the dominion and rule of sin, and wholly given up to sin and it's lusts, or is a Christian dead to sin, free from sin's dominion, and called to put that spiritual reality into physical reality (position to practice) by putting to death the deeds of the flesh. (Romans 8:13_

all right, I agree, we are not slaves to sin. Paul says in the same letter that we should reckon ourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ.

there. peace offering. we will see how it goes.

 

[Macabeus]

In the regenerated side (Christ within us) no one is slave to sin, however in the flesh this can happen.

Alcoholism etc.,

But we are called to reckon ourselves dead to sin (Romans 6:11) and free from sin (Romans 6:18)

Sin is idolatry. So the idolatry needs to be dealt with first. Once the idolatry is dealt with, you are no longer under the dominion of sin.

Addictions- you can be under an addiction, which is a spiritual, and also a physical and or psychological matter. The physical and psychological healing may take time. But the spiritual deliverance from the dominion of sin is instantaneous when we are justified and regenerated.

We are free and dead to sin, even though we don't always live like it.

 

[Macabeus]

Okay...well so you do deny the dual nature of the believer?

Where did the flesh nature go, certainly you are still aware of your own flesh nature?

No, I do not deny the struggle of flesh and Spirit at all. It is a struggle we will fact until the parousia. But if you walk in the Spirit, you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. In other words, you don't have to be under sin's dominion.

 

[Macabeus]

all right, I agree, we are not slaves to sin. Paul says in the same letter that we should reckon ourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ.

there. peace offering. we will see how it goes.

I have no issues with you. Bud is trying to teach that we as Christians are still (present tense) slaves to sin.

I never had any issue with you.

 

[UnderGrace]

But we are called to reckon ourselves dead to sin (Romans 6:11) and free from sin (Romans 6:18)

Sin is idolatry. So the idolatry needs to be dealt with first. Once the idolatry is dealt with, you are no longer under the dominion of sin.

Addictions- you can be under an addiction, which is a spiritual, physical and or psychological matter. The physical and psychological healing may take time. But the spiritual deliverance is from the dominion of sin is instantaneous.

We are free and dead to sin, even though we don't always live like it.

Well I kinda see what you are stating...I cannot keep up with your posts and I have a pile of work to do...so maybe I can respond after I have had some time to think and look at Romans 6:11 in context...Romans builds upon itself so important to see where Paul is in his argument.

 

[UnderGrace]

No, I do not deny the struggle of flesh and Spirit at all. It is a struggle we will fact until the parousia. But if you walk in the Spirit, you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. In other words, you don't have to be under sin's dominion.

I can agree on this to an extent, the Spirit empowers us to not give over to sins of the flesh.
I certainly would never state we are sinless because while we have victory in Jesus, the flesh is still there.

 

[Macabeus]

Well I kinda see what you are stating...I cannot keep up with your posts and I have a pile of work to do...so maybe I can respond after I have had some time to think and look at Romans 6:11 in context...Romans builds upon itself so important to see where Paul is in his argument.

The immediete context would be Romans 6-8. The larger contexts would be the entire book of Romans, then it goes on from there. Paul definitely teaches a spiritual struggle between the flesh and the Spirit, and he also teaches that they both cannot have dominion over someone. You are either under the dominion of Christ or you are under the dominion of sin. No one can serve two masters. They will hate the one or despise the other. I know that's about Mammon, but I think IMO it applies to sin as well.

 

[Macabeus]

I can agree on this to an extent, the Spirit empowers us to not give over to sins of the flesh.
I certainly would never state we are sinless because while we have victory in Jesus, the flesh is still there.

I never stated I am sinless. I fight and struggle every day. But I know who my master is and who my master is not. Christ is my master, and no one else

 

[Macabeus]

I can agree on this to an extent, the Spirit empowers us to not give over to sins of the flesh.
I certainly would never state we are sinless because while we have victory in Jesus, the flesh is still there.

UnderGrace, we agree on more than you know. A lot more than you know.

And yes, I do admit to being yet rough around the edges. My apologies to all

 

[Macabeus]

And yet you sin constantly whether in thought, word, or deed. Go ahead - say you don't. I triple dog dare ya!

Constantly? You mean you and I NEVER walk after the Spirit?

 

[Melach]

Yes, two natures. YOU decide which one you walk in every day. I learned this in sunday school when I was in elementary school.

thanks for speaking to me that way. i will be blessed for that.

 

[Macabeus]

thanks for speaking to me that way. i will be blessed for that.

That was not in reply to you. That was in reply to the adversarial, antagonistic Budman. Look at the post I was replying to again. I have no issue with you. You're outstanding in my book

 

[corazondeldei]

If ever there are those in here who devalues Christ 's work, promises and ministry, it will be those who according to the bible are thode who DIVIDE you, having not the Spirit and who change the grace of our God into a license for IMMORALITY. This is very evident from the intention of this thread to divide or separate the believers into groups, the FAITH ALONE group and the obedience to God through faith group which you blasphemously address as satanic, of the devil and not of God together with the insulting name calls and mockings as we can see from the post below which is full of hate and accusations coming from you. Not so convincing and edifying I guess.

I know that ANYONE that believes they keep themselves saved are deluded and ignorant of the truth....

The following is a comparison between the bible and salvation losers......and make no mistake...this is exactly what they peddle and or how they butcher the word of God by their losable salvation....

Bible --> I will never leave thee or forsake thee
Salvation Losers ---->Jesus is a liar and will leave us and forsake us

Bible --->We are saved to the uttermost and kept by the power of God through faith
Salvation losers --->The power of God is weak and inept, we are not saved to the uttermost and GOD does not keep us

Bible -->Jesus begins, finishes and completes the work of faith in us
Salvation losers ---> WE must maintain our faith because JESUS does not finish and complete the work of faith in us

Bible --> He that believes on the SON is having everlasting/eternal life
Salvation losers --->He that believes and MAINTAINS his belief on the SON is having temporal life based upon what he does or does not do

Bible --> Therefore we conclude a man is justified by faith without the deeds/works of the law
Salvation losers -->James out of context tells us we are justified by our works before God

Bible -->It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe
Salvation losers --->It pleased God by works, church membership, baptism, pew jumping, speaking in tongues, back flipping down the isle, saying 57 hail Mary's, taking the Lord's supper, keeping the sacraments and a dozen other religiously zealous man made efforts to save them

Bible -->NOTHING can separate us from the love of GOD
Salvation losers -->Numerous things can separate us from the love of GOD

Bible--->We are in the Son's hand, the Father's hand and NO AN can remove us from that position
Salvation losers -->The above is false, we can remove ourselves because God is weak and inept

Bible -->We are sealed unto the day of redemption
Salvation losers-->The seal of God can be broken because God is weak and inept

Bible --->Where sin abounds, grace abounds the more
Salvation losers--> We qualify, quantify sin and God's grace only covers those small sins when we mess up and for sure we have never lost it, but eternal security believers lose it because they believe they can live any way they want and live like the devil

Bible --->He that believes on the Son is not condemned
Salvation losers --> Believers are condemned all the time and returned to being goats after becoming sheep

Bible --> I will lose nothing, but raise it up the last day
Salvation losers -->God loses people all the time because he is too weak to keep them saved

Bible--> We are born again from above by INCORRUPTIBLE SEED
Salvation losers --> We are not born of incorruptible seed, because that seed can be corrupted and one die lost after being born again

Bible --> The gifts and calling of God are irrevocable
Salvation losers -->God's free GIFT of salvation can be revoked because GOD will break ALL the above promises and send one to hell after being saved

ETC.............I dare to say that salvation losers are false.....and what they peddle is not of GOD and as blasphemous as it comes......the above is a SMALL sample of scriptural promises that MUST BE DENIED, REJECTED and or SWEPT UNDER THE TABLE to peddle a dime store salvation that cannot be found in the bible and or a dime store salvation that devalues the work, promises and ministry of CHRIST!!!!!!!

 

[Macabeus]

thanks for speaking to me that way. i will be blessed for that.

That post you are replying to was to Budman, not you. My reply to you was later. Check who the post is addressed to.

 

[UnderGrace]

UnderGrace, we agree on more than you know. A lot more than you know.

And yes, I do admit to being yet rough around the edges. My apologies to all

Join the crowd ..pretty much the way it goes here on BDF