A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES

[jordh24]

Unfortunately, I do not have the time to read every single one of the 64 pages on this. I do still want to put my two cents out there.

I am a youth leader at my church, a Pentecostal church, and this is how I explain tongues to my youth.

First I would argue that YES there is tongues and it is for even the modern church. As it was not for a select few but for anyone. It is, in fact, evidence of the Holy Spirit coming upon you(but not the only evidence in my opinion). In Acts 2:4 we can see that everyone that was in the room on the day of Pentecost spoke in tongues Acts 2:4 "All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them." We can see in Acts 19 when Paul was in Ephesus he met some believers, and following Acts 2:38, he baptized them after their repentance in the name of Jesus, and following this the Holy Spirit came upon them and they spoke in tongues.

From these two instances, I would argue that YES tongues is important otherwise the Bible would not teach it. Second of all, YES there are demonic versions of speaking in tongues, the other side likes to trick us. This is why, even while I am Pentecostal, I am very very against these "Holy Ghost rallies" where they try to get as many people to speak tongues as possible because it opens this gate to other spirits interfering. I believe that the Holy Spirit will come upon us when we are sincere and we will speak in tongues when the Spirit gives us utterance, and it should not be manipulated or manufactured, which it sometimes is giving all those who speak in tongues a bad name.

Moving on with my argument, I would argue that there are two types of tongues, tongues that edify oneself and tongues that edify the church.

The first one is speaking in tongues to edify oneself, this is when someone is speaking in tongues, but there is no interpretation. Their Spirit is speaking with God only and is edifying their own Spirit but not those around them. We can see this is 1 Corinthians 4:14
"Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church." and in 1 Corinthians 14:23 "So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and inquirers or unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?" and finally 1 Corinthians 14: 27-28 "If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time and someone must interpret. If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God." From these verses, we can see that if we are to speak in tongues that will not have an interpretation we should do it to ourselves, not for the whole church to hear, because someone new may come in and be turned off because they may think we are crazy. So at the end of the day with this type, we must realize that we are only edifying ourselves not others.

The second one is speaking in tongues with interpretation. We can use the verses from the last section. If there is an interpretation then it alright for one to speak out in tongues. This is also one of the Spiritual gifts.

We must be careful because there are certainly Spiritual damage that can be inflicted if one does not have the right mindset heading in. If one goes in seeking Jesus they will find Him, but if they go seeking to simply find tongues or simply want the experience it is dangerous. That being said, from personal experience, I have spoken in tongues on maybe 5 occasions and every occasion I can say it follows the scriptures in that it has edifyed my Spirit, especially when my Spirit wanted to pour itself out to God and I was unable to find words for it, the Spirit took over and spoke for me.

Just wanted to through my two cents out there.

 

[GtrPkr]

It's not that He honored the Faith, as much as He knew beforehand He would answer your faith.

Several scriptures concerning it.


Then there is the case of who successfully argued with God:

God was going to kill the newly freed Hebrews over the golden calf but Moses interceded.
God was going to destroy sodom and ghomorrow 100% but Abraham interceded for Lot and his family
Mary asked Yeshua to turn water into wine but Yeshua said, it was not the time yet to perform miracles and such

Now, God knew beforehand He would honor these requests. But God still made it clear His intention.

He told Moses, I'm killing everyone
He told Abraham I'm killing everyone

But the Hebrew freed slaves and Lot's family lived (the wife lived but then disobeyed) after God said, I am going to kill them all!!

So, did God change His mind, honor their Faith, or this was just God making it seem one way knowing He would do it differently?

Lol... Nope, sorry, I can't go there with you my friend. We could speculate forever about the foolish conversations people have had with God over the years lol, but it will not change the dangerous precedent you are trying to set. Should we also March a gold box ahead of our armies killing everything in sight and stone our disobedient children? I don't know about you, but I can't speak for the mind of God. Our future has already been written in past tense.... do you believe you can change God's mind?

 

[VCO]

Unfortunately, I do not have the time to read every single one of the 64 pages on this. I do still want to put my two cents out there.

I am a youth leader at my church, a Pentecostal church, and this is how I explain tongues to my youth.

First I would argue that YES there is tongues and it is for even the modern church. As it was not for a select few but for anyone. It is, in fact, evidence of the Holy Spirit coming upon you(but not the only evidence in my opinion). In Acts 2:4 we can see that everyone that was in the room on the day of Pentecost spoke in tongues Acts 2:4 "All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them." We can see in Acts 19 when Paul was in Ephesus he met some believers, and following Acts 2:38, he baptized them after their repentance in the name of Jesus, and following this the Holy Spirit came upon them and they spoke in tongues.

From these two instances, I would argue that YES tongues is important otherwise the Bible would not teach it. Second of all, YES there are demonic versions of speaking in tongues, the other side likes to trick us. This is why, even while I am Pentecostal, I am very very against these "Holy Ghost rallies" where they try to get as many people to speak tongues as possible because it opens this gate to other spirits interfering. I believe that the Holy Spirit will come upon us when we are sincere and we will speak in tongues when the Spirit gives us utterance, and it should not be manipulated or manufactured, which it sometimes is giving all those who speak in tongues a bad name.

Moving on with my argument, I would argue that there are two types of tongues, tongues that edify oneself and tongues that edify the church.

The first one is speaking in tongues to edify oneself, this is when someone is speaking in tongues, but there is no interpretation. Their Spirit is speaking with God only and is edifying their own Spirit but not those around them. We can see this is 1 Corinthians 4:14
"Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church." and in 1 Corinthians 14:23 "So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and inquirers or unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?" and finally 1 Corinthians 14: 27-28 "If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time and someone must interpret. If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God." From these verses, we can see that if we are to speak in tongues that will not have an interpretation we should do it to ourselves, not for the whole church to hear, because someone new may come in and be turned off because they may think we are crazy. So at the end of the day with this type, we must realize that we are only edifying ourselves not others.

The second one is speaking in tongues with interpretation. We can use the verses from the last section. If there is an interpretation then it alright for one to speak out in tongues. This is also one of the Spiritual gifts.

We must be careful because there are certainly Spiritual damage that can be inflicted if one does not have the right mindset heading in. If one goes in seeking Jesus they will find Him, but if they go seeking to simply find tongues or simply want the experience it is dangerous. That being said, from personal experience, I have spoken in tongues on maybe 5 occasions and every occasion I can say it follows the scriptures in that it has edifyed my Spirit, especially when my Spirit wanted to pour itself out to God and I was unable to find words for it, the Spirit took over and spoke for me.

Just wanted to through my two cents out there.

It is the LEAST important of all spiritual things. How do I know ? Jews had a tradition when they listed the a LIST of things, they always Put the Most important first, and the put the least important Last.

1 Corinthians 12:28 (ESV)
28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.


That meant that it was MORE IMPORTANT to be gifted to be CHURCH SECRETARY, than to have the gift of tongues.

You are majoring on minors.

 

[jordh24]

It is the LEAST important of all spiritual things. How do I know ? Jews had a tradition when they listed the a LIST of things, they always Put the Most important first, and the put the least important Last.

1 Corinthians 12:28 (ESV)
28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.


That meant that it was MORE IMPORTANT to be gifted to be CHURCH SECRETARY, than to have the gift of tongues.

You are majoring on minors.

You are missing the point of the verses above, my friend. If you begin 1 Corinthians 12:12 down to verse 28, you will realize that you are missing the point. The church is meant to be a body, and if you look at 1 Corinthians 12 25-26 "so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. 26 If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it." You will see that every part of the body is equally important. In my opinion, viewing these verses we can see that tongues is equally important. While it may be true that the Jews put things in order of importance the verses before you verse you quote tend to show this is an exception. So we must view as it as an equal and not dismiss tongues nor put it above miracles, healing, ect.

 

[UnderGrace]

You are missing the point of the verses above, my friend. If you begin 1 Corinthians 12:12 down to verse 28, you will realize that you are missing the point. The church is meant to be a body, and if you look at 1 Corinthians 12 25-26 "so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. 26 If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it." You will see that every part of the body is equally important. In my opinion, viewing these verses we can see that tongues is equally important. While it may be true that the Jews put things in order of importance the verses before you verse you quote tend to show this is an exception. So we must view as it as an equal and not dismiss tongues nor put it above miracles, healing, ect.

Yes language is important, it is essential to communicate thereby edify each other.

 

[jordh24]

Yes language is important, it is essential to communicate thereby edify each other.

Exactly, tongues are important and need to be put in their place, and not be the sole purpose or center of one's faith, like it has unfortunately become for some. We must first focus on Jesus. If one only speaks in tongues of heavenly languages they are not helping others.

It has its place in the church. Balance is required.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Exactly, tongues are important and need to be put in their place, and not be the sole purpose or center of one's faith, like it has unfortunately become for some. We must first focus on Jesus. If one only speaks in tongues of heavenly languages they are not helping others.

It has its place in the church. Balance is required.

How are they helping anyone if no one (including the speaker) can understand what the tongue is communicating?

What is the purpose of communication between two people?

 

[UnderGrace]

Exactly, tongues are important and need to be put in their place, and not be the sole purpose or center of one's faith, like it has unfortunately become for some. We must first focus on Jesus. If one only speaks in tongues of heavenly languages they are not helping others.

It has its place in the church. Balance is required.

Tongue (glossa) translated means language or the physical tongue.

We all speak in a language, if two people speak the same language then the language is comprehensible to the hearer, if two people do not speak the same language then a translator is required.

 

[VCO]

Then one has to forgo having faith, to believe the gifts have ceased. So, when Yeshua told us it takes Faith to believe in Him, takes faith to believe you are Saved, takes faith to face the enemy, takes faith to heal, takes faith to remove a mountain, He was lying?

If there is no Faith in healing, raising the dead, speaking to cancer and it just disappears, then there should be no faith in believing in a God we have never seen, or the faith to believe we are sinners and need God's Salvation.

If the Gifts are done, then Faith must be done.
Therefore, since faith is no longer active, NONE OF US are Saved!!

Wow, you packed a LOT of things in short amount of space. So let me deal with them one at a time.

Apostolic SIGNS are separate from Congregational Spiritual Gifts.


2 Corinthians 12:12 (HCSB)
12 The signs of an apostle were performed with great endurance among you—not only signs but also wonders and miracles.


NOTICE THE TOTAL ABSENCE OF THE MIRACLES SIGNS in:

Romans 12:6-18 (HCSB)
6 According to the grace given to us, we have different gifts: If prophecy, use it according to the standard of one’s faith;
7 if service, in service; if teaching, in teaching;
8 if exhorting, in exhortation; giving, with generosity; leading, with diligence; showing mercy, with cheerfulness.
9 Love must be without hypocrisy. Detest evil; cling to what is good.
10 Show family affection to one another with brotherly love. Outdo one another in showing honor.
11 Do not lack diligence; be fervent in spirit; serve the Lord.
12 Rejoice in hope; be patient in affliction; be persistent in prayer.
13 Share with the saints in their needs; pursue hospitality.
14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.
15 Rejoice with those who rejoice; weep with those who weep.
16 Be in agreement with one another. Do not be proud; instead, associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own estimation.
17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Try to do what is honorable in everyone’s eyes.
18 If possible, on your part, live at peace with everyone.


THAT IS WHY, SIGNS OF AN APOSTLE, are NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH Congregational Spiritual Gifts.

AND YES there were people who had seen the RISEN LORD just prior to His Ascension, were members of Church at Corinth, therefore they were eligible to use the title apostle. You have to have seen the Risen Lord to be eligible to use the title apostle.

1 Corinthians 9:1 (NASB)
1 Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord?

2 Corinthians 11:5-6 (HCSB)
5 Now I consider myself in no way inferior to the “super-apostles”.
6 Though untrained in public speaking, I am certainly not ⌊untrained⌋ in knowledge.
Indeed, we have always made that clear to you in everything.


WHO DID THE MIRACLES OF THE APOSTLES?


Mark 16:20 (HCSB)
20 And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word by the accompanying signs.


WHO IS DOING THE MIRACLES THROUGH THE APOSTLES, THE LORD or THEMSELVES ? Miracles are called SIGNS, because they were a SIGN to UNBELIEVING JEWS, that the new Words the Apostles were teachings CAME FROM GOD.


1 Corinthians 1:22 (KJV)
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:


Faith to Move a Mountain is dealing with the BIGGEST MOUNTAIN that an Individual has to deal with. That is the MOUNTAIN OF SIN THAT SEPARATES US FROM GOD.


1 Corinthians 13:8 (HCSB)
8 Love never ends. But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for languages, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end.


Miraculous Signs come to an end, but NOT THE GIFTS. WHY ? ? ? You do not KEEP SHOWING SIGNS when ENOUGH WITNESSES HAVE SEEN THE SIGNS. Jesus gave as a SIGN of HIS RESURRECTION, that is His appearance to at least 500 witnesses at once. That is 100 times the Roman Law to be declared UNDENIABLE PROOF IN A ROMAN COURT.


1 Corinthians 15:6 (HCSB)
6 Then He appeared to over 500 brothers at one time; most of them are still alive, but some have fallen asleep.


Once Jesus Appeared to enough witnesses to Prove His RESURRECTION, HE CEASED the Appearances. He does not continuously show Himself to every new believer, showing the SIGN of his Resurrection. Therefore the SIGN that the new Testament is the WORD OF GOD, also CEASED.

PROOF THAT THE APOSTLES WERE NOT DELIBERATELY DOING THE MIRACLES, LIES IN THESE VERSES:

Acts 5:15-16 (HCSB)
15 As a result, they would carry the sick out into the streets and lay them on cots and mats so that when Peter came by, at least his shadow might fall on some of them.
16 In addition, a large group came together from the towns surrounding Jerusalem, bringing sick people and those who were tormented by unclean spirits, and they were all healed.


NOW WE ARE TO FOLLOW HIS INSTRUCTIONS:


James 5:14-16 (NKJV)
14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.
15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.
16 Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.


IF FAITH HEALERS HAD THE POWER FROM GOD, WHY ARE THOSE VERSES ABOVE EVEN IN THE BIBLE ? ? ?

WHY ARE YOU ALWAYS SEEKING A SUPPOSED FAITH HEALER ? ? ? Is your faith so weak that you will be disobedient TO THESE INSTRUCTIONS, in order to put FAITH in a supposed HEALER ? You ask any HONEST PASTOR that has been a part of a Genuine Healing, and he will tell you, it was in answer to PRAYER that he and the rest of the elders prayed for that Healing of that patient that was HEALED. Why would you NOT want GOD TO GET THE GLORY, and give that Glory to a so-called Faith Healer.

Many of those WHO WANT TO BELIEVE IN HEALERS, have not only ROBBED GOD OF HIS GLORY, but in the process, they may have Robbed themselves of Salvation.

 

[obedienttogod]

Lol... Nope, sorry, I can't go there with you my friend. We could speculate forever about the foolish conversations people have had with God over the years lol, but it will not change the dangerous precedent you are trying to set. Should we also March a gold box ahead of our armies killing everything in sight and stone our disobedient children? I don't know about you, but I can't speak for the mind of God. Our future has already been written in past tense.... do you believe you can change God's mind?

I am not trying to change anything. So no need for you to be alarmed. I just look at what Moses wrote concerning Abraham/God/Sodom and Ghomorrows, what Moses wrote about the golden calf/God/himself (Moses) and both times God said I am going to Destroy them all.

But in the end, After saying I am going to Destroy them all, NOT ALL was actually destroyed.

This is spot on prayer intercession by acting out in faith of the believer!!
Had not Abraham or Moses interceded with God, EVERY PERSON WOULD HAD BEEN DESTROYED, and that is just a FACT!!

This is why we have the same right as Abraham and Moses to intercede with God on behalf of others, in my opinon!!

 

[obedienttogod]

Wow, you packed a LOT of things in short amount of space. So let me deal with them one at a time.

Apostolic SIGNS are separate from Congregational Spiritual Gifts.


2 Corinthians 12:12 (HCSB)
12 The signs of an apostle were performed with great endurance among you—not only signs but also wonders and miracles.


NOTICE THE TOTAL ABSENCE OF THE MIRACLES SIGNS in:

Romans 12:6-18 (HCSB)
6 According to the grace given to us, we have different gifts: If prophecy, use it according to the standard of one’s faith;
7 if service, in service; if teaching, in teaching;
8 if exhorting, in exhortation; giving, with generosity; leading, with diligence; showing mercy, with cheerfulness.
9 Love must be without hypocrisy. Detest evil; cling to what is good.
10 Show family affection to one another with brotherly love. Outdo one another in showing honor.
11 Do not lack diligence; be fervent in spirit; serve the Lord.
12 Rejoice in hope; be patient in affliction; be persistent in prayer.
13 Share with the saints in their needs; pursue hospitality.
14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.
15 Rejoice with those who rejoice; weep with those who weep.
16 Be in agreement with one another. Do not be proud; instead, associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own estimation.
17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Try to do what is honorable in everyone’s eyes.
18 If possible, on your part, live at peace with everyone.


THAT IS WHY, SIGNS OF AN APOSTLE, are NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH Congregational Spiritual Gifts.

AND YES there were people who had seen the RISEN LORD just prior to His Ascension, were members of Church at Corinth, therefore they were eligible to use the title apostle. You have to have seen the Risen Lord to be eligible to use the title apostle.

1 Corinthians 9:1 (NASB)
1 Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord?

2 Corinthians 11:5-6 (HCSB)
5 Now I consider myself in no way inferior to the “super-apostles”.
6 Though untrained in public speaking, I am certainly not ⌊untrained⌋ in knowledge.
Indeed, we have always made that clear to you in everything.


WHO DID THE MIRACLES OF THE APOSTLES?


Mark 16:20 (HCSB)
20 And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word by the accompanying signs.


WHO IS DOING THE MIRACLES THROUGH THE APOSTLES, THE LORD or THEMSELVES ? Miracles are called SIGNS, because they were a SIGN to UNBELIEVING JEWS, that the new Words the Apostles were teachings CAME FROM GOD.


1 Corinthians 1:22 (KJV)
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:


Faith to Move a Mountain is dealing with the BIGGEST MOUNTAIN that an Individual has to deal with. That is the MOUNTAIN OF SIN THAT SEPARATES US FROM GOD.


1 Corinthians 13:8 (HCSB)
8 Love never ends. But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for languages, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end.


Miraculous Signs come to an end, but NOT THE GIFTS. WHY ? ? ? You do not KEEP SHOWING SIGNS when ENOUGH WITNESSES HAVE SEEN THE SIGNS. Jesus gave as a SIGN of HIS RESURRECTION, that is His appearance to at least 500 witnesses at once. That is 100 times the Roman Law to be declared UNDENIABLE PROOF IN A ROMAN COURT.


1 Corinthians 15:6 (HCSB)
6 Then He appeared to over 500 brothers at one time; most of them are still alive, but some have fallen asleep.


Once Jesus Appeared to enough witnesses to Prove His RESURRECTION, HE CEASED the Appearances. He does not continuously show Himself to every new believer, showing the SIGN of his Resurrection. Therefore the SIGN that the new Testament is the WORD OF GOD, also CEASED.

PROOF THAT THE APOSTLES WERE NOT DELIBERATELY DOING THE MIRACLES, LIES IN THESE VERSES:

Acts 5:15-16 (HCSB)
15 As a result, they would carry the sick out into the streets and lay them on cots and mats so that when Peter came by, at least his shadow might fall on some of them.
16 In addition, a large group came together from the towns surrounding Jerusalem, bringing sick people and those who were tormented by unclean spirits, and they were all healed.


NOW WE ARE TO FOLLOW HIS INSTRUCTIONS:


James 5:14-16 (NKJV)
14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.
15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.
16 Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.


IF FAITH HEALERS HAD THE POWER FROM GOD, WHY ARE THOSE VERSES ABOVE EVEN IN THE BIBLE ? ? ?

WHY ARE YOU ALWAYS SEEKING A SUPPOSED FAITH HEALER ? ? ? Is your faith so weak that you will be disobedient TO THESE INSTRUCTIONS, in order to put FAITH in a supposed HEALER ? You ask any HONEST PASTOR that has been a part of a Genuine Healing, and he will tell you, it was in answer to PRAYER that he and the rest of the elders prayed for that Healing of that patient that was HEALED. Why would you NOT want GOD TO GET THE GLORY, and give that Glory to a so-called Faith Healer.

Many of those WHO WANT TO BELIEVE IN HEALERS, have not only ROBBED GOD OF HIS GLORY, but in the process, they may have Robbed themselves of Salvation.

I love it, Brother!!

Excellent verse choice.


I do have a question, and it relates to the post of mine you quoted and answered


in 107 A.D. a man named Polycarp, who most denominations today preach was a Disciple of the last Apostle John the Beloved. There are numerous examples that show Polycarp in the same vicinity as John on multiple occasions (like we have the original Disciples in the same vicinity with Yeshua through His Ministry before His Death-Burial-Resurrection).

Anyway, Polycarp, a renowned known Disciple of the Beloved Disciple/Apostle John, instructed his own Disciples, that the Gifts of the Holy Spirit had not ceased and were alive and will continue to be alive until Yeshua returns (that which is PERFECT).


Here are some examples of his (Polycarp) writings and from one of his own Disciples:


107 A.D.
Polycarp (A.D. 70-155), who was himself a disciple of the Apostle John, wrote: "in like manner do we also hear many brethren in the Church who possess prophetic gifts, and who through the Spirit speak all kinds of languages, and bring to light for the general benefit the hidden things of men and declare the mysteries of God, whom also the apostle terms 'spiritual', they being spiritual because they partake of the Spirit".

Apostle John admonished Polycarp to pray so that he might "be wanting in nothing, and... abound in every gift."


Here are some effects to this later on:

110 A.D.
Justin Martyr wrote, "For the prophetical gifts remain with us, even to the present time... Now it is possible to see amongst us women and men who possess gifts of the Spirit of God."

150 A.D.
Irenaeus (A.D. 115 to 202) a pupil of Polycarp (Disciple of the Apostle John) wrote: who have received the Spirit of God, and who through the Spirit of God do speak in all languages, as he used [h]imself also to speak. In like manner we do also hear many brethren in the Church, who possess prophetic gifts, and who through the Spirit speak all kinds of languages...





The list continues with example after example the lineage of the Apostle John (Discipes) were believing ALL GIFTS WERE ACTIVE, NONE HAD CEASED, AND THEY SHOULD CONTINUE TILL CHRIST RETURNS.



If these writings are FACTUAL, then anyone believing the Gifts are no longer active, are reading into scripture and creating their own interpretations!!

 

[jordh24]

How are they helping anyone if no one (including the speaker) can understand what the tongue is communicating?

What is the purpose of communication between two people?

It is edifying because you still understand what you are communicating, you just are not articulating the words you are speaking rather the Spirit is doing it for you. When I speak in tongues I still understand what I am communicating. It helps only me and God, no one else and that is why I do not speak in tongues when I am praying with someone of in front of people because it does not edify other people. When I am praying between myself and God sometimes my Spirit will articulate my outpouring.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It is edifying because you still understand what you are communicating, you just are not articulating the words you are speaking rather the Spirit is doing it for you. When I speak in tongues I still understand what I am communicating. It helps only me and God, no one else and that is why I do not speak in tongues when I am praying with someone of in front of people because it does not edify other people. When I am praying between myself and God sometimes my Spirit will articulate my outpouring.

So you understand? That is not what others have said,

And how is that different than say when I speak to God in my own language and we see Gods answer?

 

[jordh24]

Tongue (glossa) translated means language or the physical tongue.

We all speak in a language, if two people speak the same language then the language is comprehensible to the hearer, if two people do not speak the same language then a translator is required.

Exactly, that's why when God sends a message to his church through tongues there is an interpretation. If there is simply tongues it is God and the person in tongues spirit who are speaking together

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Exactly, that's why when God sends a message to his church through tongues there is an interpretation. If there is simply tongues it is God and the person in tongues spirit who are speaking together

what kind of message does God send?

 

[jordh24]

So you understand? That is not what others have said,

And how is that different than say when I speak to God in my own language and we see Gods answer?

I have a basic understanding of what my tongues are saying. For instance, my soul has mourned for those who are not saved, I ended up speaking in tongues and I knew my spirit was pouring itself out to God about those who are not saved. I was still aware of what was going on.

It is different because the Spirit speaks. Have you never been praying and you have no words? The Spirit essentially speaks for you.

At the end of the day, is it a heaven or hell issue? No.

 

[VCO]

Exactly, tongues are important and need to be put in their place, and not be the sole purpose or center of one's faith, like it has unfortunately become for some. We must first focus on Jesus. If one only speaks in tongues of heavenly languages they are not helping others.

It has its place in the church. Balance is required.

The only reason I clicked on Informative, is an eye opener to the way you think.

I doubt if you know, but in the worship of Apollo, the Pagan Priests used to teach their followers to pray tongues as far back as 400 years before Pentecost after the LORD's Ascension in this exact manor:

If you say batta, batta, batta over and over again, AS FAST AS YOU CAN, the gods will turn it into a heavenly language that only they can understand.

Sounds familiar, doesn't it. Even Plato called it DIVINE FRENZY.

Our LORD even referred to it:


Matthew 6:7 (NIV)
7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling [battalogeo - babbling words] like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have a basic understanding of what my tongues are saying. For instance, my soul has mourned for those who are not saved, I ended up speaking in tongues and I knew my spirit was pouring itself out to God about those who are not saved. I was still aware of what was going on.

It is different because the Spirit speaks. Have you never been praying and you have no words? The Spirit essentially speaks for you.

At the end of the day, is it a heaven or hell issue? No.

So in reality you do not know what your saying. You just guess that is what is happening.

So again I ask. what is different between that of an unknown what is happening. And me speaking in english about the unsaved, and seeing some unsaved get saved?

 

[jordh24]

what kind of message does God send?

In services I have been in, there has been tongues and interpretation where someone in the congregation needs to hear from God. He will speak to the church through tongues and interpretation. A similar thing has happened to me. I was praying by myself at the back of my church. When I was younger I felt I was called by God, but was feeling unsure. So I prayed at the back of my church that God would give me some sort of sign that it was true what I felt. God spoke to my pastor in this way and in front of the congregation spoke what message had been sent to the congregation that someone in the congregation was called to ministry and not to be afraid. Which was what exactly I had prayed for. So God does use it to speak to people.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In services I have been in, there has been tongues and interpretation where someone in the congregation needs to hear from God. He will speak to the church through tongues and interpretation. A similar thing has happened to me. I was praying by myself at the back of my church. When I was younger I felt I was called by God, but was feeling unsure. So I prayed at the back of my church that God would give me some sort of sign that it was true what I felt. God spoke to my pastor in this way and in front of the congregation spoke what message had been sent to the congregation that someone in the congregation was called to ministry and not to be afraid. Which was what exactly I had prayed for. So God does use it to speak to people.

This does not make any sense, I have seen things like this with no tongues speaking, In fact it has happened in my life..