Did he? During His ministry years, the Bible and Jesus tell us this:
If He actually entered into rabbinical studies with one of Hillel's disciples (for instance) .. perhaps even with Hillel's grandson, Gamaliel .. then why would the teachers have asked/wondered what they did about Him (in v15)? .. and why would Jesus have said what He did (in v16)?
No doubt in choosing to temporarily set aside the full use of some of His Divine attributes (such as omniscience) .. Philippians 2:5-8, He, as a now human Child (as you just pointed out), needed to grow physically & mentally & spiritually ~but~ .. did He do so under the tutelage and "wisdom" of men, or under the tutelage His Father and the HS ... just like He told us that He did?
So, it's your belief that Jesus was listening to what they had to say and asking them questions for 'His' benefit, rather than for theirs (that He needed them to teach Him about God, His word and His ways)? It's possible I suppose (but how can we know
). Then again:
Does it? Do you also believe that the, "spotless Lamb of God", dishonored His parents .. even once? If He did, could He still rightly be understood to be innocent? Rather, I find this exchange to be both telling and amazing (as Jesus Himself seemed amazed at His parents' reaction and lack of understanding, as well).
A Jewish "wisdom" teacher??
I am sure that He was familiar with the non-Biblical wisdom literature of the day (that was written between the end of the OT and the beginning of the NT), but neither He nor the Apostles quoted any of it (nor did they say things like, "it is written" about any of it). Fortunately, the "wisdom" that He brought us in the Bible was from a much higher Source than that which is contained in the Apocrypha.
The Jews taught/believed that they had two inspired sources from God/through Moses that were binding upon their hearts/consciences to draw upon, the "written" Torah, and the "oral" Torah (this belief is remarkably similar to that of the Roman Catholic Church and what they teach about their "Tradition", save the fact that it came through Moses).
It should also be noted concerning the Jewish (oral) "Tradition" that Jesus had things like this to say about it:
Sirach seems to have a number of wise sayings in it, and some of what it says may have even be "inspired" (so to speak) by the words of the Bible, but I believe that Sirach remains, nevertheless, nothing more than the words and wisdom of men, ~not~ the breathed/inspired words of God Himself. Like other wisdom literature of the day, some of the statements made in Sirach line up with the Scriptures (or at least do not directly contradict what the Bible has to say), but it does contain heretical statements as well, statements that contradict, and therefore invalidate, the word of God (it should also be quickly noted that Sirach was never part of Jewish oral or written Tradition).
~Deut
p.s. - again, one of the problems with all of the Apocryphal books/literature is that while some of the teaching found there may not contradict/invalidate what the Bible says and may, in fact, repeat what the OT says word for word, or come close to doing so anyway (cf honoring one's parents can result in a prolonged life, for instance), it also teaches .. sometimes within the very same passage .. heresy (that obviously does contradict what the Bible says).
Where, for instance, does that Bible, OT or New, even insinuate that honoring one's parents is a way that our sins can be atoned for? (or in a lesser way, that a blessing will come from our parents as a kind of payment for doing what the Bible commands us to do?)
John 7
14 When it was now the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and began to teach.
15 The Jews then were astonished, saying, “How has this man become learned, having never been educated?”
16 So Jesus answered them and said, “My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me.
If He actually entered into rabbinical studies with one of Hillel's disciples (for instance) .. perhaps even with Hillel's grandson, Gamaliel .. then why would the teachers have asked/wondered what they did about Him (in v15)? .. and why would Jesus have said what He did (in v16)?
No doubt in choosing to temporarily set aside the full use of some of His Divine attributes (such as omniscience) .. Philippians 2:5-8, He, as a now human Child (as you just pointed out), needed to grow physically & mentally & spiritually ~but~ .. did He do so under the tutelage and "wisdom" of men, or under the tutelage His Father and the HS ... just like He told us that He did?
So, it's your belief that Jesus was listening to what they had to say and asking them questions for 'His' benefit, rather than for theirs (that He needed them to teach Him about God, His word and His ways)? It's possible I suppose (but how can we know
). Then again:Luke 2
47 All who heard Him were amazed at His understanding and His answers.
Does it? Do you also believe that the, "spotless Lamb of God", dishonored His parents .. even once? If He did, could He still rightly be understood to be innocent? Rather, I find this exchange to be both telling and amazing (as Jesus Himself seemed amazed at His parents' reaction and lack of understanding, as well).
Luke 2
49 He said to them, “Why is it that you were looking for Me? Did you not know that I had to be in My Father’s house?”
50 But they did not understand the statement which He had made to them.
A Jewish "wisdom" teacher??
I am sure that He was familiar with the non-Biblical wisdom literature of the day (that was written between the end of the OT and the beginning of the NT), but neither He nor the Apostles quoted any of it (nor did they say things like, "it is written" about any of it). Fortunately, the "wisdom" that He brought us in the Bible was from a much higher Source
than that which is contained in the Apocrypha.The Jews taught/believed that they had two inspired sources from God/through Moses that were binding upon their hearts/consciences to draw upon, the "written" Torah, and the "oral" Torah (this belief is remarkably similar to that of the Roman Catholic Church and what they teach about their "Tradition", save the fact that it came through Moses).
It should also be noted concerning the Jewish (oral) "Tradition" that Jesus had things like this to say about it:
Matthew 7
6 He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS,
BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME.
7 ‘BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME,
TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.’
8 “Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition.
10 “For Moses said, ‘HONOR YOUR FATHER AND YOUR MOTHER’; and, ‘HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER, IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH’;
11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’
12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother;
13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”
Sirach seems to have a number of wise sayings in it, and some of what it says may have even be "inspired" (so to speak) by the words of the Bible, but I believe that Sirach remains, nevertheless, nothing more than the words and wisdom of men, ~not~ the breathed/inspired words of God Himself. Like other wisdom literature of the day, some of the statements made in Sirach line up with the Scriptures (or at least do not directly contradict what the Bible has to say), but it does contain heretical statements as well, statements that contradict, and therefore invalidate, the word of God (it should also be quickly noted that Sirach was never part of Jewish oral or written Tradition).
~Deut
p.s. - again, one of the problems with all of the Apocryphal books/literature is that while some of the teaching found there may not contradict/invalidate what the Bible says and may, in fact, repeat what the OT says word for word, or come close to doing so anyway (cf honoring one's parents can result in a prolonged life, for instance), it also teaches .. sometimes within the very same passage .. heresy (that obviously does contradict what the Bible says).
Where, for instance, does that Bible, OT or New, even insinuate that honoring one's parents is a way that our sins can be atoned for? (or in a lesser way, that a blessing will come from our parents as a kind of payment for doing what the Bible commands us to do?)
Sirach 3
1 Hear me your father, O children, and do thereafter, that ye may be safe.
2 For the Lord hath given the father honour over the children, and hath confirmed the authority of the mother over the sons.
3 Whoso honoureth his father maketh an atonement for his sins.
4 And he that honoureth his mother is as one that layeth up treasure.
5 Whoso honoureth his father shall have joy of his own children; and when he maketh his prayer, he shall be heard.
6 He that honoureth his father shall have a long life; and he that is obedient unto the Lord shall be a comfort to his mother.
7 He that feareth the Lord will honour his father, and will do service unto his parents, as to his masters.
8 Honour thy father and mother both in word and deed, that a blessing may come upon thee from them.
9 For the blessing of the father establisheth the houses of children; but the curse of the mother rooteth out foundations.
.
But......ya know.....he could have read their stuff in his spare time......like a comic book......lol...to note the errors in there ways.....😀😀😀😀😀
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