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Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
right
tongues are not interpreted to prove they are from God. if people are praying in tongues and only pray to God and pray mysteries as scripture states, there is no way they need interpretation and to say if you don't know what you are praying and therefore you do not know if they are from God or not, indicates not understanding the purpose to begin with
nowhere, does he state they need interpretation to 'prove' they are of God. as it is, this is speaking of praying and we pray to God not to each other.
it's as plain as day in the instructions given by Paul
praying is never unfruitful and is even MORE fruitful when praying in the spirit...which is praying in tongues
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Just for the record.
Paul and what he says about the fruitfulness of praying without knowing the words spoken.
1 cor 14: 13 Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.
Yep. That would be unfruitful, and their could be no edification.
Paul and what he says about the fruitfulness of praying without knowing the words spoken.
1 cor 14: 13 Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.
Yep. That would be unfruitful, and their could be no edification.
Going back to OP.
Reading 1 corinthians chapters 12 throught to 14
It may be that Joe the cessasionist is actually unlearned or an unbeliever. If he says you are mad. But if he says tongues have ceased maybe he just wants silence in the church...the tongues have ceased in context meanig we stop talking. Doenst mean God doesnt want us to talk, but just not at the wrong time, especially in a church setting, and people cant understand what you are saying.
If he says unknown tongues are demonic thats something else then hes going against scripture see 1 corinthians 14:21
He would be really foolish to say that because God gave us all the different languages if we look at the tower of Babel...He made us speak in different langauges, before everyone just spoke in one langauge but God didnt want us to make a name for ourselves. It was Gods doing, not any demons doing, to have us speak in different tongues.
And it would be really foolish to think that your own tongue that you can understand is superior to anyone elses. Its not the tongue itself thats demonic, its the way we use it, demonic would be if we cursed others in any tongue.
See letter to James. We bless and do not curse.
When im in a prayer group in church and people speak in tongues and maybe I dont understand or theres no interpreter, I dont automatically think oh just cos I dont understand what thy saying they must be demonic. They would be my brothers and sisters praying with me and praising God. What else would they be doing. I then dont say oh stop talking you are being demonic.
Is this blasphemy of the holy spirit if you accuse a brother or sister of having an unclean spirit when they are using the gifts the holy spirit gave them? Well I think God takes that very seriously annyone whos accusing His people of evil when they are innocent. But He also knows that some people just dont understand cos in their understanding they are children. But people who actually do know better but still say these things to deliberately divide the body of Christ, are in danger of not being forgiven because they would be wanting to undo what God is doing.
Reading 1 corinthians chapters 12 throught to 14
It may be that Joe the cessasionist is actually unlearned or an unbeliever. If he says you are mad. But if he says tongues have ceased maybe he just wants silence in the church...the tongues have ceased in context meanig we stop talking. Doenst mean God doesnt want us to talk, but just not at the wrong time, especially in a church setting, and people cant understand what you are saying.
If he says unknown tongues are demonic thats something else then hes going against scripture see 1 corinthians 14:21
He would be really foolish to say that because God gave us all the different languages if we look at the tower of Babel...He made us speak in different langauges, before everyone just spoke in one langauge but God didnt want us to make a name for ourselves. It was Gods doing, not any demons doing, to have us speak in different tongues.
And it would be really foolish to think that your own tongue that you can understand is superior to anyone elses. Its not the tongue itself thats demonic, its the way we use it, demonic would be if we cursed others in any tongue.
See letter to James. We bless and do not curse.
When im in a prayer group in church and people speak in tongues and maybe I dont understand or theres no interpreter, I dont automatically think oh just cos I dont understand what thy saying they must be demonic. They would be my brothers and sisters praying with me and praising God. What else would they be doing. I then dont say oh stop talking you are being demonic.
Is this blasphemy of the holy spirit if you accuse a brother or sister of having an unclean spirit when they are using the gifts the holy spirit gave them? Well I think God takes that very seriously annyone whos accusing His people of evil when they are innocent. But He also knows that some people just dont understand cos in their understanding they are children. But people who actually do know better but still say these things to deliberately divide the body of Christ, are in danger of not being forgiven because they would be wanting to undo what God is doing.
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rubberball
Guest
Thats what I said. Rejection of the Holy Spirit is Satanic, as the Pharisees demonstrated. They attributed the works of Jesus to the power of the devil. The works of Jesus were used by the Holy Spirit to witness that Jesus is the Messiah.
I couldnt care less what a denomination says however it is in effect dying in unbelief.
I couldnt care less what a denomination says however it is in effect dying in unbelief.
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rubberball
Guest
Oh and no a Christian cannot commit blasphemy against the Holy Spirit in the sense Jesus was speaking of it in those two passages.
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rubberball
Guest
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
well I understand that quite a few denoms interpret those verses that way
but that is not what Jesus said
salvation is contingent upon belief in Christ
the Holy Spirit, sent on the day of Pentecost speaks of God and not His own will
the spiritual gifts are given by God, by the Holy Spirit and they have been interpreted as being demonic by several people in this forum
the op was created to understand/discuss what the unforgivable sin actually is
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
you say alot of truth here
and intent is the place of judgement but for God to judge
Paul is clear that tongues in prayer do not have to be interpreted as it is between the one praying and God
I've heard all the objections made by those who either cannot understand what is written for whatever reason, or, say tongues are not for today and none of them take into account that the directions are in scripture so maybe pray for better understanding
there are actual things going on today in some churches that are not of God ... the flesh puts on a show...but Paul is not even addressing that in I Corinthians. he is addressing an order to the use of tongues, not forbidding it and not saying it must be interpreted unless it is in the form of a prophetic tongue in which case it should be interpreted
I don't find that hard to understand and Paul does not say everyone will speak in tongues so those who do not, should not judge what God allows as long as it is done in order and not confusion. even so, that does not mean it is demonic, but missing instruction or getting carried away in the flesh
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obedienttogod
Guest
Obviously, I am sure you know I am going to disagree on some of what you feel these scriptures relate to.
I won't spend time on the first 2 and jump right into the 3rd verse I provided:
1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
This is rather clear that who speaks in an unknown Tongue is not speaking to other humans, but specifically to God Himself.
Let's begin here.
Obviously, if this was a improper action or false action to do, how is it that Paul claims this form of Tongues is therefore speaking DIRECTLY to God? This is rather conclusive that an unknown Tongue is a conversation between A and B...A, being to speaker and B, being God. And this is not a place where man can interpret.
And the rest of that verse implies you can ONLY peak in an unknown Tongue while in the Spirit (God's Spirit for it to be received by God).
Here is a better translation of the Greek for you to see what I am stating here:
" 2 For he who is speaking in a unknown language is not speaking to men, but to God, for no one is hearing, yet in spirit he is speaking secrets."
if this is a fake action, how can you be speaking secrets? It should be speaking in jibberish baloney if this is impossible to do.
But both this version and King James version make it clear this form of Tongues other humans cannot understand nor interpret because this type of spoken Tongues is a DIRECT correlation only to God.
If it was jibberish and fake, it most positively would not be a message directed to God!!
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obedienttogod
Guest
Here I go again because I have to disagree with your assessment here:
I see this verse like we see how God does many things. Which is, if I need a miracle and believe that God will intervene. The portion of what I am believing in also includes I don't know how God is going to make this way for me. My understanding is UNFRUITFUL of knowing how God plans to provide my miracle. Is someone I know going to help me, will it be a complete stranger, will my dogs provide it, will a mistake on someone's part end up being my benefit. NONE OF THESE I AM POSITIVE ABOUT, I am only positive that HOWEVER GOD DOES IT, He will do it!!
Paul is saying the same thing. I try to understand the unknown Tongues I speak, but I will never understand them because they are for God to understand, not for me to understand. Therefore, Paul's understanding does not produce the answer, it's unfruitful!!
Not really....I do not recall it.....but then again....I rarely watch the tube except NEWS and or an occasional "history channel show" and the last 4 years have spent 3 in AUSTRALIA.......SO....cannot recall seeing it or hearing about it....
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rubberball
Guest
Your taking the passages out of context. Its not about rejecting spiritual gifts. Its about rejecting Jesus and attributing His work to Satan. To try to apply the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit to the rejection of spiritual gifts is faulty and improper interpretation. Paul rejected what the Corinthians were doing because they were doing it in the flesh. A careful reading of 1st Cor. 14 reveals Paul was talking about two different types of glossalia, his own and what the Corinthians were practicing. The Corinthians were in error. Again it is not blasphemous to the Holy Spirit to disagree on the use of spiritual gifts. It is insulting to the Holy Spirit to take the word He inspired out of context and not rightly divide the word of God.
Nobody was hissing at the crowd. Nobody got hurt. The first time this happened to me was in a Sunday school class, at Christian Center, Lester Sumrall. The teacher prayed for everyone after it was finished. I went down feeling light as a feather.
Lester Sumrall was an awesome powerful Holy Spirit filled Preacher. Google him if interested. I think it was the Philippines that a great revival began after he ministered to a woman so possessed she was being bit by demons.
And you just stated I'm not a true Christian. I pray that the Lord open your eyes to the reality of a joyful life in Holy Spirit. In Jesus name.
I was hugged one time by the Lord. Which member exactly I don't know, but rapture is the only word that I can describe how it felt. There's not an English word for it, it's of heaven.
In what way were you hugged? That is interesting especially because I also have felt something during prayer that felt as if it was a warm embrace of comfort.
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obedienttogod
Guest
You need to read his book "Bitten by Demons." In the 80's, lester would go to Africa and many other places he had missions teams. Specifically, when these mission teams would see something that no one could explain, or had an idea but wanted Lester to make the call.
Bitten by Demons, is about a young teenager who was demonically possessed. And when the missionaries would pray to cast the demons out, physical bite marks on his body would appear. They were even filming it live as this would take place. You could just sense the very presence of evil from just watching the film. Finally, they called in Lester, a TONGUE SPEAKER and great Warrior of God with expertise knowledge of the WORD.
At first, Lester watched how the missionaries were trying to free this young man of his hundreds of demons. For the next few days, Lester backed everyone off from attempting to cast the demons out. He sat with the young man day and night with film running 24/7. During this period, Lester encountered several demons who they have on film revealing their names. Lester noticed, while probing the demons, he would see from the inside out where these demons were biting this young man over and over. you could see the skin rise, like it was being forced from the body, in the shape of a full mouth and set of teeth biting down on the young man's flesh. The young man had bruises all over in the shape of someone being literally bitten. After getting enough notes and watching all he wanted see, Lester and the missionaries finally did cast the demons out.
But indeed, Lester was a great example for someone like me. I knew then spiritual warfare was just not praying for Grandma to get better. It was about an actual invisible entity I would not be able to physically see. I could see what these entities would do, but I could not see the body of the entity itself while doing it, only would see the results. His experiences have always remained in my mind when I deal with the enemy. I thank God for him!!
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obedienttogod
Guest
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rubberball
Guest
A man had a dream in which he stood in the presence of God on judgment day. God asked him, 'Why should I let you into My heaven?' The man replied, 'I saw a ball of fire fall from the sky'. The Lord said, 'No'. Again in the dream the man heard God ask him a second time, 'Why should I allow you into My heaven?'. The man replied, 'I heard angels voices singing your praises'. God said 'No'. Then in his dream the man saw himself once again before God. God said, 'Why should I let you into My heaven?' The man replied, 'Jesus Christ died for me and His blood covers my sin' He rose from the dead to give me new life'. God said. 'Yes'.
Point is no post salvation experience is assurance of salvation. The integrity of God is our basis for our assurance of salvation.