So would you guys say that falling away as in the context of Hebrews 6 would not apply to someone who "believed" and then did not believe for a bit (maybe part of a day or maybe less than a week) and then came to faith again, if that makes sense?
What is falling away as mentioned in Hebrews 6?
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Your statement was that we are not to trust the law that God created, and then it is me who needs to study and accept God's word. You are not making any kind of sense.
There is much debate on whether a believer can lose their salvation. I believe that this passage indicates that there is a possibility, but Jesus is clear that He will never leave us nor forsake us. I know that an occasional doubt will not separate us from our Lord. Even John Baptist had these moments. I personally believe that only a willful act of rebellion (us forsaking our Lord) constitutes what is spoken of in Hebrews 6.
Not applicable. Christians can (and do) have their ups and downs.
Then you have to agree that Hebrews 6 is a hypothetical situation and cannot occur. Also, the last days is not to be taken literally as it is in other portions of Scripture pointing to the tribulation and return of Christ.
They were partakers of the Holy Ghost and the word of God. The briers and thorns in verse 8 point to the devil. Verse 15 points to enduring with patients till the end and obtaining the promise. That’s trib doctrine at it’s core. Staying away from falling away, not taking the mark, and enduring to the end. See Matthew 24-25 also.
And so...... the tread takes it natural path to- can one be “unsaved” after being “saved.”
How long will people doubt the power of God?
With man, it is impossible ( to become righteous) but with God, all things are possible.
No one can “save themselves”
No one can “unsave” themselves”
It is an act, a gift from God by God
Whenever one cannot reconcile an apparent contradiction in Scripture, they rely on someone to “help” them in their understanding, instead of Scripture.
It is sad that so many believe that God makes mistakes in choosing one for eternal life, and then goes and “unseals” that person — because they slipped and sinned. So sad, that one depends on their human efforts, instead of relying on God.
How long will people doubt the power of God?
With man, it is impossible ( to become righteous) but with God, all things are possible.
No one can “save themselves”
No one can “unsave” themselves”
It is an act, a gift from God by God
Whenever one cannot reconcile an apparent contradiction in Scripture, they rely on someone to “help” them in their understanding, instead of Scripture.
It is sad that so many believe that God makes mistakes in choosing one for eternal life, and then goes and “unseals” that person — because they slipped and sinned. So sad, that one depends on their human efforts, instead of relying on God.
This is why it's important to recognize the audience...Jews in the tribulation, the last days before Christ's return. One must endure to the end without taking the mark of the beast. If one trusts in God and at some point takes the mark of the beast, they are condemned to hell. Patience and endurance is key during this time.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
No, You can not even get this right. You have done this since you have been here, do you ever listen to a thing anyone says?
My statment was that the LAW was the context of Hebrews. Paul was warning them about returning to the law (the wchoolmaster) and thinking that is WHY THEY ARE MADE RIGHT WITH GOD)
You do need to study, Not only the word. But what people say
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Hebrews 6 is about people who used to believe in one thing, then came to follow christianity, then returned to what they used to follow.
What your talking about would be more like a prodigal son, then apostacy.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I disagree
I think this passage is tryign to share with us there is not a possibility, and if there was. It would be permanent.
The law stated one could be clean/inclean/clean/unclean
This passage says if you can become unclean again, it would be permament (as said in another part of this book, there is no more sacrifice, Jesus died once.
"And... as it is written: 'Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor have entered into the heart of man the
things which God has prepared for those who love Him.' But God has revealed them to us through His
Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a
man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit
of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might
know the things that have been freely given to us by God. These things we also speak, not in words which
man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the
natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he
know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself
is rightly judged by no one" (1 Cor. 2:9–15).
'Praise God'
things which God has prepared for those who love Him.' But God has revealed them to us through His
Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a
man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit
of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might
know the things that have been freely given to us by God. These things we also speak, not in words which
man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the
natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he
know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself
is rightly judged by no one" (1 Cor. 2:9–15).
'Praise God'
Attachments
The tribulation is not the context.
Chapter 6 begins with “Therefore,” which means the author is building a doctrine from the previous chapter, 5. Begin there and you will see he is speaking of “immature” beliverers (jews). He goes on to chastise them for their lack of understanding but ends with the surety of God pictured as being an anchor for our soul, one who keeps His promises.
So in actuality it is a warning that each of us need to “live” out our faith, that is the same message James extolls. Nothing whatsoever is alluding to the tribulation. It goes on to speak that God keeps His promises, and it speaks to His faithfulness, not ours!
16For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife. 17Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath: 18That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us: 19Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil(Jesus); 20Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Go back even father to chapter 1.
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
The context is the last days. The last days is a reference before the return of Christ.
Chapter six eludes to the tribulation. If it's church doctrine, we're all in trouble.
O
obedienttogod
Guest
What is most interesting, is how the Book of Hebrews is written out.
It's clearly an OUTLINE of events that happened in the lineage protected by God.
And then it also includes teachings of the New Covenant.
But the fact that it's Papyrus is dated 3rd Century, poses what many historians believe. And that is, Hebrews was written by someone who was very eloquent (even more so than Paul, than Luke)(when compared to ALL of Paul and Luke's work, NOTHING of theirs comes close to how Hebrews is PROPERLY WRITTEN in the context of an OUTLINE).
Theory (which are facts discovered to conclude to a TRUTH), and from early church writers and historians, we know that Hebrews was introduced about 50 years before the Council met and chose our 66 Books. Theory goes, this new book of Hebrews was being used by church leaders in services ad masses. And the Council felt it truly to be inspired by God and added it with properly leaving out the actual AUTHOR of Hebrews, or the OUTLINE!!
My own Opinion,
Hebrews is indeed written like a historical timeline of God Inspired People who overcame and became Champions, the TRUTH about Yeshua throughout Old/New Testaments, some teachings of the Disciples can be found in Hebrews, also can be said of Paul and Luke. It really is a COMPLETE COMPILATION of Both Covenants and it's related meaning.
It sincerely without my doubt, could have been the writings of a God fearing writer, who just happened to look at the ENTIRE WORK of God from Beginning to End, and sat down, being Inspired by the Holy Spirit, and simply Broke Down the Entire Bible, cover to cover, highlighting actually what God wanted us to see in every Book we read through God's Champion (Abraham + the others). We see the humanity, the suffering, the determination, the ability through God to overcome. But in Hebrews, we see what it meant on a spiritual level. This is why I think as I do towards Hebrews.
It's clearly an OUTLINE of events that happened in the lineage protected by God.
And then it also includes teachings of the New Covenant.
But the fact that it's Papyrus is dated 3rd Century, poses what many historians believe. And that is, Hebrews was written by someone who was very eloquent (even more so than Paul, than Luke)(when compared to ALL of Paul and Luke's work, NOTHING of theirs comes close to how Hebrews is PROPERLY WRITTEN in the context of an OUTLINE).
Theory (which are facts discovered to conclude to a TRUTH), and from early church writers and historians, we know that Hebrews was introduced about 50 years before the Council met and chose our 66 Books. Theory goes, this new book of Hebrews was being used by church leaders in services ad masses. And the Council felt it truly to be inspired by God and added it with properly leaving out the actual AUTHOR of Hebrews, or the OUTLINE!!
My own Opinion,
Hebrews is indeed written like a historical timeline of God Inspired People who overcame and became Champions, the TRUTH about Yeshua throughout Old/New Testaments, some teachings of the Disciples can be found in Hebrews, also can be said of Paul and Luke. It really is a COMPLETE COMPILATION of Both Covenants and it's related meaning.
It sincerely without my doubt, could have been the writings of a God fearing writer, who just happened to look at the ENTIRE WORK of God from Beginning to End, and sat down, being Inspired by the Holy Spirit, and simply Broke Down the Entire Bible, cover to cover, highlighting actually what God wanted us to see in every Book we read through God's Champion (Abraham + the others). We see the humanity, the suffering, the determination, the ability through God to overcome. But in Hebrews, we see what it meant on a spiritual level. This is why I think as I do towards Hebrews.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
No. It says THESE LAST DAYS, or in literaly, In these days which we are NOW living.
And no we are not in trouble. Because it does not say we can fall out of salvation. It says if we could fall away, we could never be renewed.
The verses immediately following these verse PROVE THAT
7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.
Same wording prety much as 1 cor 3
Blessing for being usefull to the world (gold silver precious stone)
Burned for not being usefull or earnign reward (Wood hay and straw)
NEAR to being cursed, saved as through fire.
You can not use this passage to say salvation can be lost.
Not sure where you got your info. on Hebrews.
Clement, who died sometime around A.D. 99, quoted Hebrews about 95 A.D. and treated Hebrews as equal to other New Testament books. And Justin Martyr, who lived from A.D. 100 to 165, did the same. But Hebrews was omitted from the Marcionite Canon, written around A.D. 144,
O
obedienttogod
Guest
If these are true then your info is tradition:
2. Marcion's Canon Marcion came to Rome shortly before 140. Hebrews was not found in his canonical list.
3. Muratorian Canon (ca. AD 200) This is a fragmentary list of NT books known at Rome around the year 200, which commended those books which were received by the Church in Rome and which were approved to be read out in public. Hebrews is not mentioned (Ironic, Hebrews is NOT LISTED in 200, but Clement, a ROME BISHOP supposedly quotes Hebrews 100 years before hahahahaha doubtful).
Papyrus manuscript fragment of the Letter to the Hebrews ...
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/473792823288212795
Papyrus manuscript fragment of the Letter to the Hebrews from an early New Testament in Greek. The surviving text of Hebrews are verses 1:7-12. Found in Egypt, dates from around 250 AD and is currently at the Sackler Library at Oxford England.
The reasons for numbers 2 & 3 not having Hebrews listed in their Canon's, is because the first Edition of Hebrews did not take place until around 280 A.D.