Faith/Works...How much faith? How much works?

[FollowHisSteps]

If you do not think that is being judgmental. Well I guess that explains alot.
When you go out judging certain sins, and saying those people are doomed, Yet not judge your own sin, and claim because of them you are doomed, that is considering yourself righteous. When you claim people like me excuse our sin, That just makes yourself look more righteous. Because everyone that knows us knows what we think about personal sin. Not just the big ones, but all of them.. and t is NOT what you keep saying it is.
Then why can’t you get what I believe right? If you got your view of me based on my words. You could at least figure out what I believe, I have yet to see any evidence of that. What I see is you calling me baptist and trying to attribute baptists belief to me (by the way do you realize that there are MANY types of baptists. And not all believe the same?
More judgment, More denial. More self righteousness..
D-con is his own man, he can do whatever he wants, I do not even have 100% agreement with him. Further proof you think things which are not true
One thing we do have in common, is fighting legalism, Fighting those who preach a false gosel fo works (whether they admit it or not)
Since that seems to be your modus operandi. You can expect to get confronted with many people. Not just us two. Especially when you make denial posts like this (deny you are doing anything when even in this post you are!)
My view that ALL sin seperates us from God where we stand, That if we keep the WHOLE law yet fall in one point we are guilty of all. That if we even know to do wrong yet do not do it, we are by righteous judgment of god imposed the death penalty? Thats troubling? The view that whoever lives in sin has never seen or known God, whoever is born of God can nto sin> Thats troubling?
Oh thats right, You have UTTERLY NO IDEA what I believe. You THINK you know what I believe so your judging ME based on an assumption
Thanks man, That is really Christlike.
Your view that your sin does not stink, it is somehow ok, but these particualar sins and those who commit them are doomed for eternity is troubling, You water down the law. You think you can have all your sins because they are not so bad, And as long as you do not commit these “grave” sins your ok, is not only dangerous, it is self righteous.
So tell me, When are you going to actually listen to what I say I believe and stop trying to tell me what I believe?
You may not be them, But you act just like them
Go ahead and dust your feet. I will continue to expose your LIES against me and those who believe as I do. And your gospel of works.
News flash dude, If you continue to tell a person they believe things which they do not.. instead of just sticking to what the word says, you are doing what many do, and trying to attack ones character because you can not attack their gospel.

A lot of words here - some highlights -
You have UTTERLY NO IDEA what I believe
fighting legalism

What is ironic, if after reams of posts one cannot express what one is believing or putting
ones points clearly enough for the other party to understand ones position, it is a waste of time.
It is obvious what the word says, follow Gods will, and His will is that we walk in His ways, obeying
His commands. Do you agree or rebel against God?

Is fighting legalism meaning sinning, not obeying Gods commands?

 

[FollowHisSteps]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_grace_theology

Free Grace theology is quite simple in its beliefs.
Orthodox faith is equally not that difficult to understand.

If one could focus on the differences and discuss why we take these different positions,
that would be helpful.

I have in time sometimes felt that love will conquer all barriers and boundaries in everyones
heart. That this love is inevitable. I now see this is an emotional optimism that does not
see the damage done when people rebel and harden their hearts, so love cannot touch them.

You can hear it in the tone and dismissive nature of some.
So are there truly good people and good acts possible.

Is the washing of Jesus's feet a good act or just a way of earning salvation?
Loving ones neighbour was given as the fulfilment of the law, which Jesus gave the good
Samaritan as its best example of this. Is this what good means?

29 "And who is my neighbor?"
30 In reply Jesus said: "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into
the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead.
31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side.
32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side.
33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him.
34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man
on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him.
35 The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper. 'Look after him,'
he said, 'and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.'
36 "Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?"
37 The expert in the law replied, "The one who had mercy on him." Jesus told him, "Go and do likewise."
Luke 10

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Go ahead and dust your feet. I will continue to expose your LIES against me and those who believe as I do. And your gospel of works.

The above phrase sounds like a line from "terminator" lol
Now is this the liquid terminator or just the robot.....

 

[Guojing]

"different beliefs about whether you need to confess sins regularly."

Here is a fundamental lack of experience of what sin is. Sin destroys, it kills, it breaks relationships,
it is death, there is no compromise possible with it, it is our enemy, of every living thing.

If you had cyanide in the house, that would kill you if you touched and eat something you would
clean your house top to bottom until it was all gone. That is how our hearts in Christ are.

19 Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness
2 Tim 2

Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children and live a life of love, just as Christ loved
us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or
of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people.
Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving.
For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person--such a man is an idolater--
has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Ephesians 5:1-5

We are all against sin here. But are you saying that only by remembering and confessing every sin we might have thought of and done, is the way out of sin?

Do you even do that?

 

[gb9]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_grace_theology

Free Grace theology is quite simple in its beliefs.
Orthodox faith is equally not that difficult to understand.

If one could focus on the differences and discuss why we take these different positions,
that would be helpful.

I have in time sometimes felt that love will conquer all barriers and boundaries in everyones
heart. That this love is inevitable. I now see this is an emotional optimism that does not
see the damage done when people rebel and harden their hearts, so love cannot touch them.

You can hear it in the tone and dismissive nature of some.
So are there truly good people and good acts possible.

Is the washing of Jesus's feet a good act or just a way of earning salvation?
Loving ones neighbour was given as the fulfilment of the law, which Jesus gave the good
Samaritan as its best example of this. Is this what good means?

29 "And who is my neighbor?"
30 In reply Jesus said: "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into
the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead.
31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side.
32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side.
33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him.
34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man
on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him.
35 The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper. 'Look after him,'
he said, 'and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.'
36 "Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?"
37 The expert in the law replied, "The one who had mercy on him." Jesus told him, "Go and do likewise."
Luke 10

if grace is not free, it is not grace.

there is one way into the Kingdom- faith and trust in Jesus. there is no other way.

you and your silly church and it's silly and fraud of a creed are full of man-made opinion and deception. I stand against it and you and anything like it because it is a lie.

you are offering another way. there is no other way. it is either you completely, 100% trust Jesus, and accept His righteousness , or you stand on your own merit.

your way of Jesus being Lord, King, and but not Savior is a lie.

and, do not forget, you reject the actual Biblical definition of sin, and just make up your own. you have listed sin as being a half dozen different things over the past couple of weeks. I have not changed my stance, because my stance is the truth. it is the definition of the word sin.

all praise to Jesus, Lord and Savior, none to me , a sinner in need of a perfect Savior.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

if grace is not free, it is not grace.
there is one way into the Kingdom- faith and trust in Jesus. there is no other way.
you and your silly church and it's silly and fraud of a creed are full of man-made opinion and deception. I stand against it and you and anything like it because it is a lie.
you are offering another way. there is no other way. it is either you completely, 100% trust Jesus, and accept His righteousness , or you stand on your own merit.
your way of Jesus being Lord, King, and but not Savior is a lie.
and, do not forget, you reject the actual Biblical definition of sin, and just make up your own. you have listed sin as being a half dozen different things over the past couple of weeks. I have not changed my stance, because my stance is the truth. it is the definition of the word sin.
all praise to Jesus, Lord and Savior, none to me , a sinner in need of a perfect Savior.

We stand simply on faith in the Jesus and cross for the forgiveness of our sins. And because
we are forgiven and washed clean we can walk like Jesus did.

Jesus is our saviour and Lord. And sin is defined by God through His word and our conscience
responding to the Holy Spirit. Listen to what God says about us

33 I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,'
because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD.
"For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."
Jer 31

Maybe the truth is we are Gods people because we know His law in us, while others are
lost and flounder because they have no foundation in Him.

It maybe what we see here is merely testimony to this spiritual reality. God bless you

 

[FollowHisSteps]

We are all against sin here. But are you saying that only by remembering and confessing every sin we might have thought of and done, is the way out of sin?
Do you even do that?

Every sin? How badly are you sinning? Is sin something you do every minute, hour, day, month?
Paul said this about his behaviour

5 in regard to the law, a Pharisee;
6 as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for legalistic righteousness, faultless.
Phil 3

ocd sin is not sin but self condemnation. And random thoughts are not sin,
equally much of life is just living, expressing our needs, our aspirations and
interacting as we need to.

One can become consumed with failure and being rejected rather than seeing opportunities
to bless, serve and lift others up. The church often is filled with people obsessed with rejection
and not service, because they have not truly met Jesus and His all encompassing love.

 

[mailmandan]

Share with me your gospel so i can be saved. Please brother. Share your gospel that saved you... do me the honors

The gospel is the “good news” of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). To “believe” the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

The gospel is the “good news” of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). To “believe” the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

Are you including the 3 righeousness's?

3 righteous behaviours
1. Faith righteousness
2. Heart righteousness
3. Action righteousness

We are saved by faith, which cleanses and purifies our heart which is shown in our behaviour.
FHA righteousness

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We are all against sin here. But are you saying that only by remembering and confessing every sin we might have thought of and done, is the way out of sin?

Do you even do that?

Not sure who. But if they say they do, If they say the CAN even do that. I would throw up red flags. It would be impossible to remember or even know every sin we commit.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The gospel is the “good news” of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). To “believe” the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

Amen, For by grace we have been saved. And not by our good deeds. But by Gods mercy through the washing and new birth of the Holy Spirit

 

[Melach]

Not sure who. But if they say they do, If they say the CAN even do that. I would throw up red flags. It would be impossible to remember or even know every sin we commit.

thats why i just say "all sins".

 

[eternally-gratefull]

thats why i just say "all sins".

You will find that some do not consider all sins to even be sin like we do..

 

[FollowHisSteps]

1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,
2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man,
4 in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
Rom 8

So many claim the promises of living in Christ and walking His ways while
rebelling against His ways, staying in unconfessed sin and not walking as
a result in the Spirit.

Unless the heart is purified it is all in vain, one is doomed to hell.
And this is not because of judgement, but because sin destroys everything
it touches, yet the godless have no clue, and think sin is just odd problems
in behaviour which God can simply iron out.

The heart of the wicked is plain

1 An oracle is within my heart concerning the sinfulness of the wicked: There is no fear of God before his eyes.
2 For in his own eyes he flatters himself too much to detect or hate his sin.
3 The words of his mouth are wicked and deceitful; he has ceased to be wise and to do good.
4 Even on his bed he plots evil; he commits himself to a sinful course and does not reject what is wrong.
5 Your love, O LORD, reaches to the heavens, your faithfulness to the skies.
6 Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your justice like the great deep. O LORD, you preserve both man and beast.
7 How priceless is your unfailing love! Both high and low among men find refuge in the shadow of your wings.
8 They feast on the abundance of your house; you give them drink from your river of delights.
9 For with you is the fountain of life; in your light we see light.
10 Continue your love to those who know you, your righteousness to the upright in heart.
Psalm 36

 

[Jimbone]

So how much works and how much faith is needed?

I believe the question is flawed from the get go, and completely approaches a spiritual truth from a fleshly perspective. When you start asking "how much" you've already missed the boat. "How much", is a question of measure and that's not what being reborn is, at all. See a lost soul can go and do measurable good deeds, and still hate God openly. While a less capable believer may not even have the means to do many works at all, yet spends every waking breath longing to do so and taking every opportunity to do so. God can not be put into a vial, or mathematical formula. God transcends these things, and that is why He tells us that the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, because these things are only learned by direct revelation (as in a message, or "good news" if you will) because they can not be learned in the flesh (or by "law"). This is why I have such a problem (as in clash of ideas, not like a problem with them personally) with people when I say that works are the evidence of ones salvation, and their first comeback is this, "well how many works keep you saved?, and what about non-Christians that do good things, are they saved?". These things are coming so far away from what I'm trying to say that it's hard sometimes to understand where my communication is breaking down.

When I say that "as a result of" salvation. This means AFTER God gifted me with salvation that I not only didn't deserve, but actually deserved the "exact opposite of", this means that by Gods grace and no work at all. Was dead in my sin and completely incapable of doing ANYTHING at all pleasing to God, and He saved me. Okay salvation, praise Jesus mighty name, I'm forgiven and set free. Okay we all agree with this, ya-hoo, now this is what I'm talking about. Now because I was saved I am empowered to glorify the God that gave us everything, and to actually have the ability to please our Father. Now as a result of the free gift of salvation I will be changed, to what degree, how, and in what way is a personal thing and you're now on a walk with our Creator through His Son Jesus Christ. And my life is a testament of His power, and I will boldly proclaim this power. If you are in Christ you WILL produce fruit, it's impossible not to, and I actually hear Christians on this site make the literal case "you can be a Christian and do nothing for God", and I mean this, it it their argument and it blows my mind why in the world they want to paint our King in such a weak, powerless, pointless, and most of all hypothetical way.

I try to qualify this every time I talk about it that on paper what they say is not wrong, technically. I just feel lead to speak of the power of Jesus Christ to take us wicked fallen people and transform us into new creatures that can actually glorify our King. This is not a matter of worldly measurement, but your very nature transformed by the birth of your spirit and it's reconciliation to your Creator. These truths can not be spoken of in a "how much does it take" kind of way. In my opinion.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Confess each sin, God commands us to.

5 When anyone is guilty in any of these ways, he must confess in what way he has sinned
6 and, as a penalty for the sin he has committed, he must bring to the LORD a female lamb
or goat from the flock as a sin offering; and the priest shall make atonement for him for his sin.
Lev 5

40 "'But if they will confess their sins and the sins of their fathers-their treachery against me and their hostility toward me,
41 which made me hostile toward them so that I sent them into the land of their enemies-then when their uncircumcised hearts are humbled and they pay for their sin,
42 I will remember my covenant with Jacob and my covenant with Isaac and my covenant with Abraham, and I will remember the land.
Lev 26

7 must confess the sin he has committed. He must make full restitution for his wrong, add one fifth to it and give it all to the person he has wronged.
Num 5

Confession of specific sins is very important, because each sin has a cause and root that needs
identifying and resolving. Sin does not occur by itself but has roots and these are important to
work through, so that the behaviour can be changed into loving honouring behaviour to God and
man.

 

[Melach]

Confess each sin, God commands us to.

Confession of specific sins is very important, because each sin has a cause and root that needs
identifying and resolving. Sin does not occur by itself but has roots and these are important to
work through, so that the behaviour can be changed into loving honouring behaviour to God and
man.

i am beginning to see why dispensationalism could be the best idea ever. you were quoting mostly just leviticus and numbers there. under the law its new covenant now.

how could we ever confess each and every sin? it would take forever and we dont even remember all sins we have done

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Peter oh Peter

Your a deceiver, So please stop responding to my posts. Your a man who is in Christian Chat under false pretenses after having been banned under 2 former names.. And you have the GULL to try to attack others?

Your reputation is NILL. Even if the other person is with you because he is like you. It will not tarnish my belief of my understanding or my place in the family of God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

i am beginning to see why dispensationalism could be the best idea ever. you were quoting mostly just leviticus and numbers there. under the law its new covenant now.

how could we ever confess each and every sin? it would take forever and we dont even remember all sins we have done

Thats the flaw in their logic.

They say we should do that, but when it is pointed out how impossible it is, they blow it off.. like it means nothing.

 

[gb9]

Confess each sin, God commands us to.

5 When anyone is guilty in any of these ways, he must confess in what way he has sinned
6 and, as a penalty for the sin he has committed, he must bring to the LORD a female lamb
or goat from the flock as a sin offering; and the priest shall make atonement for him for his sin.
Lev 5

40 "'But if they will confess their sins and the sins of their fathers-their treachery against me and their hostility toward me,
41 which made me hostile toward them so that I sent them into the land of their enemies-then when their uncircumcised hearts are humbled and they pay for their sin,
42 I will remember my covenant with Jacob and my covenant with Isaac and my covenant with Abraham, and I will remember the land.
Lev 26

7 must confess the sin he has committed. He must make full restitution for his wrong, add one fifth to it and give it all to the person he has wronged.
Num 5

Confession of specific sins is very important, because each sin has a cause and root that needs
identifying and resolving. Sin does not occur by itself but has roots and these are important to
work through, so that the behaviour can be changed into loving honouring behaviour to God and
man.

this is why I hammer this at you so hard- if you do not properly recognize sin, then you will have unconfessed sin on your account.

it is so vitally important to see things how God sees things, and not let our human thinking and reasoning get in between .

recognize the Biblical definition of sin, put yourself under the authority of Scripture, instead of giving yourself authority over Scripture to make it say what you want.