Is Ultimate Release from Hell Possible?

[garee]

I gave you lots of Scriptures where Jesus tells everyone plainly that He is returning in His generation (Matt 16: 27-28, Mark 8:38-9: 1, Luke 9: 26-27, Matt 24: 34, Mark 13: 30, Luke 21: 32, Matt 10: 23 and there are dozens more all over the NT). You never answered any of them. The answers you tried to give the Scripture explicitly denies as possible.

Tell yourself whatever helps you sleep at night. God bless you.

We are the generation of Christ. And not the generation of Adam as natural man.

Jesus as the Christ is here (2 Corinthians 4:7) he dwells in those he is reigning with...... working to both will and do the good pleasure of God. They have been reigning with Him since the beginning of the last days. The time or reformation came nearly two thousands years ago. Those who remain alive on the last day... in the twinkling of the eye both those asleep in Christ and those reigning will receive the promise of the new body. The old creation will go up in smoke never to rise to new spirit life forever and ever more. There will be no Phoenix rising from the ashes. The corrupted flesh returns to dust and the corrupted temporal spirit return to that father of the spirit essence of life .Christ Jesus our Living God. . God is Spirit

The coming of him on the last day is not another fleshly demonstration he fulfilled that promise. He is not a man as us. . He informs us he will not give another temporal demonstration in ( 2 Corinthians 5:16)

But natural man loves the flesh .He will come as a thief in the night to them . The believers have that warning and are watching . Those who believe not (faithless) have none. They are watching for the flesh.

 

[Journeyman]

Well there is a difference between a king and his subjects.

Follow the leader.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Reality is,

Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you Jn.14:27

the peace of God, which passeth all understanding Phil.4:7

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new 2Cor.5:17

They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD Isa.65:25

They? Who are they? And where's this holy mountain? Can someone get me a map?

Anyone who looks at this world even in the last 100 plus years, and thinks Satan is bound, and all that was promised would happened (the things I mentioned in my post) I got to question what they are thinking

God is not a liar If he says it will happen. it will.

 

[garee]

You people who believe and teach that Jesus has already come are in for a very big awakening. For by the time the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments have completed, the majority of the earths population will have been decimated and all human government dismantled. If you had done an in depth study of them you would understand this. Regarding this time of God's coming wrath and the kingdom of the beast, Jesus said that "if those days had not been cut short, no one would saved, i.e. left alive.

The inspired prophecy in Revelation in the opening statement is identified as signified . Signs that give a poetic interpretation using metaphors to hide the truth from one and reveal it to a Kingdom of priest.

Proverbs 25:2 It is the "glory of God" to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

If Christ as the power we have in these bodies of death has not already come .Then by what source or power to you believe by?

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

With all due respect it would seem you are reigning with Christ, you show it with the love you have for the gospel .

The faithless jew are looking for a demstration that has already apeared . Some Christians looking for a second demonstration.

Sealing the requirement of the one promised demonstration of the work of the father and Son working together. In respect to the Son of man. The Jews who say they have the father deny him by separating the work of the two that does bring us the peace of God that surpasses all human understanding.

It was altogether one work of two. No father, no son. No Son no father, no God. Know the father, know the son. Know the son, know the father....know God

Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.1 John 2:

One promised outward demonstration. He is here no waiting for him just the last day.

 

[FlyingDove]

Does the NT allow the possibility of ultimate postmortem release from Hell? I'm raising this issue because of another thread started by someone who finds himself in a battle to retain his faith over the difficulty of believing in eternal damnation. This thread will focus on this issue from the perspective of Jesus, Peter, Paul, and the Book of Revelation in that order.

Knowledge of the original languages is important for understanding Scripture, partly because there is often no one-to-one exact English equivalent for Hebrew and Greek theological terms. Important examples are the Hebrew ("olam") and Greek ("aionios") words often translated "eternal." In fact, both words can mean "for a long time" and "enduring." Thus, in the Testaments of the 12 Patriarchs the death of Isaac can be described as "enduring (aionios) sleep" with the implication of ultimate postmortem survival. Consider these 3 NT examples where "aionios" does not mean "eternal:
(a) " that you should receive him (Onesimus) forever (aionion"--better translated "for good"--Philemon 25)."
(b) the use of aionios" in the plural to mean "long ages" in Romans 16:25 and 1 Timothy 1:9
(C) the frequent use of "aionios" by the Greek Septuagint to translate the Hebrew "olam, which means "for a long time"/QUOTE]


Vine's dicitionary of new testament words agree's with your (b) & (c) definition of eternal/"aionios".

We simply can't take 2-3 verses & broad brush the their definition. To the additional 63 times eternal/"aionios" is used in scripture.

Find additional contextual info provided by Vine's below on eternal/"aionios". The last paragraph provided via Vine's is in complete disagreement with your posted argument on eternal damnation or one's ultimate release from hell. Peace & MOO/My Opinion Only...

Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words:

Eternal
[ 1,,G165, aion ]
an age," is translated "eternal" in Ephesians 3:11, lit., "(purpose) of the ages" (marg.). See AGE.

[ 2,,G166, aionios ]
"describes duration, either undefined but not endless, as in Romans 16:25; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 1:2; or undefined because endless as in Romans 16:26, and the other sixty-six places in the NT.

"The predominant meaning of aionios, that in which it is used everywhere in the NT, save the places noted above, may be seen in 2 Corinthians 4:18, where it is set in contrast with proskairos, lit., 'for a season,' and in Philemon 1:15, where only in the NT it is used without a noun. Moreover it is used of persons and things which are in their nature endless, as, e.g., of God, Romans 16:26; of His power, 1 Timothy 6:16, and of His glory, 1 Peter 5:10; of the Holy Spirit, Hebrews 9:14; of the redemption effected by Christ, Hebrews 9:12, and of the consequent salvation of men, Hebrews 5:9, as well as of His future rule, 2 Peter 1:11, which is elsewhere declared to be without end, Luke 1:33; of the life received by those who believe in Christ, John 3:16, concerning whom He said, 'they shall never perish,' John 10:28, and of the resurrection body, 2 Corinthians 5:1, elsewhere said to be 'immortal,' 1 Corinthians 15:53, in which that life will be finally realized, Matthew 25:46; Titus 1:2.

"Aionios is also used of the sin that 'hath never forgiveness,' Mark 3:29, and of the judgment of God, from which there is no appeal, Hebrews 6:2, and of the fire, which is one of its instruments, Matthew 18:8; Matthew 25:41; Jude 1:7, and which is elsewhere said to be 'unquenchable,' Mark 9:43. "The use of aionios here shows that the punishment referred to in 2 Thessalonians 1:9, is not temporary, but final, and, accordingly, the phraseology shows that its purpose is not remedial but retributive." * [* From Notes on Thessalonians by Hogg and Vine, pp. 232,233.]

 

[garee]

Anyone who looks at this world even in the last 100 plus years, and thinks Satan is bound, and all that was promised would happened (the things I mentioned in my post) I got to question what they are thinking

God is not a liar If he says it will happen. it will.

I would think first. Bound from what? Appearing with the angels who have not left their first place of habitation when he fell at Calvary?

I would think it is the gospel as the key that binds a lying spirit. (ye shall not die")

In the signified language of Revelation 20 according to that parable a literal chain is used to show he is bound for a undetermined time, as a bottomless pit. All of those metaphors have a another understanding hid.

The time of reformation had come, the binding did appear Satan fell . It is called the last days or the generation of Christ the new reformed generation that God personally named Christian with no other meaning added...."resident of the city of Christ the new heavenly Jerusalem"

As you can see the passage is loaded with metaphors to help us walk by faith the unseen spiritual understanding hid from them that have not the Spirit of Christ.

Lying spirits have no form or could they be contained or bound by those things seen that do...... as if we did wrestles against flesh and blood.

What they can produce is lies, nothing more and nothing less.

Revelation 20:1-3 King James Version (KJV)And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I would think first. Bound from what? Appearing with the angels who have not left their first place of habitation when he fell at Calvary?

I would think it is the gospel as the key that binds a lying spirit. (ye shall not die")

In the signified language of Revelation 20 according to that parable a literal chain is used to show he is bound for a undetermined time, as a bottomless pit. All of those metaphors have a another understanding hid.

The time of reformation had come, the binding did appear Satan fell . It is called the last days or the generation of Christ the new reformed generation that God personally named Christian with no other meaning added...."resident of the city of Christ the new heavenly Jerusalem"

As you can see the passage is loaded with metaphors to help us walk by faith the unseen spiritual understanding hid from them that have not the Spirit of Christ.

Lying spirits have no form or could they be contained or bound by those things seen that do...... as if we did wrestles against flesh and blood.

What they can produce is lies, nothing more and nothing less.

Revelation 20:1-3 King James Version (KJV)And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Its quite simple

1. We are told a time (a thousand years)
2. We are told what he is bound from (deceiving the nations)

there is no metaphor. Prophecy must be taken literally or it is useless.

Anyone looks at all the wars in the last 100 + years and thinks Satan is not deceiving nations needs to think again.

 

[garee]

You people who believe and teach that Jesus has already come are in for a very big awakening. For by the time the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments have completed, the majority of the earths population will have been decimated and all human government dismantled. If you had done an in depth study of them you would understand this. Regarding this time of God's coming wrath and the kingdom of the beast, Jesus said that "if those days had not been cut short, no one would saved, i.e. left alive.

The inspired prophecy in Revelation in the opening statement is identified as signified . Signs that give a poetic interpretation using metaphors to hide the truth from one and reveal it to a Kingdom of priest.

Proverbs 25:2 It is the "glory of God" to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

If Christ as the power we have in these bodies of death has not already come .Then by what source or power to you believe by?

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

With all due respect it would seem you are reigning with Christ, you show it with the love you have for the gospel .

The faithless jew are looking for a demstration that has already apeared . Some Christians looking for a second demonstration.

Sealing the requirement of the one promised demonstration of the work of the father and Son working together. In respect to the Son of man. The Jews who say they have the father deny him by separating the work of the two that does bring us the peace of God that surpasses all human understanding.

It was altogether one work of two. No father, no son. No Son no father, no God. Know the father, know the son. Know the son, know the father....know God

Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.1 John 2:

One promised outward demonstration. He is here no waiting for him just the last day.[/QUOTE]

 

[garee]

Its quite simple

1. We are told a time (a thousand years)
2. We are told what he is bound from (deceiving the nations)

there is no metaphor. Prophecy must be taken literally or it is useless.

Anyone looks at all the wars in the last 100 + years and thinks Satan is not deceiving nations needs to think again.

The word thousand is used numerous time as a metaphor to represent a unknown or concealed . Search it out as for Silver or Gold .you might find a pearl of great price.

Ok...Prophecy must be taken literally or it is useless to the signified language of God's inspired word? . .

Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

If he did not both send "it" and signify "it" .Then a literal chain could hold back a lying spirit or a literal bottom less pit it could keep it till the last season called the lake of fire. The same idea with a literal hand or serpent. The use of metaphor is overwhelming. . How many words can you find that are used as a metaphor in the first 5 verses of Revelation 20 parable? .

The idea that Prophecy must be taken literally or it is useless just does not make any spiritual sense at all to me..

No one said he is not deceiving the nations as the father of lies .He is bound from appearing with the angels that had not left their first place of habitation.( he fell)

Do you think their father, the father of lies the god of this world is hoping men think he is not active in accusing the brethren day and night? Then it would be easy for them to think the kingdom has come.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The word thousand is used numerous time as a metaphor to represent a unknown or concealed . Search it out as for Silver or Gold .you might find a pearl of great price.

Ok...Prophecy must be taken literally or it is useless to the signified language of God's inspired word? . .

Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

If he did not both send "it" and signify "it" .Then a literal chain could hold back a lying spirit or a literal bottom less pit it could keep it till the last season called the lake of fire. The same idea with a literal hand or serpent. The use of metaphor is overwhelming. . How many words can you find that are used as a metaphor in the first 5 verses of Revelation 20 parable? .

The idea that Prophecy must be taken literally or it is useless just does not make any spiritual sense at all to me..

No one said he is not deceiving the nations as the father of lies .He is bound from appearing with the angels that had not left their first place of habitation.( he fell)

Do you think their father, the father of lies the god of this world is hoping men think he is not active in accusing the brethren day and night? Then it would be easy for them to think the kingdom has come.

You need to look at the OT. God uses prophesy to PROVE who he is, Since no other God can prophecy events, and these events literally come true

If prophesy can be symbolic. Then ANYONE can say God said this, and there is actually NO POSSIBLE way to prove that person is right. And in reality .God is no more a prophet than people like nostrodomus.


Even if thousand can be translated to mean something other than 1000. The things which we are told WILL happen in the time should be literally interpreted. And they would be a SIGN we are in that period.

NOTHING that we were told would happen in that time has occuured in the last 2000 years.

 

[Journeyman]

Anyone who looks at this world even in the last 100 plus years, and thinks Satan is bound, and all that was promised would happened (the things I mentioned in my post) I got to question what they are thinking

God is not a liar If he says it will happen. it will.

They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain Isa.11:9

But ye are come unto mount Zion Heb.12:22

What? I've never been to the Middle East. Were the NT writers smoking marijuana? What's going on?

 

[crossnote]

. Prophecy must be taken literally or it is useless.

As they say, 'Prophecy was literally fulfilled at Christ's first coming so there is no reason to believe it won't be literally fulfilled at his second coming'.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

As they say, 'Prophecy was literally fulfilled at Christ's first coming so there is no reason to believe it won't be literally fulfilled at his second coming'.

Amen,

Many call this using precedence to interpret what is yet to come

If part A was literal. Part B should be translated literally also.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain Isa.11:9

But ye are come unto mount Zion Heb.12:22

What? I've never been to the Middle East. Were the NT writers smoking marijuana? What's going on?

If you read Is 11, There are two events spoken of there.

Heb 22 is speaking of what mount zion represents, and does nto negate what IS the prophet said WILL HAPPEN.

 

[garee]

You need to look at the OT. God uses prophesy to PROVE who he is, Since no other God can prophecy events, and these events literally come true

If prophesy can be symbolic. Then ANYONE can say God said this, and there is actually NO POSSIBLE way to prove that person is right. And in reality .God is no more a prophet than people like nostrodomus.


Even if thousand can be translated to mean something other than 1000. The things which we are told WILL happen in the time should be literally interpreted. And they would be a SIGN we are in that period.

NOTHING that we were told would happen in that time has occuured in the last 2000 years.

I understand that God does use prophecy as a time clock to prove himself .But that one of the uses.

Prophesy is used to symbolize .Without parables (prophecy) Christ spoke not . Hiding the spiritual understanding from the lost (no faith)

Nostrodomus whose faith came from the imagination of own his fleshly mind and evil heart ...... not seeing the things of the faith that alone comes from hearing God as it is written . Nostrodomus's faith (no faith in God) was generated from earth inspired of the devil.

Its the same spirit of lies that works in these so called "out of the body experience or "near death experience" that some use to confirm they have the Holy Spirit.

Jesus as the Son of man in his weakened state of mind (no food for 40 days) resisted "will wokship" (self will) lying spirits bringing in lying wonders had no effect. .

Three times to make it absolute certain as to the once source of Christian faith "as it is written" again and again The vissonary as the god of this world was stuck out and sent to the bottomless dugout.

It becomes which master the flesh Nostrodomusas (or oneself) as that seen or the Sprit unseen , No man can serve two.

Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.Colossian 2:18-23

 

[garee]

As they say, 'Prophecy was literally fulfilled at Christ's first coming so there is no reason to believe it won't be literally fulfilled at his second coming'.

The Prophecy in regard to the previous time period used as a parable was literally fulfilled at Christ's first coming. The time of reformation had come the government was restored to a previous order before there were Kings in Israel. . that time came to a end never to rise again.

Its a work in progress ending on the last day. If he, our confidence began the good work of salvation in us …. he will finish to the last day.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I understand that God does use prophecy as a time clock to prove himself .But that one of the uses.

Time Clock?

No. He uses it to prove who he is, Who else can PROPHESY somethign that happens 2000 years in advance, and it lITERALLY COME TRUE

No other God can do that.

Thats the PURPOSE of prophesy

Prophesy is used to symbolize .Without parables (prophecy) Christ spoke not . Hiding the spiritual understanding from the lost (no faith)

Nostrodomus whose faith came from the imagination of own his fleshly mind and evil heart ...... not seeing the things of the faith that alone comes from hearing God as it is written . Nostrodomus's faith (no faith in God) was generated from earth inspired of the devil.

Its the same spirit of lies that works in these so called "out of the body experience or "near death experience" that some use to confirm they have the Holy Spirit.

Jesus as the Son of man in his weakened state of mind (no food for 40 days) resisted "will wokship" (self will) lying spirits bringing in lying wonders had no effect. .

Three times to make it absolute certain as to the once source of Christian faith "as it is written" again and again The vissonary as the god of this world was stuck out and sent to the bottomless dugout.

It becomes which master the flesh Nostrodomusas (or oneself) as that seen or the Sprit unseen , No man can serve two.

Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.Colossian 2:18-23

Um No. Prophesy is not used to symbolise. Parables or symbolic language are used to symbolise. Granted God does use symbols inside prophesy (ie gentile beasts) but these symbols represent literal things, as proven by the 4 beasts of Daniel. Which literally came true. Just as God PROPHESIED they would

Your mixing up two types of languages God used in scripture

 

[crossnote]

The Prophecy in regard to the previous time period used as a parable was literally fulfilled at Christ's first coming. The time of reformation had come the government was restored to a previous order before there were Kings in Israel. . that time came to a end never to rise again.

Its a work in progress ending on the last day. If he, our confidence began the good work of salvation in us …. he will finish to the last day.

Sorry, but I don't have a clue as to what you are saying in relation to my post which you responded to.

 

[noblenut]

Does the NT allow the possibility of ultimate postmortem release from Hell? I'm raising this issue because of another thread started by someone who finds himself in a battle to retain his faith over the difficulty of believing in eternal damnation. This thread will focus on this issue from the perspective of Jesus, Peter, Paul, and the Book of Revelation in that order.

Knowledge of the original languages is important for understanding Scripture, partly because there is often no one-to-one exact English equivalent for Hebrew and Greek theological terms. Important examples are the Hebrew ("olam") and Greek ("aionios") words often translated "eternal." In fact, both words can mean "for a long time" and "enduring." Thus, in the Testaments of the 12 Patriarchs the death of Isaac can be described as "enduring (aionios) sleep" with the implication of ultimate postmortem survival. Consider these 3 NT examples where "aionios" does not mean "eternal:
(a) " that you should receive him (Onesimus) forever (aionion"--better translated "for good"--Philemon 25)."
(b) the use of aionios" in the plural to mean "long ages" in Romans 16:25 and 1 Timothy 1:9
(C) the frequent use of "aionios" by the Greek Septuagint to translate the Hebrew "olam, which means "for a long time"

(1) JESUS' TEACHING ABOUT GEHENNA:

The ancient Jewish concept of "Gehenna" is inspired by the ancient use of the valley of Hinnom by an idolatrous cult that passed children through fire. Ancient Aramaic theological terms like "Gehenna" derive their meaning from their use in the contemporary Palestinian culture. Jesus’ concept of Gehenna must be viewed against the background of ancient rabbinic perspectives, which are nicely summarized with copious documentation in the excellent Anchor Bible Dictionary article [Vol. 2]: “Most of those [Jews] who enter it [Gehenna] in the intermediate state would be released from it…It was a fiery purgatory for those Jews whose merits and transgressions balanced one another who would afterward be admitted to Paradise. Often the punishment of Gehenna was restricted to 12 months.”

Jesus’ parable of the unforgiving servant uses a debtor’s prison as an image for the limited duration of punishment in Gehenna: “And in his anger his lord handed him over to be tortured until he would pay his entire debt (Matthew 18:34).” Here the debt’s payment and ultimate release remain a possibility. How the debt might be paid off remains unclear, but expiation and purgation remain possibilities. Remember, “debt” (Aramaic: “chob”) is the Aramaic term for “sin” that inspires this image of Hell as a debtor’s prison.

More controversial is the related possibility that Matthew 5:25-26 refers to Gehenna:

“Make friends quickly with your accuser while you are on the way to court with him, or your accuser may hand you over to the Judge, and the Judge to the guard, and you will be thrown into prison. Truly I tell you, you will never get out until you pay the last penny.”

The symbolic interpretation of the prison as Gehenna seems preferable for 4 reasons:
(1) This saying makes little sense if taken literally. Jesus would in effect be saying: “Let me tell you how to beat the rap of criminal charges. Wait till you and your accuser are actually on the road on the way to court and then kiss up to him.”
(2) "Jesus always applies the formula “Truly I say to you” to our relationship with God, never to a purely secular issue like a court proceeding.
(3) In the first 2 centuries this saying is always interpreted symbolically.
(4) In the Lukan context (12:57-59) the saying is located in an eschatological context.
That said, Matthew 18:34 removes the necessity of invoking this saying to establish Jesus’ image of Gehenna as a debtor’s prison.

Jesus’ image of “few stripes” as an image of punishment in Gehenna implies a finite limit and therefore ultimate release: “The slave who did not know and did what deserved a beating will be beaten with few stripes (Luke 12:48).”

As for Jesus’ view that people who don’t follow Him can be saved, Mark 9:40 is certainly relevant: “Whoever is not against us is for us.”

i been to hell spiritually and its the worse place, but it can be for peoples salvation if they repent, as for sheol there is a resurrection for the dead but the second death is forever

 

[Journeyman]

If you read Is 11, There are two events spoken of there.

[COLOR=rgb(41, 105, 176)
[B]Heb 22 is speaking of what mount zion represents, and does nto negate what IS the prophet said WILL HAPPEN.[/COLOR][/B]

Well, the NT shows us to regard the OT in Christ. For instance,

Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. Lk.18:29

I've never heard one paator teach this as the point Jesus was making in the story about the rich man and Lazarus.

Christian theologians have distorted Jesus's teachings. People who are waiting for a future war that Jesus wage against the beast, are missing the war.