Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

[Guojing]

I am certain that God is the same today as God was at creation and God's plan of salvation was set at creation. There is nowhere in scripture that says the OT people had different requirements of "doing" than the requirements we have. If they did then we do not have a God we can depend on, God could not be trusted to control our world with love for God could change. I don't think God changed anything.

As for your first point, I agree with you, God does not change in terms of the plan for salvation, salvation has always been by grace thru faith. This was true under law and remains true under grace. Grace is always from God but faith comes from us.

What changes is how we displayed faith. While the principles of God never change, His
dealings with men, do change from time to time.

This includes even the terms of acceptance with God. At first blood sacrifices were required (Gen. 4:3-5, Heb. 11:4); then, later, circumcision was added (Gen. 17:14); then obedience to the whole Mosaic law was demanded (Ex. 19:5, 6, Rom. 10:5); then "the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins" (Mark 1:4, Acts 2:38)

and today it is

"TO HIM THAT WORKETH NOT, BUT BELIEVETH ON HIM THAT
JUSTIFIETH THE UNGODLY; HIS FAITH IS COUNTED FOR
RIGHTEOUSNESS” (Rom. 4:5).

During the age of the law, you exhibit faith by "obeying the law", all the Jews have to obey the law. It is true that all the saints of past ages were saved through the merits of Christ's shed blood, but not through their faith in that shed blood.

Those of past ages were expected to believe only what God had thus far revealed, or what He had revealed to them. In other words, they were saved simply because they trusted God and believed what He said. The full plan of salvation has since been unfolded, but the Scriptures make it crystal clear that these believers were saved without even understanding that Christ would die for them.

When God says, "Sacrifice an animal every time you sin," what will faith do? Just one thing: sacrifice an animal whenever you sin. We know, thanks to Hebrews, that such sacrifices are a mere shadow of the coming Jesus as the final Lamb, yet not one of their hearers would have interpreted this action to mean what it meant in Paul's Gospel: "Trust in the death of Christ for salvation."

But once the age of grace began, this is now what is required to show faith.

"BUT NOW the righteousness of God without the law is manifested" (Rom. 3:21);

"To him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Rom. 4:5)

"Being Justified freely by His grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Rom. 3:24);

"In whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins according to the riches of His grace" (Eph. 1:7);

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us" (Tit. 3:5);

"Not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast" (Eph. 2:8,9)

When God now says this, what will faith do? Faith will say, "This is the most wonderful offer ever made by God to man. I cannot refuse it. I will trust Christ as my Savior and accept salvation as the free gift of God's grace."

Trust me when I tell you, everyone else from the Old Testament, King David, Noah, even the 4 Gospels guys such as Peter, James and John, will be very envious about you.

Their conditions for showing faith were not as simple as what we have to do, under the age of Grace.

Noah had to build an ark. (Hebrews 11:7)

Abel had to bring the correct sacrifice (Gen 4:4-5, Heb. 11:4)

Abraham had to believe, at his advanced years, that God would make him a father of many (Genesis 15:5-6)

Rahab had to hide the spies, at the risk of being caught and punished (Hebrews 11:31)

The point is that, by the time it reach us Gentiles, thanks to Jesus ushering the age of Grace, all we need to do, in order to display faith, is simply believing and speaking.

 

[Guojing]

The cross was a mystery until after the resurrection. There is no such thing as “looking forward” to the cross. Those OT saints lived by their own faith in what God’s word that He gave them at that time. Obedience was necessary but even then salvation was not obtained.

Yes, I was asking a rhetorical question to Bilk who stated

Salvation has been through what Christ did for us from the time Adam fell.

 

[Dino246]

Christians must start thinking Spiritually, which refers to the fact that everything is furnished to us through the Cross

Where is that in Scripture?

Many Christians say you put too much emphasis on the Cross. I remind you that the Apostle Paul said, "We preach Christ Crucified (1 Cor. 1:23). He also said, "For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and Him Crucified (1 Cor. 2:2). Notice two subjects: Christ and the Cross.

No, the two subjects are Christ and Him crucified!

The operation of the Holy Spirit is accomplished through Faith and Grace. Romans 8:2

Hogwash. Here's what Romans 8:2 actually says:

"because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death." (NIV)

There is nothing in that verse about "operation of the Holy Spirit", nothing about "accomplishing through", and nothing about faith and grace.

As I stated before, when I talk about placing your Faith in Christ, 100% understand that. When I talk about placing your Faith in the Cross, 99% on this form don’t have the foggiest idea what you are talking about. They think you are talking about a wooden beam...it is the same with most Christians.

Critical statistics only have value when backed up by a real survey with real questions. These are meaningless numbers you invented to slam people who disagree with you. I know exactly what you mean, and I think your overemphasis on the cross borders on idolatry.

 

[KnowMe]

Where is that in Scripture?


No, the two subjects are Christ and Him crucified!

Hogwash. Here's what Romans 8:2 actually says:

"because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death." (NIV)

There is nothing in that verse about "operation of the Holy Spirit", nothing about "accomplishing through", and nothing about faith and grace.


Critical statistics only have value when backed up by a real survey with real questions. These are meaningless numbers you invented to slam people who disagree with you. I know exactly what you mean, and I think your overemphasis on the cross borders on idolatry.

I agree 99%, I must of miss that pole.

 

[KnowMe]

I’ve wondered why God tolerated almost 400 years of crucifixing people on a cross after Jesus.

 

[JaumeJ]

Can a person be saved if their faith is in Jesus only and not in the Cross of Calvary where the victory was won, i.e., "The Finished Work," i.e., "The Blood of Jesus?" [/QUOT
One shouts the other always. No avoiding this. God bless you.

 

[posthuman]

"For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and Him Crucified (1 Cor. 2:2). Notice two subjects: Christ and the Cross.

that seems to me to be exactly one subject .. ?

As I stated before, when I talk about placing your Faith in Christ, 100% understand that. When I talk about placing your Faith in the Cross, 99% on this form don’t have the foggiest idea what you are talking about.

there are admittedly two things here i don't understand

1. why are you trying to separate who Christ is from what Christ has accomplished?
2. am i talking to a person or are you just copy-pasting more Jimmy Swaggart quotes?

 

[Jackson123]

Can a person be saved if their faith is in Jesus only and not in the Cross of Calvary where the victory was won, i.e., "The Finished Work," i.e., "The Blood of Jesus?"

Faith is in Jesus alone, I never heart faith in the cross.

Yes Jesus say if you not take your cross you not worthy to be my disciple.

If we take the cross is that mean we have faith in the cross? No our faith is in Jesus

And if we have faith in Jesus, we become like Jesus

We become like Jesus not in the sense we become God, we still human, but Jesus in our heart will make us like Him in the way how we love other.

The cross is love to the point willing to suffer for other.

Take the cross mean love our fellow men to the point willing to suffer for them.

Stephen love people and show people the way to heaven and for that he willing to die. This is cross all about.

Jesus love people to the point to die on the cross to purchase our sin

 

[Hungry]

Can a person be saved if their faith is in Jesus only and not in the Cross of Calvary where the victory was won, i.e., "The Finished Work," i.e., "The Blood of Jesus?"

I have concluded that it is faith in being forgiven that restores us to God. God is our Master, but puts us under the authority of Christ. Faith restores you to God to serve Him as the Body of Christ, until the resurrection, and then we will receive an inheritance in the New Earth as lords, serving the King. Hence the crowns.

 

[TMS]

Heb 8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

We can learn from the old testament shadows.
Could you ask for forgiveness in the old testament without blood? no.
Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

His life, death and resurrection are all important and it's good to understand why.

 

[mailmandan]

Yes, the gate is straight and narrow.

John 10:9 - I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
John 14:6 - Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
Acts 4:12 - Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.

 

[Blik]

You are making 2 different points and I will address them separately. Let me address the last point first.

There are earthly consequences, horizontal ones, whenever you sin. If you steal and murder, you will go to jail and may get the death penalty, nothing to do with God.

What I am talking about are vertical consequences, from God. For David, God told him thru the prophet Nathan, that his son will die. It is God that took his son away from him. What I am saying is that, David was punished by God.

And when he saw the future, when he saw us, he was envious about us because he could see that we are living in a different covenant he had, that God will not punish us in any way, when we sin. Because someone else, Jesus took the penalty from God for our sins.

Again, let me stress this revelation will break the power of sin in all of us, not cause us to go ahead and sin.

That stuff and junk about the additional covenant being a replacement covenant is not scripture. It is new, it is better, but it cancels nothing.

Scripture does not say that God killed David's son, it is the consequences of sin that killed the son of David.

 

[Guojing]

That stuff and junk about the additional covenant being a replacement covenant is not scripture. It is new, it is better, but it cancels nothing.

Scripture does not say that God killed David's son, it is the consequences of sin that killed the son of David.

Unlike you, I will not claim you have not read the scriptures. Let me quote it to you 2 Sam 12 and you tell me how you interpret the words in bold, I will be most interested if there is one that will interpret the words differently. KJV.

13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the Lord. And Nathan said unto David, The Lord also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.

14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.

15 And Nathan departed unto his house. And the Lord struck the child that Uriah's wife bare unto David, and it was very sick.

16 David therefore besought God for the child; and David fasted, and went in, and lay all night upon the earth.

17 And the elders of his house arose, and went to him, to raise him up from the earth: but he would not, neither did he eat bread with them.

18 And it came to pass on the seventh day, that the child died. And the servants of David feared to tell him that the child was dead: for they said, Behold, while the child was yet alive, we spake unto him, and he would not hearken unto our voice: how will he then vex himself, if we tell him that the child is dead?

19 But when David saw that his servants whispered, David perceived that the child was dead: therefore David said unto his servants, Is the child dead? And they said, He is dead.

20 Then David arose from the earth, and washed, and anointed himself, and changed his apparel, and came into the house of the Lord, and worshipped: then he came to his own house; and when he required, they set bread before him, and he did eat.

21 Then said his servants unto him, What thing is this that thou hast done? thou didst fast and weep for the child, while it was alive; but when the child was dead, thou didst rise and eat bread.

22 And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether God will be gracious to me, that the child may live?

23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.

And in Romans 4, Paul stated

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

To me, David could not be talking about himself in this passage, because his adultery sin was imputed to him, leading to the death of his son. But he saw us being so blessed under the new covenant, that the Lord will never ever impute our sin to us.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

“FALSE PROPHETS AND DECEPTIONS

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves (“beware of false prophets” is said in the sternest of measures! there will be and are false prophets, and are some of Satan’s greatest weapons).

16 You shall know them by their fruits (this is the test as given by Christ as it regards identification of false prophets and false apostles). Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? (It is impossible for false doctrine, generated by false prophets, to bring forth good fruit.)

17 Even so every good tree brings forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit (the good fruit is Christlikeness, while the evil fruit is self-likeness).

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit (the “good tree” is the Cross, while the “corrupt tree” pertains to all of that which is other than the Cross).

19 Every tree that brings not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire (Judgment will ultimately come on all so-called gospel, other than the Cross [Rom. 1:18]).

20 Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them (the acid test).” Matthew 7:15-20

JSM

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

The sad fact remains that there are precious few that will choose this road. Are you one? Which road are you on?!

Works of iniquity

“21 Not every one who says unto Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven (the repetition of the word “Lord” expresses astonishment, as if to say: “Are we to be disowned?”); but he who does the Will of My Father which is in Heaven (what is the Will of the Father? Verse 23 tells us).

22 Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not Prophesied in Your Name? and in Your Name have cast out devils? and in Your Name done many wonderful works? (These things are not the criteria, but rather Faith in Christ and what Christ has done for us at the Cross [Eph. 2:8-9, 13-18]. The Word of God alone is to be the judge of doctrine.)

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you (again we say, the criteria alone is Christ and Him Crucified [I Cor. 1:23]): depart from Me, you who work iniquity (we have access to God only through Christ, and access to Christ only through the Cross, and access to the Cross only through a denial of self [Lk. 9:23]; any other Message is Judged by God as “iniquity,” and cannot be a part of Christ [I Cor. 1:17]).” Matthew 7:21-23

JSM

 

[Guojing]

That stuff and junk about the additional covenant being a replacement covenant is not scripture. It is new, it is better, but it cancels nothing.

As for this particular point, the author of Hebrews made it clear in chapter 8. Again tell me how you will interpret the words

5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

 

[Dino246]

15“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Once again, I fixed it for you.

You'd do well to quote from a Bible instead of a commentary.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Once again, I fixed it for you.

You'd do well to quote from a Bible instead of a commentary.

The Spirit of God comes into the heart and life of the new Believer by simply by trusting Christ, and what He did at the Cross. O foolish Dino246, who has bewitched you, that you should not obey the truth (refers to "Jesus Christ and Him Crucified"), before whose eyes Jesus Christ has been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

Why do you practice Salvation by "Faith," and Sanctification by "self?" The Righteousness of God is imputed to a person only on the basis of Faith in Christ, and what Christ has done at the Cross. Romans 4:5

“18 For the preaching (Message) of the Cross is to them who perish foolishness (Spiritual things cannot be discerned by unredeemed people, but that doesn’t matter; the Cross must be preached just the same, even as we shall see); but unto us who are Saved it is the Power of God. (The Cross is the Power of God simply because it was there that the total sin debt was paid, giving the Holy Spirit, in Whom the Power resides, latitude to work mightily within our lives.)

19 For it is written (Isa. 29:14), I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent (speaks to those who are wise in their own eyes, in effect, having forsaken the Ways of the Lord).” 1 Cor. 1:18-19

You will continue not to see or hear due to spiritual deafness and spiritual blindness.

“18 I counsel you to buy of Me gold tried in the fire, that you may be rich (what they needed to “buy” could not be purchased with money, but only with the precious Blood of Christ, which price has already been paid; but the modern Church is not interested!); and white raiment, that you may be clothed, and that the shame of your nakedness do not appear (refers to Righteousness which is exclusively of Christ, and is gained only by Faith in Christ and the Cross; this tells us that the Laodicean Church is extremely self-righteous; not having the Righteousness of Christ, they are “naked” to the Judgment of God); and anoint your eyes with eyesalve, that you may see. (The modern Church is also spiritually blind.)” Rev. 3:18

JSM

 

[Dino246]

The Spirit of God comes into the heart and life of the new Believer by simply by trusting Christ, and what He did at the Cross. O foolish Dino246, who has bewitched you, that you should not obey the truth (refers to "Jesus Christ and Him Crucified"), before whose eyes Jesus Christ has been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

Jesus is Lord. Go and read 1 Corinthians 12:3--in a real Bible--and stop making ridiculous and false accusations.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Jesus is Lord. Go and read 1 Corinthians 12:3--in a real Bible--and stop making ridiculous and false accusations.

“19 You believe that there is one God (presents the type of Faith held by hundreds of millions, but in which there is no saving grace); you do well (you think you do well!): the devils also believe, and tremble. (Simply believing there is a God says no more than what demons believe. Proper Faith will accept the Lord as one’s Saviour.)”

JSM