Amillennialists...Here's a chance to state your case.

[Melach]

Me

are you amill? what church do you go to? rare for baptists to be that.

Has an Amill person been in here yet?

Has crossnotes question been answered?

i answered his question and asked if he has more questions.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

are you amill? what church do you go to? rare for baptists to be that.
i answered his question and asked if he has more questions.

Are you amill?

 

[Melach]

Are you amill?

not now, i know the system well enough to answer basic questions about it.

if all we had was matthew 25:31-46 everyone would be amil.

but we got other verses that need to be taken itno account. their reading of revelation 20 is extremely weak in my view. the first resurrection is spiritual and second is bodily resurrection of all. the problem with this is: when it says "Rest of the dead lived not until.."

so think of it : if the first resurrection is spiritual, believers only, the rest of the dead will not live again until after the millennium. this clearly ties it as a physical resurrection, unless we believe the lost get a spiritual resurrection at the end too?

thats why i was forced to premillennialism, that and satan doesnt seem bound at all lolz.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

not now, i know the system well enough to answer basic questions about it.

if all we had was matthew 25:31-46 everyone would be amil.

but we got other verses that need to be taken itno account. their reading of revelation 20 is extremely weak in my view. the first resurrection is spiritual and second is bodily resurrection of all. the problem with this is: when it says "Rest of the dead lived not until.."

so think of it : if the first resurrection is spiritual, believers only, the rest of the dead will not live again until after the millennium. this clearly ties it as a physical resurrection, unless we believe the lost get a spiritual resurrection at the end too?

thats why i was forced to premillennialism, that and satan doesnt seem bound at all lolz.

Thats cool. But he asked Amills to respond..lol not what you and I think they believe..lol

That was my point

 

[Melach]

Thats cool. But he asked Amills to respond..lol not what you and I think they believe..lol

That was my point

to be fair, im not trying to misrepresent them. not many amils on this forum so i decided to answer because i know what they believe in this question. i learned their answer from listening to a man called Kim riddlebarger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

to be fair, im not trying to misrepresent them. not many amils on this forum so i decided to answer because i know what they believe in this question. i learned their answer from listening to a man called Kim riddlebarger

Its all good bro.

But I think Crossnote wanted to have a conversation with some of them

 

[crossnote]

but we got other verses that need to be taken itno account. their reading of revelation 20 is extremely weak in my view. the first resurrection is spiritual and second is bodily resurrection of all. the problem with this is: when it says "Rest of the dead lived not until.."

As well as scores of passages, from the Jewish Prophets, pointing to a future physical Kingdom here on earth.

 

[UnderGrace]

As well as scores of passages, from the Jewish Prophets, pointing to a future physical Kingdom here on earth.

Since I am on my nap time as cats often are...can you elaborate?

 

[Journeyman]

not now, i know the system well enough to answer basic questions about it.

if all we had was matthew 25:31-46 everyone would be amil.

but we got other verses that need to be taken itno account. their reading of revelation 20 is extremely weak in my view. the first resurrection is spiritual and second is bodily resurrection of all. the problem with this is: when it says "Rest of the dead lived not until.."

so think of it : if the first resurrection is spiritual, believers only, the rest of the dead will not live again until after the millennium. this clearly ties it as a physical resurrection, unless we believe the lost get a spiritual resurrection at the end too?

thats why i was forced to premillennialism, that and satan doesnt seem bound at all lolz.

 

[Journeyman]

not now, i know the system well enough to answer basic questions about it.

if all we had was matthew 25:31-46 everyone would be amil.

but we got other verses that need to be taken itno account. their reading of revelation 20 is extremely weak in my view. the first resurrection is spiritual and second is bodily resurrection of all. the problem with this is: when it says "Rest of the dead lived not until.."

so think of it : if the first resurrection is spiritual, believers only, the rest of the dead will not live again until after the millennium. this clearly ties it as a physical resurrection, unless we believe the lost get a spiritual resurrection at the end too?

Or the saved get a body too.

thats why i was forced to premillennialism, that and satan doesnt seem bound at all lolz.

Many "believers" see no difference between themselves and the unsaved.

 

[garee]

Some how I missed your answer, can you try again?

"For those who hold to an Amillennial position, (usually stated as an indefinite amount of time starting from the cross to Christ's return), who are those in v.4 and are they reigning now with Christ?
Who are those in v.5 (rest of the dead)?
Which of these two is the 'first resurrection'? Both? "

Calvin's dead.

I seem to lean more towards the Amil position .Which within has its own differences of fingerprints. I would offer as it seems its not so much that we do have a differences in our thinking as the outcome (same Christ)..different end timing. The bible says there must be a differences between us so that we can seek after the approval of God not seen. Not a salvation issue as if we did wrestle against flesh and blood.

But why do some literalize when the instructions call for signifying what they see do with their eyes the temporal as natural man ? That would seem to be a problem right from the start. How do we hear God through the signature as His speech and not man.? Jesus said; my sheep hear my voice in that way . I would think it would apply . when looking at that parable in Revelation 20

I will use Orange text as focal point I am trying to establish.


Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV)1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Or he sent it an "interpreted it" (signified) .

Many, I beleive miss the pearls of opportunity because they confuse the kind of language God uses. (called signified) the language of parables, hiding the spiritual understanding from natural man. They prove they walk by sight in respect to the things seen ( literalizing ) and do not search out the spiritual understanding or as those described in Hebrew 4. They do not mix faith when dividing the understanding of parable which without parables Christ spoke not. The meaning are hid from them who have no desire to search it out . Does it mean every blade of grass has a hidden meaning attached .No it simply means without parables Christ spoke not.

While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal. 2 Corinthians 4:18

The word thousand if used in that way through out the scriptures to represent a unknow whatsoever is in view , The last days began at the time of reformation .The beginning of the first resurrection we are in that working toward the last day the end of the world the end of time.. We that are reigning with Christ have been since that time almost a literal 2 thousand years

Using what I call the 20 /20 prescription for the signified language or tongue of God(2 Corinthians 4:18) I will highlight in the orange the metaphors used in that parable.

.And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.Revelation 20:6-7

If we take the word "key" as that temporarily seen, and from that look to the unseen eternal understanding using the prescription given us in 2 Corinthians 4 it would seem it represents the eternal gospel . A chain as that seen the temporal signifying the binding power of the gospel, bottomless pit no end in sight.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Dragon. serpent = the father of lies.

And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.Revelation 20:4-5

The rest of the dead are us as the body of Christ who are reigning with Christ when he destroys this present world. And the new glorious creation comes into view the former things of this earth will not be remembered or ever come to mind forever more.

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, Revelation 20:6-7

The parable of Revelation 20 is simply giving us another way to look at that which has already come to pass in the previous chapter (cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. ) . two types of literature like that of Genesis 1 and 2.


And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.Revelation 19:20 21

One casting into the lake of fire the last day.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Since I am on my nap time as cats often are...can you elaborate?

There are alot

Prety much all prophets spoke of these things

 

[crossnote]

Prophecies of the Major Prophets About the Millennium
Jeremiah pictures the Millennium as a time when Israel and Judah will be united in peace, and the city of Jerusalem will be called “The Throne of the Lord” (Jeremiah 3:17-18). Jesus, “the righteous Branch,” will “reign as king and act wisely and do justice and righteousness in the land” (Jeremiah 23:5). And because of His new role as king, the name of Jesus will be changed to Yahweh-Tsidkenu, meaning, “The Lord is our righteousness” (Jeremiah 23:6).

David, in his glorified body, will serve as the king of Israel (Jeremiah 30:9), and all the enemies of Israel will be destroyed (Jeremiah 30:11). The city of Jerusalem and the Temple will be rebuilt (Jeremiah 30:18), and the population will be multiplied (Jeremiah 30:19). The mourning of the Jewish people will be turned into joy (Jeremiah 31:13).

The Jewish people will repent of the rejection of their Messiah and will enter into a new covenant with God that will be written on their hearts (Jeremiah 31:31-34 and 32:37-40). The streets of Jerusalem will be filled with “the voice of joy and the voice of gladness…”(Jeremiah 33:11).


Ezekiel confirms that the Jewish people will enter into a new covenant with God that will be written on their hearts (Ezekiel 11:19-20 and 16:60-62). He also confirms that the Lord will guarantee their security and will “execute judgments upon all who scorn them round about them” (Ezekiel 28:26). The land of Egypt will be particularly punished for its treatment of Israel and will remain a desolation during the first 40 years of the Millennium (Ezekiel 29:9-16).

Ezekiel also confirms that David will be made king of Israel (Ezekiel 34:23-24 and 37:24). The Lord will pour out “showers of blessings” on Israel, including agricultural abundance (Ezekiel 34:26-29) and the rebuilding of their Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-27). The result is that the Lord’s glory will be set among the nations (Ezekiel 39:21).

From chapter 40 through chapter 46, Ezekiel focuses on describing the Millennial Temple. It is much larger than any of the previous Jewish temples, and the Holy of Holies in the Temple contains no ark. Jeremiah had already prophesied that the ark would not be rebuilt or remembered (Jeremiah 3:16).

One of Ezekiel’s end time prophecies that has already been fulfilled relates to the Eastern Gate. He says it will be shut up and will not be reopened until the Messiah returns (Ezekiel 44:1-3). The gate was closed in the 1500’s and remains closed to this day.

Ezekiel reveals that part of the redemption of nature will be the conversion of the Dead Sea into a sea of fresh water (Ezekiel 47:8-9). He concludes his book by telling how the redeemed and greatly expanded land of Israel will be divided among the 12 tribes (Ezekiel 48).

Daniel’s end time prophecies focus on the Tribulation and the Antichrist. His first mention of the Millennium occurs in chapter 2 where he interprets the dream of Nebuchadnezzar about the sequence of Gentile empires. He reveals that the last Gentile empire will be destroyed by the return of the Messiah and the establishment of His kingdom “which will never be destroyed” (Daniel 2:44-45).

In chapter 7, Daniel emphasizes that the Redeemed will reign with the Messiah: “Then the sovereignty, the dominion, and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints of the Highest One…” (Daniel 7:27). Daniel concludes his book by indicating there will be an interregnum of 75 days between the time of the Lord’s return and the establishment of His worldwide government (Daniel 12:11-12). This is most likely the period of time when the Messiah will judge all those left alive at the end of the Tribulation to determine whether or not they will enter the Millennium in the flesh. This time period will also likely be used to organize the Messiah’s government, part of which will be to make governing assignments to the Redeemed who will be in glorified bodies.

Prophecies of the Minor Prophets About the Millennium
Hosea talks about how God will use the Millennium to fulfill all the promises He has made to the Jewish people (Hosea 1:10-11, 2:14-20, and 14:4-7).

He confirms that God will establish peace in the animal kingdom and peace between the nations (Hosea 2:18). And he makes it clear that God’s blessings will also be poured out on the Gentiles (Hosea 2:23).

Hosea’s most fascinating prophecy has to do with the timing of the Lord’s return. He indicates that it will be “two days” after His ascension into Heaven (Hosea 5:15 – 6:2). The context of the passage indicates that the two days represent 2,000 years. Hosea says that after the two days, the Messiah “will raise us up” (the resurrection) that “we may live before Him” for “the third day” (the 1,000 years of the Millennium).

Joel’s end time prophecies focus mainly on “the day of the Lord” which, in his context, is the day of the Messiah’s Second Coming (Joel 1:15, 2:1,13 and 3:14). But he does give us a glimpse of the Millennium when he states that when the Messiah returns, He will dwell “in Zion, My holy mountain” and that Jerusalem will be characterized by holiness (Joel 3:17,21). He also confirms that the land will be revitalized for great agricultural production: “The mountains will drip with sweet wine, and the hills will flow with milk, and all the brooks of Judah will flow with water” (Joel 3:18). He also affirms that Egypt will be a desolation (Joel 3:19).

Amos presents a picture of the Messiah returning as a roaring lion (Amos 1:2). The only thing he has to say about the Millennium is that it will be characterized by agricultural abundance (Amos 9:14) — so much so that “the plowman will overtake the reaper” (Amos 9:13).

Obadiah’s only significant comment about the Millennium is his statement that it will be characterized by holiness (Obadiah 17).

Jonah has nothing to say about the Millennium.

Micah begins his prophecy with a vision of the Second Coming (Micah 1:3-4). Regarding the Millennium, Micah presents a glorious vision of it and does so in words that are almost identical with Isaiah’s (Micah 4:1-7 and Isaiah 2:2-4). He emphasizes the peace and prosperity that will characterize the Millennium (Micah 4:3-4). He also underlines the promise of God that He will make the Jewish people the primary nation of the world during the Millennium (Micah 4:6-7).

Nahum echoes Joel by focusing his prophecies on “the day of the Lord” (Nahum 1:1-8). The only thing he has to say with regard to the Millennium is that the Jewish people will enjoy perfect peace (Nahum 1:15) and the splendor of their nation will be restored (Nahum 2:2).

Habakkuk begins his book by assuring the reader that God will be faithful to send the Messiah back “at the appointed time” (Habakkuk 2:3). He follows that by presenting a very dramatic vision of the Second Coming (Habakkuk 3:3-13). He does not have anything to say about the Millennium.

Zephaniah begins his book by presenting a powerful and frightening vision about the Second Coming (Zephaniah 1:14-18). He concludes his book with a brief prophecy about the Millennium (Zephaniah 3:14-20). He reveals that the Lord will regather all believing Jews back to the land of Israel and that He will live in their midst (Zephaniah 3:17-20). And he promises that God will make the Jewish nation the prime nation of the world (Zephaniah 3:20).

Haggai asserts that at the time of the Second Coming, God will shake the heavens and earth (Haggai 2:6-7), overthrowing all Gentile kingdoms (Haggai 2:22). The wealth of the nations will be transferred to Jerusalem, and the Temple will be rebuilt in glory (Haggai 2:7). And then, using Zerubbabel, the governor of Judah, as a prophetic type of the Messiah, Haggai says that God will give him His “signet ring” — meaning that he will become the King of kings and Lord of lords (Haggai 2:23).

Zechariah says that the Lord “will return to Jerusalem” and will rebuild the Temple (Zechariah 1:16). He calls upon the Jewish people to “sing for joy and be glad” because the Lord has told him that “I am coming and I will dwell in your midst” (Zechariah 2:10).

Concerning the nature of the Lord’s reign, Zechariah says He will be “a priest on His throne,” confirming that the government will be a theocracy (Zechariah 6:12-13). The city of Jerusalem will be called “The City of Truth” and “The Holy Mountain” (Zechariah 8:3). Believing Jews will be regathered from all over the world (Zechariah 9:14-17), and the population of Jerusalem will live in peace and prosperity (Zechariah 8:8,12). The Jewish people will be so greatly blessed that when a Jew walks by, ten Gentiles will grab his robe and say, “Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you” (Zechariah 8:23).

Zechariah further states that during the Millennium, all the nations of the world will be required to send delegations to Jerusalem to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles (Zechariah 14:16). Those nations that fail to do so will receive no rain (Zechariah 14:17-18).

Zechariah concludes his book by emphasizing the holiness that will abound during the Millennium. He says that the bells on the horses’ bridles will be engraved with the words, “Holy to the Lord” (Zechariah 14:20-21).

Malachi contains several passages about the Second Coming, but the only thing it says about the Millennium is that the name of the Lord “will be great among the nations”(Malachi 1:11).

https://christinprophecy.org/articles/the-millennium-in-the-old-testament/

 

[eternally-gratefull]

last post

Is this a typo? Your whole post went inside the quotes.

 

[UnderGrace]

I guess I better wake up!

 

[crossnote]

But why do some literalize when the instructions call for signifying what they see do with their eyes the temporal as natural man ? That would seem to be a problem right from the start.

Actually it is easy for the natural man to spiritualize things. It's hard for him to believe the prophecies will literally come to pass, just as they did with Jesus' first coming. Why would His second Coming all of a sudden require a 'spiritual' fulfillment? Once you go down the allegorical/spiritual track there is no telling where that train will end up.
It's ike each Easter season we hear, "He has risen in our hearts!" No He hasn't, that's spiritualizing nonsense for the theological libs. He has risen bodily from the grave! (literally...but the natural man has a hard time accepting that physical fact.)

 

[UnderGrace]

There are alot

Prety much all prophets spoke of these things

Of course they did, that however does not mean it is a literal thousand year reign.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Of course they did, that however does not mean it is a literal thousand year reign.

So the things God said WILL HAPPEN. Is not going to happen?

 

[crossnote]

Is this a typo? Your whole post went inside the quotes.

probably, I'm trying to wax the car and this too lol

 

[eternally-gratefull]

probably, I'm trying to wax the car and this too lol

Need to repost it again, It is all within quotes