gays and heaven

[ForestGreenCook]

You are calling God's Word a lie!!

1.He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

2. … Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

3.“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

4. The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

5. For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

6. Who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

7. Who gave himself as a ransom for all....

8. They said to the woman, “It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this is indeed the Savior of the world.”

9. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life

10. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

11. My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.


12. The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

13. For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

14.For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all


15. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved...

Yes, the gays sins are paid for IF he turns from sin and accepts Christ as his Savior. If he continues to live in that sin he will split hell wide open. Salvation is a gift and you can accept it or choose to walk away. If you walk away then the wages of sin is death.

Your number 4 is a quote from John 1:29. Thayers Greek interpretation of the word "WORLD" in this verse means used of believers only, so it would be the world of believers and the natural man cannot believe in spiritual things (1 Cor 2:14). Thayer also includes the following verses that use the word "WORLD" with the same meaning; John 3:16, 3:17, 6:33, 12:47, 1 Cor 4:9, 2 Cor 5:19. All scripture must harmonize. In your number 14. gave himself as a ransom for all that the Father gave him (John 6:38). In your number 12 Peter is instructing, those that have obtained like precious faith. My bedtime, will reconnect tomorrow.

 

[DarnellPistachio]

Let us change the question
If you are a Christian, and you have a bad habit. (Cussing / getting jealous or angry easily / speak of other people being foolosh when you don't agree with them etc...) ... do you go to hell?

.. or are you saved by the blood of Christ?

We have all sinned. And I know not ONE Christian who has stopped sinning. So.... why do people try to make it different for gay people? There is two solutions:

ALL those who sin after accepting Christ go to to hell because they loose their salvation
or
ALL who accepted Christ to go haven because they are saved by His blood

There is a difference between quitting sin and quitting repentance. Period. Homosexual desires are not holy, but neither is craving alcohol. Refusing to abandon something God hates because He willingly laid His own life down is definitely a salvational issue. It is assurance that you do not have any.

 

[kaylagrl]

There is a difference between quitting sin and quitting repentance. Period. Homosexual desires are not holy, but neither is craving alcohol. Refusing to abandon something God hates because He willingly laid His own life down is definitely a salvational issue. It is assurance that you do not have any.

I'm not sure that person is even here anymore. This is an old thread. Just in case you were expecting a response from them

 

[ForestGreenCook]

There is a difference between quitting sin and quitting repentance. Period. Homosexual desires are not holy, but neither is craving alcohol. Refusing to abandon something God hates because He willingly laid His own life down is definitely a salvational issue. It is assurance that you do not have any.

Sin is sin. Christ payed for ALL of the sins of his elect. He paid for the sin of homosexuality the same as he paid for the sins of you and I. Those sins are not held accountable to us as far as our eternal security is concerned.

 

[kaylagrl]

Your number 4 is a quote from John 1:29. Thayers Greek interpretation of the word "WORLD" in this verse means used of believers only, so it would be the world of believers and the natural man cannot believe in spiritual things (1 Cor 2:14). Thayer also includes the following verses that use the word "WORLD" with the same meaning; John 3:16, 3:17, 6:33, 12:47, 1 Cor 4:9, 2 Cor 5:19. All scripture must harmonize. In your number 14. gave himself as a ransom for all that the Father gave him (John 6:38). In your number 12 Peter is instructing, those that have obtained like precious faith. My bedtime, will reconnect tomorrow.

Thayer was a Unitarian, he didn't believe in Biblical inerrancy nor did he believe in the Trinity or the deity of Christ. So anything he has to say is off the table. The verses stand and mean what they say. ALL, WHOSOEVER, THE WORLD.

 

[kaylagrl]

Sin is sin. Christ payed for ALL of the sins of his elect. He paid for the sin of homosexuality the same as he paid for the sins of you and I. Those sins are not held accountable to us as far as our eternal security is concerned.

False doctrine. The verses prove it. He paid for all sins of all mankind. He paid for every sin, on that we would agree. Homosexuality to murder and everything in between. And they are not counted against those who repent and turn from their sin. Those who do not repent and turn from their sin are lost. You're eternally secure as long as you remain in Christ. A practicing homosexual who has not turned from their sin and believed on Jesus for their salvation will be lost. Otherwise you are telling me that no matter how sinful a life someone lives, no matter how debauched they live they're going to heaven because they were "pre-saved" In no way does the Bible support this notion. Just because God knows who will come to Him doesn't mean he chose certain people for destruction and others for heaven. That would mean that a child who dies that wasn't "pre-saved" goes straight to hell. It's false doctrine and a dangerous one.

 

[kaylagrl]

BTW Thayer also believed in baptismal regeneration, also false doctrine.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

False doctrine. The verses prove it. He paid for all sins of all mankind. He paid for every sin, on that we would agree. Homosexuality to murder and everything in between. And they are not counted against those who repent and turn from their sin. Those who do not repent and turn from their sin are lost. You're eternally secure as long as you remain in Christ. A practicing homosexual who has not turned from their sin and believed on Jesus for their salvation will be lost. Otherwise you are telling me that no matter how sinful a life someone lives, no matter how debauched they live they're going to heaven because they were "pre-saved" In no way does the Bible support this notion. Just because God knows who will come to Him doesn't mean he chose certain people for destruction and others for heaven. That would mean that a child who dies that wasn't "pre-saved" goes straight to hell. It's false doctrine and a dangerous one.

You are promoting an unsuccessful Jesus in your fact that he died and paid for the sins of all mankind and all of mankind will not be saved eternally. You are restricting God's power when God states that he will accomplish all of his will. If it is God's will that all mankind is to be saved then the obvious conclusion would be that all mankind will be saved and I do not think that you believe that. Dan 4:35 - And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou? John 17:2 - As thou has given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are promoting an unsuccessful Jesus in your fact that he died and paid for the sins of all mankind and all of mankind will not be saved eternally. You are restricting God's power when God states that he will accomplish all of his will. If it is God's will that all mankind is to be saved then the obvious conclusion would be that all mankind will be saved and I do not think that you believe that. Dan 4:35 - And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou? John 17:2 - As thou has given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Nahh

Your restricting Gods power. Your saying God is incapable of drawing people to himself and convince them to trust in his word and his promise. Not do you think he has power to offer salvation to ALL mankind. (Whether they chose to receive this salvation or not)

 

[kaylagrl]

You are promoting an unsuccessful Jesus in your fact that he died and paid for the sins of all mankind and all of mankind will not be saved eternally.


No,you are promoting an unsuccessful Jesus, you are believing a lie. His blood is not limited to a few,it is for ALL. ALL means what it says. If people don't accept it that doesn't negate Jesus blood, His sacrifice or the cross. His offer stands, we must accept it. We are saved by believing on Him, trusting in His death on the cross.


You are restricting God's power when God states that he will accomplish all of his will.

Again,no. You are the one restricting His power. His will was accomplished on the cross. He reconciled God to man, we can approach the very throne of God. There is no priest between us. Jesus is the Mediator and He died once for ALL. But we must believe it and receive it.


If it is God's will that all mankind is to be saved then the obvious conclusion would be that all mankind will be saved and I do not think that you believe that.


It IS His will!! The Bible says it's His will!! And you're making a conclusion based on your belief in Limited Atonement. It IS His will, but He doesn't force His will on anyone. The gift is free, it's for ALL, but not all will accept it. Otherwise there is no point for Christ to die if a limited amount of people would be saved. The OT shed blood would be enough. Christ died to reconcile God to man. His blood paid the price for all sin for all time, but it's conditional,we must accept that He is who He said He was and that He died for the remission of our sins.


Dan 4:35 - And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou? John 17:2 - As thou has given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.


You're basing your false doctrine on one verse. The gift is to all, to whosoever will. But they must believe by faith.

Romans -For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Romans -because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.


John -but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.


Acts - And they said,“Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.


The apostles and Jesus Himself spoke to thousands of people, preaching the Gospel. Missionaries and evangelists have carried on this work. Why? Why offer something that most of them cannot have? Why preach? I was in evangelistic ministry myself and saw people come to the Lord in faith. But I should have been kicking them out the door saying "Salvation isn't for you!!" If what you are saying is the truth Christ is a liar. He said "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me."

 

[DarnellPistachio]

Sin is sin. Christ payed for ALL of the sins of his elect. He paid for the sin of homosexuality the same as he paid for the sins of you and I. Those sins are not held accountable to us as far as our eternal security is concerned.

So then when Paul said that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom...he meant what exactly?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

BTW Thayer also believed in baptismal regeneration, also false doctrine.

Book, chapter and verse please?
Eternal salvation is not an offer that God makes to man. Christ's sacrifice was an offering to God, for God's acceptance and not to man for man's acceptance. Of those he died for, which was only those that God gave him. Jesus said he would lose nothing, but raise them up at the last day. How do you interpret that statement of Jesus to mean all mankind and again, if it was for all mankind, as you propose, then why are not all mankind in heaven at the last day if Jesus said he would lose nothing? You have to really stretch your imagination to make that verse mean all of mankind. Can you explain that to me? I have explained the scripture quotes already that you keep giving me. All scriptures must harmonize to be the doctrine that Jesus taught. There are two different worlds spoken of in the scriptures. Why did God say that he so loved the world that in another verse he tells us to love not the world. Does it make sense to you that he would tell us not to love the world that he loves. Think about it.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

So then when Paul said that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom...he meant what exactly?

Christ set up his church when he inhabited the earth, which is his kingdom. His church is referred to in the scriptures by many names, such as; The kingdom of God, the kingdom of Christ, the church of God, the church of Christ, the kingdom of heaven, the new Jerusalem, the church of the first born and many more. The church discipline restricts people who are actively participating in sin from membership and if detected after placing membership the church is instructed to exclude them. If an active homosexual is one of those that Christ died for and paid for their sins then they will be changed in the twinkling of the eye when Christ comes back to gather up his elect. 2 Thes 3:6 is an example of church discipline.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Nahh

Your restricting Gods power. Your saying God is incapable of drawing people to himself and convince them to trust in his word and his promise. Not do you think he has power to offer salvation to ALL mankind. (Whether they chose to receive this salvation or not)

Eternal salvation is not a choice offered to man for man to act upon by his work (decision) it is by God's sovereign grace, without the help of man.

 

[DarnellPistachio]

Christ set up his church when he inhabited the earth, which is his kingdom. His church is referred to in the scriptures by many names, such as; The kingdom of God, the kingdom of Christ, the church of God, the church of Christ, the kingdom of heaven, the new Jerusalem, the church of the first born and many more. The church discipline restricts people who are actively participating in sin from membership and if detected after placing membership the church is instructed to exclude them. If an active homosexual is one of those that Christ died for and paid for their sins then they will be changed in the twinkling of the eye when Christ comes back to gather up his elect. 2 Thes 3:6 is an example of church discipline.

so youre essentially saying that all men, regardless of anything, go to heaven?

 

[TMS]

Eze_14:6 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols; and turn away your faces from all your abominations.
If it's homosexualaity or any sin we are asked to turn from it and repent.
Luk_13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
It's not about how much or how many times we sin but have we repented.
Luk_17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
Luk_17:4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.
God forgives us if we repent.
Act_17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Act_2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

It is not up to me to Judge if someone has repented or not, that is between them and their saviour.
But repentance is to turn away from your sin.

Repentance is the activity of reviewing one's actions and feeling contrition or regret for past wrongs, which is accompanied by commitment to change for the better. In modern times, it is generally seen as involving a commitment to personal change and the resolve to live a more responsible and humane life.

If homosexuality is understood as wrong and the person repents of the wrong deed, they should turn away from it. i understand that overcoming sin isn't that simple but i also believe there isn't any excuse to justify the sin.

 

[TMS]

Eternal salvation is not a choice offered to man for man to act upon by his work (decision) it is by God's sovereign grace, without the help of man.

I look at it like the ark that Noah built. God told the world that the flood was coming and gave them a way to live but it was up to the people to choose. Those that got on the ark survived and those that didn't died. Jesus is our arc and He has given His blood for all to accept but it is up to us to accept it. If you enter the ark before the door closes you will be safe. Once the door closes there isn't any more grace. All glory to God but Noah did build the ark by grace. So God does use man to work at things, even if man isn't needed.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Eternal salvation is not a choice offered to man for man to act upon by his work (decision) it is by God's sovereign grace, without the help of man.

It is the work of God that WE BELIEVE

Man chosing to receive Gods gift is not a work man.


Stop being afraid of that and chose today who you will follow..

 

[ForestGreenCook]

so youre essentially saying that all men, regardless of anything, go to heaven?

No, not all men just those that the Father gave to his Son to die for. (John 6:38).

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Eze_14:6 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols; and turn away your faces from all your abominations.
If it's homosexualaity or any sin we are asked to turn from it and repent.
Luk_13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
It's not about how much or how many times we sin but have we repented.
Luk_17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
Luk_17:4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.
God forgives us if we repent.
Act_17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Act_2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

It is not up to me to Judge if someone has repented or not, that is between them and their saviour.
But repentance is to turn away from your sin.

Repentance is the activity of reviewing one's actions and feeling contrition or regret for past wrongs, which is accompanied by commitment to change for the better. In modern times, it is generally seen as involving a commitment to personal change and the resolve to live a more responsible and humane life.

If homosexuality is understood as wrong and the person repents of the wrong deed, they should turn away from it. i understand that overcoming sin isn't that simple but i also believe there isn't any excuse to justify the sin.

Repenting is an action (work) that the born again child of God does because he is pricked in his heart of breaking a spiritual law. The work of repenting is not the cause of your eternal salvation, but an action that you are already born of the Holy Spirit. The natural man, void of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit will not feel guilty of breaking a spiritual law that he cannot discern and will never repent of something he does not understand.(1 Cor 2:14). James 1:15 - Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished bringeth forth death (separation) from the fellowship with God, not separation from eternal life). The natural man, until he has been given the Holy Spirit in regeneration, cannot be pricked in his heart because he has not yet been born again and given a new heart.