The house of Israel

ForestGreenCook · Mar 27, 2019

What is the House of Israel? We understand that the Nation of Israel was God's favored nation in the old testament and that all Israel was not of Israel. God denounced the nation of Israel due to their unfaithfulness and gave it to the Gentiles. The house of Israel, which seems to be representative of God's elect, because God changed Jacob's name to be called no more Jacob, but to be called Israel (Gen 32:28). I am asking for the help and input from the members of this forum about this concept, sense I have not done an in-depth study on this concept. God choose Jacob over Esau to show that his elect might stand. God instructed his apostles to go preach to the "lost sheep" of "the house of Israel, which is Jacob (God's elect). If they are sheep, then they have already been given eternal life, but they do not know that the "kingdom of heaven" (Christ's church) is at hand. It would seem to me that when the scriptures talk about Israel, they are referring to Jacob who is representative of God's elect. Isaiah 46:3 - Hearken unto me, O house of Jacob, and all the remnant of the house of Israel, which are borne by me from the belly, which are carried from the womb: Heb 8:10 - For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel (Jacob), after those days sayeth the Lord, I will put my laws into their minds, and write them in their hearts; and I will be unto them a God, and they shall be unto me a people. Awaiting your input.

obedienttogod · Mar 27, 2019

Since we know the true word for Mercy means Mercies, we now know that Abraham till Yeshua arrived were ALL SAVED by the ENDLESS MERCIES of God.

When Yeshua was on Earth, He instructed those who listened that He was here for the SOLE PURPOSE of God's Mercy.

So, at His Crucifixion, the Mercy of God was unleashed upon the Hebrew Heritage.
Also, at His Crucifixion, the Grace of God was unleashed upon the Gentile Heritage.

So here, we have MERCY and GRACE acting in the SAME MANNER!!

Now that we know God unleashed His MERCY upon the Hebrew Heritage at the Crucifixion, we know that God has also RESTORED ISRAEL.

We know this by 1947, by 10 million Jews now living in Israel after being scattered, by them returning to their Heritage and Traditions under the Mosaic Law, by those Heritage who converted unto Yeshua as Messianic Jews, and we know by them having EVERY PIECE of the Temple built...they are just waiting to be able to assemble it and commence Daily Sacrifice.

Daniel speaks clearly about Daily Sacrifice in Chapter 12. When Daily Sacrifice ENDS...this is when we know the antichrist rules.

So therefore, I disagree God has completely disregarded His Chosen People. He has them in place for End Time Events. The setting for Revelation's Chapter 12 is in place. We just now need God to decide, this is the DAY I begin the Final Count Down!!

obedienttogod · Mar 27, 2019

Just to put your thinking cap on:

From Book of Enoch, we know Abraham lived with Noah and Ham.

From our Bible, we know Abraham had Ishmael (Muslim), and we know after Sarah died, Abraham married a woman whose descendant was what would be today, Muslim. His children's names from this woman are names of mountain ranges in Muslim Land.

So, we also know from the Koran, it's based off the ideas of Abraham ----it get's screwy after the ideas of Mohammed are introduced.

But, Abraham taught the Muslim People, his own family, that God was the God of MERCY, endless Mercy. God was Abraham's personal High Priest, Melchizedek. God had Endless Mercy upon Abraham. But this is where we understand that Allah is Merciful. If you remove the teachings of Mohammed, you have the basics of what Abraham taught them, like he taught his Hebrew son and grandson.

MERCY, is the Old Testament's version of the New Testament's Grace!!

Chester · Mar 27, 2019

ForestGreenCook said:

Not sure I can follow what all you are trying to say here. You throw a lot of ideas together and melt it all into one long paragraph with unclear connections. But, anyway, I have been an English teacher, so enough of my English lecture! . . .

So I will just make a few comments.

It seems like you are saying that the "house of Israel" is something different from "Israel"? And then that the "house of Israel" is the same as "Jacob" and then that Jacob is "representative of God's elect" - so then I think you are saying that the "house of Israel is God's elect which is the church".

I am very, very leary of pulling together a string of this means this because in this Scripture it means that but in that Scripture that means this and hence in the first Scripture this means that . . . you are probably confused now - and so you should be . . . .

I am quite a simpleton when it comes to Scripture interpretation: just read it and take it face value literally unless the literal makes no sense:

so Heb. 8: 9,10 for example:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

He says "house of Israel" here so if it makes sense to take it as literally Israel then take it as such. Well verse 9 very clearly is linking it to literally Israel, so we cannot change verse 10 to some sort of "spiritual Israel". Verse 10 simply means what it says. Sometime (after those days) the Jews will have the law of God in their hearts and will once again worship God and be His people.

obedienttogod · Mar 27, 2019

The LAW was designed to kill, but God's Mercy would be enough until the Messiah, who fulfilled the Endless Mercy upon the Hebrew Heritage!!

JaumeJ · Mar 27, 2019

ForestGreenCook said:

What is the House of Israel? We understand that the Nation of Israel was God's favored nation in the old testament and that all Israel was not of Israel. God denounced the nation of Israel due to their unfaithfulness and gave it to the Gentiles. The house of Israel, which seems to be representative of God's elect, because God changed Jacob's name to be called no more Jacob, but to be called Israel (Gen 32:28). I am asking for the help and input from the members of this forum about this concept, sense I have not done an in-depth study on this concept. God choose Jacob over Esau to show that his elect might stand. God instructed his apostles to go preach to the "lost sheep" of "the house of Israel, which is Jacob (God's elect). If they are sheep, then they have already been given eternal life, but they do not know that the "kingdom of heaven" (Christ's church) is at hand. It would seem to me that when the scriptures talk about Israel, they are referring to Jacob who is representative of God's elect. Isaiah 46:3 - Hearken unto me, O house of Jacob, and all the remnant of the house of Israel, which are borne by me from the belly, which are carried from the womb: Heb 8:10 - For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel (Jacob), after those days sayeth the Lord, I will put my laws into their minds, and write them in their hearts; and I will be unto them a God, and they shall be unto me a people. Awaiting your input.

Read in the letter to the Ephesians if yu would like a quick understanding of the true Issrael, the true heirs of the Kingdom.

Lanolin · Mar 27, 2019

ForestGreenCook said:

The house of Israel is Jacobs 12 sons and their descendedants. They were grouped into tribes and named after each son...in no particular order....reuben, simeon, gad, asher, zebulon, napthali, benjamin, judah, levi, jospeh, isachaar, manasseh

For gentiles, who are adopted into abrahams blessing to his heirs through isaac and jacob, we become grafted into the house of Israel. jesus appointed twelve apostles to represent each of the twelve sons.

Hope this helps...if you read the bible in order it will be clear as it starts from the genesis when abraham has a son, isaac, and isaac has a son, one of twins, called jacob, and then jacob has 12 sons (and one daughter) with two wives. And then they all have children...and so on.

ForestGreenCook · Mar 27, 2019

obedienttogod said:

Since we know the true word for Mercy means Mercies, we now know that Abraham till Yeshua arrived were ALL SAVED by the ENDLESS MERCIES of God.

When Yeshua was on Earth, He instructed those who listened that He was here for the SOLE PURPOSE of God's Mercy.

So, at His Crucifixion, the Mercy of God was unleashed upon the Hebrew Heritage.
Also, at His Crucifixion, the Grace of God was unleashed upon the Gentile Heritage.

So here, we have MERCY and GRACE acting in the SAME MANNER!!

Now that we know God unleashed His MERCY upon the Hebrew Heritage at the Crucifixion, we know that God has also RESTORED ISRAEL.

We know this by 1947, by 10 million Jews now living in Israel after being scattered, by them returning to their Heritage and Traditions under the Mosaic Law, by those Heritage who converted unto Yeshua as Messianic Jews, and we know by them having EVERY PIECE of the Temple built...they are just waiting to be able to assemble it and commence Daily Sacrifice.

Daniel speaks clearly about Daily Sacrifice in Chapter 12. When Daily Sacrifice ENDS...this is when we know the antichrist rules.

So therefore, I disagree God has completely disregarded His Chosen People. He has them in place for End Time Events. The setting for Revelation's Chapter 12 is in place. We just now need God to decide, this is the DAY I begin the Final Count Down!!

Do you understand that Jesus only died for those that God gave him? Who do you think the ones that he died for are and do you think they will all be in heaven? I believe those that God gave him are his elect.

ForestGreenCook · Mar 27, 2019

Chester said:

Not sure I can follow what all you are trying to say here. You throw a lot of ideas together and melt it all into one long paragraph with unclear connections. But, anyway, I have been an English teacher, so enough of my English lecture! . . .

So I will just make a few comments.

It seems like you are saying that the "house of Israel" is something different from "Israel"? And then that the "house of Israel" is the same as "Jacob" and then that Jacob is "representative of God's elect" - so then I think you are saying that the "house of Israel is God's elect which is the church".

I am very, very leary of pulling together a string of this means this because in this Scripture it means that but in that Scripture that means this and hence in the first Scripture this means that . . . you are probably confused now - and so you should be . . . .

I am quite a simpleton when it comes to Scripture interpretation: just read it and take it face value literally unless the literal makes no sense:

so Heb. 8: 9,10 for example:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

He says "house of Israel" here so if it makes sense to take it as literally Israel then take it as such. Well verse 9 very clearly is linking it to literally Israel, so we cannot change verse 10 to some sort of "spiritual Israel". Verse 10 simply means what it says. Sometime (after those days) the Jews will have the law of God in their hearts and will once again worship God and be His people.

Thank you for your comments Chester. Can you help me out by giving me your views of your understanding of God's elect? I know that the Hebrew letter is talking about the Old covenant being changed for the new covenant.

ForestGreenCook · Mar 27, 2019

Chester said:

Not sure I can follow what all you are trying to say here. You throw a lot of ideas together and melt it all into one long paragraph with unclear connections. But, anyway, I have been an English teacher, so enough of my English lecture! . . .

So I will just make a few comments.

It seems like you are saying that the "house of Israel" is something different from "Israel"? And then that the "house of Israel" is the same as "Jacob" and then that Jacob is "representative of God's elect" - so then I think you are saying that the "house of Israel is God's elect which is the church".

I am very, very leary of pulling together a string of this means this because in this Scripture it means that but in that Scripture that means this and hence in the first Scripture this means that . . . you are probably confused now - and so you should be . . . .

I am quite a simpleton when it comes to Scripture interpretation: just read it and take it face value literally unless the literal makes no sense:

so Heb. 8: 9,10 for example:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

He says "house of Israel" here so if it makes sense to take it as literally Israel then take it as such. Well verse 9 very clearly is linking it to literally Israel, so we cannot change verse 10 to some sort of "spiritual Israel". Verse 10 simply means what it says. Sometime (after those days) the Jews will have the law of God in their hearts and will once again worship God and be His people.

Chester, Why do you think that God changed Jacob's name to Israel and do you think that there are more scriptures that refer to Jacob as Israel, or more that refer to natural Israel?

obedienttogod · Mar 27, 2019

ForestGreenCook said:

He died for everyone He was in personal contact with, His mother Mary, His dad Joseph, His siblings, His Disciples, His friends like Mary-Martha-Lazarus...and each one of these people represented the Covenant under the Mercies of God.

Then He died for the past Hebrews, present Hebrews, future Hebrews. He also died for the Gentiles. He died to Conquer Death - the Grave - and Resurrection. He died for many reasons that you clearly are not apparent and aware of.

JaumeJ · Mar 28, 2019

About mercy, it has always been my understanding that the word, mercy, in the Bible usually is a collective noun for all manifestations of God's mercy. It is like any other collective noun, though may are adopting the habit of treating them as plural ..i.g. the family is here...the newer way people use this collective noun is to say the family are here, dnot grammatically correct, but fo not tell the users...

SIMON55 · Mar 28, 2019

obedienttogod said:

The temple was destroyed then rebuilt under the Persian empire......then destroyed again under the Roman Iron empire......70 AD
But the Book of Daniel basically tells all of Global history to an extent.....
The only problem is its chronologically all mixed up with little indication given when it jumps from the actions of one actor to another.....or transgressor desolator to another and then it repeats the same transgressor desolator twice in different chapters and twice in the same chapter in some.
It would actually be more chronologically. Correct if some of the chapters were taken apart and the same actor put together in its own chapter..... So......
I understand that the interuption of the sacrifice is commonly referred to as the antichrist of tribulation....
But through history there has been the two temple destructions and those transgressor desolators were prototype so to speak or foreshadow antichrists because they both cut off the daily sacrifice Babylonian and Roman.......so....the littlehorn blasphemer beast kingdom of
Daniel 7.....25.....is not the final antichrist......it is the mixing of the Iron ( Rome ) and Clay ( Christianity ) Roman Catholic Church STATE ( 538 Justinian decree division of Roman empire ) and the times times and half times = 1260 yrs....
To 1798 Napoleon arrested Pope ...." head removed deadly wound that is survived"
Pope exiled until death....
Then in 8 it goes back to Persia and Greece warring
BUT..... 8-13,14......tells us when the temple will be CLEANSED ( God/CHRIST ) back on the throne
************2300 yrs**********
2370 ?????.........
Dan 11 is Napoleon being defeated by The Ottoman Caliphate Kings North South Egypt.....
So my question to you is which verses exactly tell us the temple is rebuilt and the sacrifice is again cut off in the middle by the tribulation antichrist ? And Daniel not repeating again the Roman transgression desolation.

Your statement that the chosen people aren't disregarded is correct the Gentiles are the adopted new covenant !!!
The Jew aren't cut off as dead vineage at all just because orthodox Judaism rejects Christ.....means nothing in fact.....it is written when they will be converted.....
Zechariah 12; 9,10

CONVERSION THEY WILL LOOK UPON ( ME ) whom they PIERCED......and WEEP
I WILL POUR OUT THE SPIRIT OF SUPPLICATIONS AND GRACE UPON THE HOUSE OF DAVID AND JERUSALEM

THIS IS GOD......saying to Zech.
They will PIERCE ME before Christ was born.....
IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THE NAME OF THE PROPHECY OR BOOK 12.....
" THE BURDEN OF ISRAEL"
All we have to do is look there......

The Jew were only confounded by God for predetermination to fulfill prophecy and his will and purpose......basicly God planned his own death and ressurection as we all know if we aren't a confounded Jew.
Or some other abomination.

obedienttogod · Mar 28, 2019

SIMON55 said:

The temple was destroyed then rebuilt under the Persian empire......then destroyed again under the Roman Iron empire......70 AD
But the Book of Daniel basically tells all of Global history to an extent.....
The only problem is its chronologically all mixed up with little indication given when it jumps from the actions of one actor to another.....or transgressor desolator to another and then it repeats the same transgressor desolator twice in different chapters and twice in the same chapter in some.
It would actually be more chronologically. Correct if some of the chapters were taken apart and the same actor put together in its own chapter..... So......
I understand that the interuption of the sacrifice is commonly referred to as the antichrist of tribulation....
But through history there has been the two temple destructions and those transgressor desolators were prototype so to speak or foreshadow antichrists because they both cut off the daily sacrifice Babylonian and Roman.......so....the littlehorn blasphemer beast kingdom of
Daniel 7.....25.....is not the final antichrist......it is the mixing of the Iron ( Rome ) and Clay ( Christianity ) Roman Catholic Church STATE ( 538 Justinian decree division of Roman empire ) and the times times and half times = 1260 yrs....
To 1798 Napoleon arrested Pope ...." head removed deadly wound that is survived"
Pope exiled until death....
Then in 8 it goes back to Persia and Greece warring
BUT..... 8-13,14......tells us when the temple will be CLEANSED ( God/CHRIST ) back on the throne
************2300 yrs**********
2370 ?????.........
Dan 11 is Napoleon being defeated by The Ottoman Caliphate Kings North South Egypt.....
So my question to you is which verses exactly tell us the temple is rebuilt and the sacrifice is again cut off in the middle by the tribulation antichrist ? And Daniel not repeating again the Roman transgression desolation.

Your statement that the chosen people aren't disregarded is correct the Gentiles are the adopted new covenant !!!
The Jew aren't cut off as dead vineage at all just because orthodox Judaism rejects Christ.....means nothing in fact.....it is written when they will be converted.....
Zechariah 12; 9,10
View attachment 196563
CONVERSION THEY WILL LOOK UPON ( ME ) whom they PIERCED......and WEEP
I WILL POUR OUT THE SPIRIT OF SUPPLICATIONS AND GRACE UPON THE HOUSE OF DAVID AND JERUSALEM

THIS IS GOD......saying to Zech.
They will PIERCE ME before Christ was born.....
IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THE NAME OF THE PROPHECY OR BOOK 12.....
" THE BURDEN OF ISRAEL"
All we have to do is look there......

The Jew were only confounded by God for predetermination to fulfill prophecy and his will and purpose......basicly God planned his own death and ressurection as we all know if we aren't a confounded Jew.
Or some other abomination.
View attachment 196565

Which is why I specified Daniel Chapter 12. For one, this is where the "Daily Sacrifice" is mentioned at midpoint of the Great Tribulation. Chapter 12:1 brings us to Revelation with Michael booting the Adversary out of Heaven for good. The rest of Chapter 12 can be tied to more of Revelation's and to things Paul wrote about. But even more significantly in my view, the Book of Enoch Chapter 1 also ties into Daniel, Revelation's and what Paul wrote about concerning the End Times.

Nehemiah6 · Mar 28, 2019

ForestGreenCook said:

"The house of Israel" is literally the house or nation or kingdom of Israel under Christ.

The New Covenant was originally given to Israel (the twelve tribes descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob), and the Church (which began with saved Jews) also comes under the New Covenant. Gentiles were grafted into the good olive tree of believing Israel (the believing remnant).

But after the second coming of Christ, God will gather all the Jews from around the world, and bring them to the land of Israel, so that they may ultimately bow their knees to their true Messiah. Study the prophecy of Ezekiel and all the other prophets, along with what is revealed in the New Testament.

But only 1/3rd will be saved and be settled in the land of Israel (which will at that time extend from the Nile to the Euphrates). God will redeem and restore Israel by His grace, but those who enter the Millennial Kingdom will all need to repent and be converted. They will weep, and wail, and mourn and then accept their King-Messiah Jesus of Nazareth. They will then be regenerated.

The house of Israel must not be confused with the Church. Therefore we have a microcosm of the house of Israel before the throne of God in Revelation 7 (the 144,000 redeemed Israelites) alongside the Church in Heaven. Which means that God has an eternal plan and purposes for BOTH Israel and the Church (whose eternal home is the New Jerusalem).

ForestGreenCook · Mar 28, 2019

Nehemiah6 said:

"The house of Israel" is literally the house or nation or kingdom of Israel under Christ.

The New Covenant was originally given to Israel (the twelve tribes descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob), and the Church (which began with saved Jews) also comes under the New Covenant. Gentiles were grafted into the good olive tree of believing Israel (the believing remnant).

But after the second coming of Christ, God will gather all the Jews from around the world, and bring them to the land of Israel, so that they may ultimately bow their knees to their true Messiah. Study the prophecy of Ezekiel and all the other prophets, along with what is revealed in the New Testament.

But only 1/3rd will be saved and be settled in the land of Israel (which will at that time extend from the Nile to the Euphrates). God will redeem and restore Israel by His grace, but those who enter the Millennial Kingdom will all need to repent and be converted. They will weep, and wail, and mourn and then accept their King-Messiah Jesus of Nazareth. They will then be regenerated.

The house of Israel must not be confused with the Church. Therefore we have a microcosm of the house of Israel before the throne of God in Revelation 7 (the 144,000 redeemed Israelites) alongside the Church in Heaven. Which means that God has an eternal plan and purposes for BOTH Israel and the Church (whose eternal home is the New Jerusalem).

Can you explain to me why God changed Jacob's name to be called Israel? Why did God choose Jacob over Esau, was it not to show that God's election might stand? Is Jacob a representative of God's elect people?

ForestGreenCook · Mar 28, 2019

Nehemiah6 said:

"The house of Israel" is literally the house or nation or kingdom of Israel under Christ.

The New Covenant was originally given to Israel (the twelve tribes descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob), and the Church (which began with saved Jews) also comes under the New Covenant. Gentiles were grafted into the good olive tree of believing Israel (the believing remnant).

But after the second coming of Christ, God will gather all the Jews from around the world, and bring them to the land of Israel, so that they may ultimately bow their knees to their true Messiah. Study the prophecy of Ezekiel and all the other prophets, along with what is revealed in the New Testament.

But only 1/3rd will be saved and be settled in the land of Israel (which will at that time extend from the Nile to the Euphrates). God will redeem and restore Israel by His grace, but those who enter the Millennial Kingdom will all need to repent and be converted. They will weep, and wail, and mourn and then accept their King-Messiah Jesus of Nazareth. They will then be regenerated.

The house of Israel must not be confused with the Church. Therefore we have a microcosm of the house of Israel before the throne of God in Revelation 7 (the 144,000 redeemed Israelites) alongside the Church in Heaven. Which means that God has an eternal plan and purposes for BOTH Israel and the Church (whose eternal home is the New Jerusalem).

Do you believe that God has an elect people, if so, who are they and what scriptures uphold that fact?

FlyingDove · Mar 28, 2019

A bit of history

Matt 1:2 (A) Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob

Jacob's name is changed to Israel: Gen 32:28-30 & 35:10

Jacob/Israel has 12 sons: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph & Benjamin. The 12 sons are then referred to as the 12 Tribes.

Each son/tribe (except Levi) is given a portion of land within Israels God given land. Levi or the Levites, are chosen to be Priests Of God. They get no land, animals, fruit trees etc. Each of the other tribe's are commanded to give 1 tenth of its wealth increases to support the Priesthood/Levites.

The house of Jacob/Nation of Israel, stays united with Jerusalem as its capital, thru King Solomon's reign. After Solomon dies, his son Rehoboam attempts to succeed him. 10 of the 12 tribes/sons revolt (1 Kings 12). Only 2 tribes Judah & Benjamin remained loyal to Rehoboam. Although, still called Israel, the house of Israel, or the Northern Kingdom. Their capital becomes Samaria. Judah & Benjamin, the 2 tribes/sons that stayed loyal to Rehoboam. Are now referred to as Judah, the house of Judah or the Southern Kingdom. Find additional history on the 2 kingdoms throughout the books of Kings 1 & 2

JaumeJ · Mar 28, 2019

If anyone is interested in knowing more on the condition of Israel, it would serve well to read Ephesians.

SIMON55 · Mar 28, 2019

ForestGreenCook said:

The elect of God are many
They are they who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus Christ
The prophets
The apostles
The disciples
They who do not defile with women
They who wash their robes in the great tribulation
They who refuse the mark
They who love him and keep his word
They who overcome
They who endure to the end
They who are sealed by the Holy Spirit
They who sanctify their faith in him
The martyred
The sheep who know his voice and heed his call
They that hear the knock at the door and sup with him
They that have his commandments written on their hearts and sealed in their foreheads as a signet
They that are called up before the antichrist for testimony of the Holy Spirit through them
His remnants he reserves in the worst of places.
Israel
Adopted Israel
Those that the angels seal
😀If you love him and keep his word you are his elect

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