Some truth about speaking in tongues, the Holy Ghost, spiritual gifts and 1 Corinthians 14

[7seasrekeyed]

And you would claim now that everybody who has not heared the Holy Spirit is not born again??

I hope no one answers this nonsense

wolfwint knows very well that no one is saying that at all

time to ignore this dude.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

My question to you: Please provide scripture that shows something other than tongues accompanying the infilling of the Holy Ghost.

Scripture shows that speaking in tongues accompanied the initial baptism of the Holy Ghost. The book of Acts is essential to understanding the birth of the NT church. It would be foolish to discount the instruction God provided in Acts; it paints a clear picture of what occurs when God fills one with His Spirit.

Acts 2:2-4
And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Notice the cloven tongues appeared as fire sitting upon those present. This points to the fact that the Spirit entered into each person individually. There is a parallel in the OT. How did one know that God was present in the wilderness tabernacle? God produced a flame that dispelled the darkness. Christians realize that there very bodies are considered God's tabernacle/dwelling place today.

Your comment that Paul stated that not all speak in tongues was his reference to the Spiritual gift of tongues. This is separate from the the initial infilling of the Holy Ghost.

In addition, Jesus explained to Nicodemus how one knows an individual is born of the Spirit. He stated clearly that one cannot visibly see the Spirit, however, the Spirit can be heard when it comes:

John 3:8
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

After receiving the Holy Ghost one can stir it, and its fruit should continue to manifest in believers lives.

this is really a good explanation

I was just reading yesterday in a book I have, that the visible presence of God leading the Israelites out of Egypt is comparable to us receiving the Holy Spirit today...after salvation.

honestly, when we read of how the Holy Spirit came upon the believers in the upper room and how changed they were, it is remarkable that so many do not seem to desire to be filled like that and experience that change in their desire for God

I think for so many He is only words on a page. they may say they believe those words, but actions speak louder it seems

anyway, AMEN! to your post

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Bro there is no verses outside of Acts. He said he got his information from his church meetings. Clearly its a cult thing. Man made doctrine is false doctrine and theres no point entertaining it. If it aint in scripture then WHO CARES. Hes a pentecostal guy. Probly believes in oneness.

seriously? come on now

how is it you have missed all the teaching of Paul to the Corinthian church?

they were creating chaos in their meetings because of the misuse of tongues and Paul set them straight...like so many today need to have been taught and they were not

tongues are not confined to Acts and not confined by a time line either since the first infilling

so, it IS in scripture so therefore, according to you, you should care

hope that helps

one more thing...Waggles is not oneness, but I don't know why he would continue the conversation

 

[notuptome]

My question to you: Please provide scripture that shows something other than tongues accompanying the infilling of the Holy Ghost.

Scripture shows that speaking in tongues accompanied the initial baptism of the Holy Ghost. The book of Acts is essential to understanding the birth of the NT church. It would be foolish to discount the instruction God provided in Acts; it paints a clear picture of what occurs when God fills one with His Spirit.

Acts 2:2-4
And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Notice the cloven tongues appeared as fire sitting upon those present. This points to the fact that the Spirit entered into each person individually. There is a parallel in the OT. How did one know that God was present in the wilderness tabernacle? God produced a flame that dispelled the darkness. Christians realize that there very bodies are considered God's tabernacle/dwelling place today.

Your comment that Paul stated that not all speak in tongues was his reference to the Spiritual gift of tongues. This is separate from the the initial infilling of the Holy Ghost.

In addition, Jesus explained to Nicodemus how one knows an individual is born of the Spirit. He stated clearly that one cannot visibly see the Spirit, however, the Spirit can be heard when it comes:

John 3:8
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

After receiving the Holy Ghost one can stir it, and its fruit should continue to manifest in believers lives.

Your suggested timeline is a little off. The disciples received the Holy Spirit in the upper room when Jesus appeared to them. The risen Savior said to them receive ye the Holy Spirit as He breathed the Spirit upon them. John 20:22 Those present at Pentecost were already in possession of the Holy Spirit.

God has done signs in the past to demonstrate His presence to unbelieving Jews. For Christians do not operate by sight but by faith. Faith the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11.

If your faith is to be based on grace through faith not tongues or miracles. Romanism venerates physical things and denies the power of God in the process.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Wansvic]

And you would claim now that everybody who has not heared the Holy Spirit is not born again??

Scripture indicates that those who receive the Spirit hear His voice; speak in tongues:

The following was posted by Waggles:
John 3:8
The Spirit breatheth where he will and thou hearest his voice: but thou knowest not whence he cometh and whither he goeth. So is every one that is born of the Spirit.
How ironic the Catholic Douay-Rheims Version has the most truthful literal translation of the Greek.

 

[stonesoffire]

Its of the brain and how tongues affected it not a way of confirm a person has the Holy Spirit or the idea of sign gifts

It would seem someone is trying to prove or disprove the tongues doctrine by looking at brain activity. It not a spiritual lie detector.

Is it the interpreter of spiritual things of God. Why even chase after the idea.? What the hope in having brain activity monitored on a electronic device.? Why not simply define what the sign confirms using the bible as the test rather than chasing around a bush ?

You tell me. They (Penn State university) found that when speaking in tongues, the language DID NOT COME FROM THE LANGUAGE CENTER OF THE BRAIN. IT WAS AT REST WHILE THEY WERE SPEAKING.

It wasn't my study. Lol

 

[wolfwint]

seriously? come on now

how is it you have missed all the teaching of Paul to the Corinthian church?

they were creating chaos in their meetings because of the misuse of tongues and Paul set them straight...like so many today need to have been taught and they were not

tongues are not confined to Acts and not confined by a time line either since the first infilling

so, it IS in scripture so therefore, according to you, you should care

hope that helps

one more thing...Waggles is not oneness, but I don't know why he would continue the conversation

Why then you cant show me in the scripture? It should be easy for you. Btw nowhere in the corinthian letters Paul taught that speaking in tongues is the Proof that someone is baptised with the Holy Spirit. If you want to find the beginning of this teaching you have to go back in the beginning of the 20th century, 1900, USA.

 

[Wansvic]

When the wind blows do you hear tounges? Common knowledge. Answer is no. We all know what wind sounds like brotha. This doesnt confirm tounges.

I provided you with scripture. Please share scripture outside of Acts according to what happend at pentecost. Show me any other account refrenced outside of Acts.

Jesus used wind as an example of the Spirit. His example made it simple to understand that sound will accompany the birth of the Spirit. (John 3:8)

It is not wise to exclude information given in Acts when searching for answers regarding the spiritual rebirth of a believer. Jesus made it clear that everyone will be judged exclusively by all of His word not portions one chooses to accept or reject:

John 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Also, notice the verses in 2 Timothy do not say exclude the Book of Acts when considering spiritual rebirth doctrine. It states that ALL scripture is profitable for doctrine, correction, instruction in righteousness, etc.:

2 Tim 3:16-17
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[stonesoffire]

14 Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaritans had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them.


15 They went down and prayed for them to receive the Holy Spirit.


16 Before this he had not come on any of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.


17 Then Peter and John laid their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.


18 Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money


19 and said, "Give me this power too, so that when I lay my hands on someone, he will receive the Holy Spirit."


20 But Peter told him, "May your money perish with you because you thought you could obtain God's free gift with money!


21 You have no part or share in what we're saying, because your heart isn't right with God.


22 So repent of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, your heart's intent may be forgiven you.


What could it be that Simon saw?

 

[wolfwint]

I hope no one answers this nonsense

wolfwint knows very well that no one is saying that at all

time to ignore this dude.

Then you should Read Post 536 from wanswic and Post 545 from wagglles. This arevat least 2 who claimes it.

 

[Wansvic]

Bro there is no verses outside of Acts. He said he got his information from his church meetings. Clearly its a cult thing. Man made doctrine is false doctrine and theres no point entertaining it. If it aint in scripture then WHO CARES. Hes a pentecostal guy. Probly believes in oneness.

Scripture is clear there will be mockers in the last time. Notice as well that believers are told to build up themselves by praying in the Holy Ghost. Paul explained that speaking in tongues was praying in the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 14:14-15; Eph 6:18):

Jude 18-21
How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost (Spirit),
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

 

[wolfwint]

Jesus used wind as an example of the Spirit. His example made it simple to understand that sound will accompany the birth of the Spirit. (John 3:8)

It is not wise to exclude information given in Acts when searching for answers regarding the spiritual rebirth of a believer. Jesus made it clear that everyone will be judged exclusively by all of His word not portions one chooses to accept or reject:

John 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Also, notice the verses in 2 Timothy do not say exclude the Book of Acts when considering spiritual rebirth doctrine. It states that ALL scripture is profitable for doctrine, correction, instruction in righteousness, etc.:

2 Tim 3:16-17
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

This would say the JW, too. So you believe that you can make from every Word in the bible an Doctrine?

Why such an important Doctrine like that which you defend is not to find in any letter to believers?

And came not in Practice before 1901?

 

[Wansvic]

Your suggested timeline is a little off. The disciples received the Holy Spirit in the upper room when Jesus appeared to them. The risen Savior said to them receive ye the Holy Spirit as He breathed the Spirit upon them. John 20:22 Those present at Pentecost were already in possession of the Holy Spirit.

God has done signs in the past to demonstrate His presence to unbelieving Jews. For Christians do not operate by sight but by faith. Faith the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11.

If your faith is to be based on grace through faith not tongues or miracles. Romanism venerates physical things and denies the power of God in the process.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Jesus conveyed a first fruit of the Spirit upon the Apostles for them to accomplish miracles, etc. while He was still here on the Earth.

John 20:21-23
This reception of the Spirit was in anticipation of the day of Pentecost and should be understood as a partial limited gift of knowledge, understanding, and empowerment until Pentecost, 50 days later.
(Bible Knowledge Commentary/New Testament)

Afterward, on the Day of Pentecost the Apostles were totally infused with the Holy Spirit. We know this to be true because Jesus specifically instructed His disciples to wait in Jerusalem until they were endued with power:

Luke 24:49
And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Acts 2:4
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

 

[notuptome]

Scripture is clear there will be mockers in the last time. Notice as well that believers are told to build up themselves by praying in the Holy Ghost. Paul explained that speaking in tongues was praying in the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 14:14-15; Eph 6:18):

Jude 18-21
How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost (Spirit),
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

There will be those who will not endure sound doctrine but will heap to themselves teachers having itching ears. Three gifts ended when the NT was completed. All three were clearly listed in 1 Cor 13.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Jesus conveyed a first fruit of the Spirit upon the Apostles for them to accomplish miracles, etc. while He was still here on the Earth.

John 20:21-23
This reception of the Spirit was in anticipation of the day of Pentecost and should be understood as a partial limited gift of knowledge, understanding, and empowerment until Pentecost, 50 days later.
(Bible Knowledge Commentary/New Testament)

Afterward, on the Day of Pentecost the Apostles were totally infused with the Holy Spirit. We know this to be true because Jesus specifically instructed His disciples to wait in Jerusalem until they were endued with power:

Luke 24:49
And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Acts 2:4
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

In context the events at Pentecost which is a Jewish feast were for the Jews present to see a partial fulfillment of Joel 2. Joel is a book written to Israel of the coming restoration of Israel in the kingdom.

You embellish the events and glamorize them but they are unbiblical behavior since the completion of the NT.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[wolfwint]

Scripture is clear there will be mockers in the last time. Notice as well that believers are told to build up themselves by praying in the Holy Ghost. Paul explained that speaking in tongues was praying in the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 14:14-15; Eph 6:18):

Jude 18-21
How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost (Spirit),
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

Paul spoke in 1. Cor. 14,13-14 from those, who received the Gift of speaking in tongues.
Nowhere he taught that speaking in tongues is the Proof that somebody is baptised in the Holy Spirit.
In opposit. Paul Made in 1. Cor 13,30 clear that not all believers get the Gift of speaking in tongues.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Well, my thread on Speaking in Tongues has at least accomplished one thing--it has triggered a blizzard of new threads on speaking in tongues

Yeah, and that's all we needed.

But the focus of Christ and His apostles was on the Gospel, NOT tongues.

And Jesus spoke generally in Aramaic. That should give pause to everyone.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Yeah, and that's all we needed.

But the focus of Christ and His apostles was on the Gospel, NOT tongues.

And Jesus spoke generally in Aramaic. That should give pause to everyone.

and the focus of the Holy Spirit was on power to spread the gospel

like Peter speaking with the power and authority of the Holy Spirit so that over 3000 people were added to the believers

that is the purpose

no one thinks tongues is the gospel

if they do, I don't think they post here

 

[Wansvic]

There will be those who will not endure sound doctrine but will heap to themselves teachers having itching ears. Three gifts ended when the NT was completed. All three were clearly listed in 1 Cor 13.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

The gifts are still needed, as they were during the apostles time, in order to draw others to Christ. According to scripture they will continue until they are no longer necessary; when Jesus returns for His bride. There will be absolutely no need of spiritual gifts when the door of opportunity is closed and the spirit giver is standing before His church:

1 Cor 13:10
But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

The above verse is referring to the perfect one Jesus' return because the scripture goes on to say, I shall know even as as I am known. Each individual will see Jesus face to face:

1 Cor 13:12
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

 

[Nehemiah6]

no one thinks tongues is the gospel

If that is true we would not have threads on tongues vs threads on the Gospel in a ratio of 10:1. I would call that obsession with tongues.