A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES

[eternally-gratefull]

The context of 1 Cor 14 is time and place...

no.

Paul said he would rather teach in words understandable.


You teach in church. Or at a meeting

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm not so sure - re-read the passages about blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, and then tell me those who deny an authentic occurrence aren't committing that very act.

No one here is blaspheming the HS.

If you think they are, we have major problems

 

[jb]

How can a non Charismatic/Pentecostal Christian who has not experienced the gift give an honest explanation of it!

 

[dcontroversal]

And isn't denying Biblical tongues a SIGN OF UNBELIEF? Isn't denying an authentic use of them as an act of the Holy Spirit by default then attributing it to satan?

No....that is not the context....the context is believing that Jesus is of God amd his ministry was of the Holy Spirit's power.........it had nothing to do with languages

 

[dcontroversal]

Exactly.........and the fact that is was SPOKEN LANGUAGES.....

 

[dcontroversal]

Right, just like it's not my fault people can't understand the simple word "perfect."

Sure...the Greek word translated perfect by the king jimmy translators means complete.....and does NOT MEAN perfect in the way we use the word today!!!

teleios: having reached its end, i.e. complete, by ext. perfect
Original Word: τέλειος, α, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: teleios
Phonetic Spelling: (tel'-i-os)
Definition: having reached its end, complete, perfect
Usage: perfect, (a) complete in all its parts, (b) full grown, of full age, (c) specially of the completeness of Christian Character

 

[dcontroversal]

And that hasn't been done here?!

Not at all......I believe Jesus was/is from God and his earthly ministry was accomplished by the power of the Holy Spirit......

 

[VCO]

No one here is blaspheming the HS.

If you think they are, we have major problems

They are TAUGHT that anyone who does not think that Tongues are for today, is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Most of them believe that common teaching among Charismatics and Pentecostals alike. I have been been accused of blaspheming the Holy Spirit, SO MANY TIMES IN THE PAST, that I could not even come close to numbering them.

I know it has NOTHING TO DO WITH TONGUES, but they will not even read my explanation. Some one needs to teach them what it means to be guilty of the one unforgivable SIN, and how it has nothing to do with their precious holy grail, but I know from past experience almost none will receive it from me.

 

[VCO]

1 Corinthians 13:8 (ESV)
8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away.

I guess I should explain the difference between Pass Away and Cease.

Pass Away - is it will be CAUSED to Pass Away, and most likely that is the RETURN of CHRIST.

CEASE - is it will cease to exist on it's own, when it's purpose is fulfilled.


My understanding is, this verse describes Genuine TONGUES Purpose:


Mark 16:20 (HCSB)
20 And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word by the accompanying signs.


So when the New Testament was COMPLETE, Genuine TONGUES Ceased.

 

[UnderGrace]

They are TAUGHT that anyone who does not think that Tongues are for today, is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Most of them believe that common teaching among Charismatics and Pentecostals alike. I have been been accused of blaspheming the Holy Spirit, SO MANY TIMES IN THE PAST, that I could not even come close to numbering them.

I know it has NOTHING TO DO WITH TONGUES, but they will not even read my explanation. Some one needs to teach them what it means to be guilty of the one unforgivable SIN, and how it has nothing to do with their precious holy grail, but I know from past experience almost none will receive it from me.

This does explain a lot, no wonder they take so much offense if we show/posit it is not of the Holy Spirit

 

[dcontroversal]

They are TAUGHT that anyone who does not think that Tongues are for today, is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Most of them believe that common teaching among Charismatics and Pentecostals alike. I have been been accused of blaspheming the Holy Spirit, SO MANY TIMES IN THE PAST, that I could not even come close to numbering them.

I know it has NOTHING TO DO WITH TONGUES, but they will not even read my explanation. Some one needs to teach them what it means to be guilty of the one unforgivable SIN, and how it has nothing to do with their precious holy grail, but I know from past experience almost none will receive it from me.

Amen....same here.......amd what was described as blasphemy of the H.S. was denying the work of Christ as from GOD.....IT HAD ZERO to do with languages....!!!

 

[notuptome]

This does explain a lot, no wonder they take so much offense if we show/posit it is not of the Holy Spirit

Add to that the personal belief that these tongues are an evidence of their salvation and a huge part of their worship you have a really difficult situation to deal with. Many of the Pentecostal charismatic folks are believers who have simply been led astray. There are more than a few in every church that are not saved.

I wonder what the stats are on Pentecostal charismatic not believing in the security of the believer and the rapture. Another interesting profile would be the influence of the necessity of water baptism for salvation. Just musing.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[ChristianLife]

I can speak in tongues but presently I am not convinced it is more than babbling nonsensically so I cannot have an opinion on the topic. On the other hand I agree that it is not an issue worth arguing about. Derek Prince speaks in tongues and while I am not convinced it's a real thing, he has still been very effective in his ministry and I agree with most of his theology and enjoy his powerful teachings. I believe that he has made it into eternity and I will see him and meet him one day in eternity so that will be cool.

 

[VCO]

Never said anything about Knowledge, the Bible says only Tongues will cease.


Now I KNOW we have a common interest Christian Music. And your spirit and mine can minister to each other on that subject, even though we differ on Tongues.


I have a Music Thread called: WHAT KIND OF CHRISTIAN MUSIC BLESSES YOUR HEART.
https://christianchat.com/christian...-of-christian-music-blesses-your-heart.89552/

When they changed it to this NEW FORMAT, the older formatted videos, you will have to go to YouTube to get them to play. I have a WIDE VARIETY OF MUSIC THAT BLESSES MY HEART. Here is a rather new one that can bless my socks off, every time I play it:

Do you like to listen to GOSPEL music from a Foreign Country ?

Here is Emmy Kosgei from Kenya, I am convinced that if the LORD choses her to lead the Singing all the way to HEAVEN, I will be Perfectly Happy.
"Hallelujah" and Jehovah are the same in their language:

 

[Scribe]

This entire teaching is wood hay and stubble.

 

[kaylagrl]

They are TAUGHT that anyone who does not think that Tongues are for today, is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Most of them believe that common teaching among Charismatics and Pentecostals alike. I have been been accused of blaspheming the Holy Spirit, SO MANY TIMES IN THE PAST, that I could not even come close to numbering them.

I know it has NOTHING TO DO WITH TONGUES, but they will not even read my explanation. Some one needs to teach them what it means to be guilty of the one unforgivable SIN, and how it has nothing to do with their precious holy grail, but I know from past experience almost none will receive it from me.

Ok, flip that coin. Want to know how many times I've heard people tell me I believe you can't be saved unless you speak in tongues. Then argue black and blue with you when you tell them you don't believe that? Want to know how many times I've heard speaking in tongues is from demons? That's it's gibberish, or made up? I've heard the same thing for years. Do you understand there are two sides to it?

 

[kaylagrl]

Add to that the personal belief that these tongues are an evidence of their salvation

See VOC? Everyone lumped in together. Does every Baptist believe OSAS and all of TULIP? No! Most mainstream Pentecostals do not believe tongues has anything to do with salvation. But we are accused of believing it because the holiness do, or some independent church does. See the other side of the coin?

There are more than a few in every church that are not saved.

Roger this is a ridiculous comment coming from someone like you. I thought you were more level headed. Where are your facts to back up this claim? See VOC? Understand where I'm coming from?

I wonder what the stats are on Pentecostal charismatic not believing in the security of the believer and the rapture.

I believe in the rapture and eternal security of the believer. I believe you are eternally secure as long as remain in Him. I believe you can chose to walk away, you say they were never saved in the first place. Either way they end up in hell if they don't repent. BTW I don't know of any Pentecostals nor Charismatics that don't believe in the rapture.

Another interesting profile would be the influence of the necessity of water baptism for salvation.

Once again, VOC, are you reading along? Holiness believe in water baptism for salvation, most Pentecostals do not nor do Charismatics. Thanks Roger for making my point.

 

[garee]

I can speak in tongues but presently I am not convinced it is more than babbling nonsensically so I cannot have an opinion on the topic. On the other hand I agree that it is not an issue worth arguing about. Derek Prince speaks in tongues and while I am not convinced it's a real thing, he has still been very effective in his ministry and I agree with most of his theology and enjoy his powerful teachings. I believe that he has made it into eternity and I will see him and meet him one day in eternity so that will be cool.

I would agree not a salvation issue .The matter is more of how can we hear God through prophecy . The sign reflects those who do not hear and therefore refuse to believe prophecy being warned yet they will not hear. .

Not a salvation issue but one that cannot be ignored it effects any what some call "sign gifts". Two words that are not used together to represent a blessing. (No such thing we walk by faith, the unseen, eternal ) If it is not corrected with tongues as with other spiritual unseen gifts it can be turned upside down and other oral tradition of those who seek after signs to confirm the Holy Spirit is working are added. (falling back slain in the Spirit, Holy laughter, Holy crying etc.) No sign gift. No need.

 

[garee]

See VOC? Everyone lumped in together. Does every Baptist believe OSAS and all of TULIP? No! Most mainstream Pentecostals do not believe tongues has anything to do with salvation. But we are accused of believing it because the holiness do, or some independent church does. See the other side of the coin?

What does the holiness do? Who are they ?

Most mainstream Christians don't believe the rosary has any thing to do with salvation. But recognize it as a tool of the father of lies for widening the authority of all things written in the law and the prophets (sola scriptura) . We serve one teaching master, as it is written, no signs is the other side of the coin .

 

[eternally-gratefull]

They are TAUGHT that anyone who does not think that Tongues are for today, is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Most of them believe that common teaching among Charismatics and Pentecostals alike. I have been been accused of blaspheming the Holy Spirit, SO MANY TIMES IN THE PAST, that I could not even come close to numbering them.

I know it has NOTHING TO DO WITH TONGUES, but they will not even read my explanation. Some one needs to teach them what it means to be guilty of the one unforgivable SIN, and how it has nothing to do with their precious holy grail, but I know from past experience almost none will receive it from me.

I would not say all of them do..its dangerous to lump all into one thing..

However, from what one prticular said, he may have just been exposed. Will wait for his reply.