The problem of being rich
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For some reason I've had in my mind that storing up treasures here is a worthless pursuit and should be avoided as well "something" sticking in my mind about already receiving ones reward on earth. Is there a scripture about the latter? Or am I just somehow confusing the scripture about "public fasting" of the pharisees?
Money seems crass in general...Or at least putting an exact dollar/gold/numerical value on something.
I always saw it as a way to hold power and chose not to acquire much because I fear the temptation that large wealth brings, or at least to wait until my "wisdom wallet" has matured to the point of seeing through money. I can't say that I'm quite there.
I still don't fully get what money even is, and why the world is ruled by it on the surface. There's the obvious "god of this world/prince of the power of the air" jazz...but it seems to run so much deeper.
Even most Christians I know still equate one's spiritual walk with stability in one's finances. If one doesn't own a car, a house, has a stable job, then one is not a good steward and their walk is not right. If one feels like throwing in the towel on the world's system....heard soooo so much about it. Consistently.
If you don't have $$$ you aren't worth anything, you have no right to really speak. Clearly you aren't disciplined and not steadfast.
It's a deep issue, one I would like to "flesh" out further. I still don't get the point of money and why people value their energy so low that they are willing to trade it for paper and why the Lord allows the system to perpetuate "unless" there is something in it he has designed to function as such. It's murky.
Money seems crass in general...Or at least putting an exact dollar/gold/numerical value on something.
I always saw it as a way to hold power and chose not to acquire much because I fear the temptation that large wealth brings, or at least to wait until my "wisdom wallet" has matured to the point of seeing through money. I can't say that I'm quite there.
I still don't fully get what money even is, and why the world is ruled by it on the surface. There's the obvious "god of this world/prince of the power of the air" jazz...but it seems to run so much deeper.
Even most Christians I know still equate one's spiritual walk with stability in one's finances. If one doesn't own a car, a house, has a stable job, then one is not a good steward and their walk is not right. If one feels like throwing in the towel on the world's system....heard soooo so much about it. Consistently.
If you don't have $$$ you aren't worth anything, you have no right to really speak. Clearly you aren't disciplined and not steadfast.
It's a deep issue, one I would like to "flesh" out further. I still don't get the point of money and why people value their energy so low that they are willing to trade it for paper and why the Lord allows the system to perpetuate "unless" there is something in it he has designed to function as such. It's murky.
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When you start posting Internet memes to back up your assertion, there is a problem.
If you began this thread to counter Prosperity doctrine, then why do you not actually deal with that, itself, and it's purveyors instead of just tossing out blanket statements that everyone who is "rich," (according to what type of measurement?) is bad? A "rich" person is still only accountable to God Himself, not your personal concept of where a Christian should be at in regards to earthly wealth, or lack of it. No Christian on this earth is required to confine their material level to your personal standards.
You attempt to dismiss every single reference to people in the Bible who were rich, and where godly people who obeyed God. We got like three or four responses to Isaac with "Isaac went blind." Yes, he went blind. Because he was old. The blindness had nothing to do with his wealth. Our earthly bodies are fragile and flawed, and things go wrong with them, and those things often increase and become more pronounced as we grow older. When I had my eyes examined earlier this year, the eye doctor informed me that I was developing cataracts. My first thought was not, "I must be getting cataracts because I've got too much stuff!"
If you began this thread to counter Prosperity doctrine, then why do you not actually deal with that, itself, and it's purveyors instead of just tossing out blanket statements that everyone who is "rich," (according to what type of measurement?) is bad? A "rich" person is still only accountable to God Himself, not your personal concept of where a Christian should be at in regards to earthly wealth, or lack of it. No Christian on this earth is required to confine their material level to your personal standards.
You attempt to dismiss every single reference to people in the Bible who were rich, and where godly people who obeyed God. We got like three or four responses to Isaac with "Isaac went blind." Yes, he went blind. Because he was old. The blindness had nothing to do with his wealth. Our earthly bodies are fragile and flawed, and things go wrong with them, and those things often increase and become more pronounced as we grow older. When I had my eyes examined earlier this year, the eye doctor informed me that I was developing cataracts. My first thought was not, "I must be getting cataracts because I've got too much stuff!"
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If Jesus were to come down here again as a humble servant like He did 2000 years ago, I'm sure that He would be accused of being a blasphemous fool and a lazy drunkard all over again. I have heard that He is more interested in how much you have kept back than how much you have given. I like how the following passage also points out that people will criticize, no matter what you do. Just do what is right in the sight of the Lord as He leads you. That is all that matters.
Matthew 26
26:7 There came unto him a woman having an alabaster box of very precious ointment, and poured it on his head, as he sat [at meat].
26:8 But when his disciples saw [it], they had indignation, saying, To what purpose [is] this waste?
26:9 For this ointment might have been sold for much, and given to the poor.
Matthew 26
26:7 There came unto him a woman having an alabaster box of very precious ointment, and poured it on his head, as he sat [at meat].
26:8 But when his disciples saw [it], they had indignation, saying, To what purpose [is] this waste?
26:9 For this ointment might have been sold for much, and given to the poor.
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Yep theres a scripture for that.
Some people gloss over it but its what Jesus said, he gave a parable about storing treasures on earth that moths eat and rust destroys. Our treasure is in heaven. Amd also about the rich man who built bigger barns to keep it all for himself instead of giving his surplus away to those who had none
I'll find the reference for you and you can look up for yourself
Some people gloss over it but its what Jesus said, he gave a parable about storing treasures on earth that moths eat and rust destroys. Our treasure is in heaven. Amd also about the rich man who built bigger barns to keep it all for himself instead of giving his surplus away to those who had none
I'll find the reference for you and you can look up for yourself
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Jesus tells LOADS of parables about 'a certain rich man' its like he didnt want to say his name to shame him, but Im sure the people who heard these parables knew exactly who he was talking about.
He just points out his foolish behaviour. Some people that are rich, or certain people that are rich behave in the most peculiar ways. Dont be like them.
Check out luke 12:15-21
He just points out his foolish behaviour. Some people that are rich, or certain people that are rich behave in the most peculiar ways. Dont be like them.
Check out luke 12:15-21
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6:19 And the whole multitude sought to touch him: for there went virtue out of him, and healed [them] all.
6:20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed [be ye] poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.
6:21 Blessed [are ye] that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed [are ye] that weep now: for ye shall laugh.
6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you [from their company], and shall reproach [you], and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.
6:23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward [is] great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.
6:24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.
6:20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed [be ye] poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.
6:21 Blessed [are ye] that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed [are ye] that weep now: for ye shall laugh.
6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you [from their company], and shall reproach [you], and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.
6:23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward [is] great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.
6:24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.
12:15 And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.
12:16 And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully:
12:17 And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?
12:18 And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.
12:19 And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, [and] be merry.
12:20 But God said unto him, [Thou] fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?
12:21 So [is] he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.
12:16 And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully:
12:17 And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?
12:18 And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.
12:19 And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, [and] be merry.
12:20 But God said unto him, [Thou] fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?
12:21 So [is] he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.
14:12 Then said he also to him that bade him, When thou makest a dinner or a supper, call not thy friends, nor thy brethren, neither thy kinsmen, nor [thy] rich neighbours; lest they also bid thee again, and a recompence be made thee.
14:13 But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind:
14:14 And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.
14:15 And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed [is] he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God.
14:16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:
14:17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.
14:18 And they all with one [consent] began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused.
14:19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.
14:20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.
14:21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.
14:22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.
14:23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel [them] to come in, that my house may be filled.
14:24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.
14:13 But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind:
14:14 And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.
14:15 And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed [is] he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God.
14:16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:
14:17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.
14:18 And they all with one [consent] began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused.
14:19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.
14:20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.
14:21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.
14:22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.
14:23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel [them] to come in, that my house may be filled.
14:24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.
In other words, you have no reply that would contain any substance. You began a thread based on . . . nothing except generalized condemnation.
There is plenty you could say on the falseness and danger of the Prosperity Doctrine. We all know who the purveys of those doctrines are and most of us who are actually serious, and recognize the doctrine for the confidence scheme that it actually is have spoken out against it's purveyors bluntly and often. If you where actually concerned about that, you would be conducting yourself much differently. You would be pointing out the flaws in the doctrine itself instead of just condemning anyone who's material and/or monetary levels are above some arbitrary tipping point you have assigned to them. People whom you do not know, and, it would seem, don't actually care about. If you did care about them, you would delineate the dangers this doctrine contains instead of pursuing the useless tact of "You're bad if you have material wealth." That does absolutely nothing to explain why the doctrine itself is dangerous.
There is plenty you could say on the falseness and danger of the Prosperity Doctrine. We all know who the purveys of those doctrines are and most of us who are actually serious, and recognize the doctrine for the confidence scheme that it actually is have spoken out against it's purveyors bluntly and often. If you where actually concerned about that, you would be conducting yourself much differently. You would be pointing out the flaws in the doctrine itself instead of just condemning anyone who's material and/or monetary levels are above some arbitrary tipping point you have assigned to them. People whom you do not know, and, it would seem, don't actually care about. If you did care about them, you would delineate the dangers this doctrine contains instead of pursuing the useless tact of "You're bad if you have material wealth." That does absolutely nothing to explain why the doctrine itself is dangerous.
In other words, you find poor and rude behavior acceptable, as long as you are the one doing it.
1 Peter 2:17 Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king.
1 Peter 3:15-16 15 But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, 16 keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
Insults are much less harmful to others when delivered than they are to the deliverer, externally. They mark you as someone who does not practice what they preach, actually has no regard for God's instructions on the subject and they completely kill your witness. Considering your chosen user name, it seems there is much more learning for you to pursue in this area.
1 Peter 2:17 Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king.
1 Peter 3:15-16 15 But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, 16 keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
Insults are much less harmful to others when delivered than they are to the deliverer, externally. They mark you as someone who does not practice what they preach, actually has no regard for God's instructions on the subject and they completely kill your witness. Considering your chosen user name, it seems there is much more learning for you to pursue in this area.
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Aha! Luke 6:24! That's the verse I was looking for...
What does this mean to you guys? I have always been of the opinion that it makes sense to make as much as you can. To grow wealth in order to provide for others...mostly food/shelter/GOOD clothing (practical, not fashionable). It seems like most should desire to do this...
But then this scripture always kind of catches me. I haven't read it in a while but it's like scripture sort of knocks around in my spirit and crafts my worldview...occasionally I feel the use a magnifying glass on a particular "thread" of the tapestry so to speak.
So you can make a choice. To CHOOSE to be poor because of so many scriptures against the folly of riches...and yet, "something" has to pay the bills, so I always reach a sort of impasse.
I've always wanted to be rich, mostly to help people, also to enjoy all the DIY aspects of being a human being. To build on a solid foundation...every ministry requires donation of some sort. I also have a taste for luxury (even in poverty). Natural luxuries but even those usually cost something. Drinking in the beauty of the grand canyon is a luxury item IMO. Enjoying the beauty of Hawaii...
and yet, I feel guilty for things like that because it doesn't feel very sacrificial and just feels hedonistic to an extent. So it all gets a tad muddled for me.
So it seems like a trap to enjoy this world "fully" solomon style and yet there are times when I feel like that's exactly what the Lord wants me to do. Instead of focusing on eternal rewards...relax, praise and do some earthly content testing
Anyway, any of you guys have frustrating dichotomies like that?
What does this mean to you guys? I have always been of the opinion that it makes sense to make as much as you can. To grow wealth in order to provide for others...mostly food/shelter/GOOD clothing (practical, not fashionable). It seems like most should desire to do this...
But then this scripture always kind of catches me. I haven't read it in a while but it's like scripture sort of knocks around in my spirit and crafts my worldview...occasionally I feel the use a magnifying glass on a particular "thread" of the tapestry so to speak.
So you can make a choice. To CHOOSE to be poor because of so many scriptures against the folly of riches...and yet, "something" has to pay the bills, so I always reach a sort of impasse.
I've always wanted to be rich, mostly to help people, also to enjoy all the DIY aspects of being a human being. To build on a solid foundation...every ministry requires donation of some sort. I also have a taste for luxury (even in poverty). Natural luxuries but even those usually cost something. Drinking in the beauty of the grand canyon is a luxury item IMO. Enjoying the beauty of Hawaii...
and yet, I feel guilty for things like that because it doesn't feel very sacrificial and just feels hedonistic to an extent. So it all gets a tad muddled for me.
So it seems like a trap to enjoy this world "fully" solomon style and yet there are times when I feel like that's exactly what the Lord wants me to do. Instead of focusing on eternal rewards...relax, praise and do some earthly content testing
Anyway, any of you guys have frustrating dichotomies like that?
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