A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES

[eternally-gratefull]

actually believing in Christ assures our salvation

I agree with stones...you have a rather convoluted interpretation with regards to the Holy Spirit

the NT makes it plain that we are SEALED with the Spirit of God when we believe

what is too bad, is how you you change what is said and post what you think and ignore the many times people tell you that they did not say what YOU said they say

you did this with stones through the last few pages

you are right the this is not a light subject which is why you should stop trying to teach on it since you do not understand it

I should have left it, but out of curiosity I opened it.

Your view of the BAPTISM of th HS is convoluted.

Your right, the NT makes it clear, we are sealed wiht the HS when we believe, That is ONE job of the HS at the moment we are saved.

The other job is to do what John the baptist foretold (he will baptise you with the HS) andf what jesus fortold (you will be baptised with the baptism I am baptized with) that Paul said occured (you wer baptized into his death and burial, And you were baptized into Christ) and finally, as paul said, the spiritual baptism/circumcision done by the hand of the one who rose him from the dead (the HS)

Then you have the ANNOINTING of the spirit (the spirit being poured out or comming in you)

All of these things ar essential. If they have not been done, your not saved

Baptism represents washing
Seal or pledge represents our security
Anointing represents the HS coming in us, which is where we get the gifting, the correction, the chastening, the praying on our behalf. And the leading and guidance.

Your the one who does not understand it. You have been led astray as to what really happens when a person is saved, and all the things the HS does at that moment (I just named three, there are more)

The baptism of the spirit is NOT what you think it is.. That is one of the LARGEST reasons that people can not fall behind pentecostle beliefs, The tongues issue at least to me is the least of the worries.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I can red X too. Wow. I feel so powerfull

 

[UnderGrace]

So true EG,

I can red X too. Wow. I feel so powerfull

View attachment 196520

 

[garee]

Romans 6 says we were baptised into Christ and his death, It has nothign to do with water baptism, this is spirit baptis,. Your pastor can not baptise you into christ, this is a false teaching because of a misinterpretation of the word.

Amen, water baptism has it foundation in the old testament as a cerimonial law or shadow . It was necessary but as a shadow it could not make the one who desired to become a member of the priesthood of believers perfect . Arron two sons added their own tradition and were removed .

Someone somewhere along the line had a affect with a oral traditions and made it a sign that they could seek after to confirm something not seen .(false pride) We walk by faith not after a signs and wonders gospel.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Amen, water baptism has it foundation in the old testament as a cerimonial law or shadow . It was necessary but as a shadow it could not make the one who desired to become a member of the priesthood of believers perfect . Arron two sons added their own tradition and were removed .

Someone somewhere along the line had a affect with a oral traditions and made it a sign that they could seek after to confirm something not seen .(false pride) We walk by faith not after a signs and wonders gospel.

I can not comprehend how people can look at rom 6, 1 cor 12, Gal 3 and col 2 is some human who is immersing (baptise) you in water and not God immersing you into Christs death, His burial, his body, christ himself and the spiritual washing (circumcision) done by the hand of God himself.

I think this issue is the word was never translated, it was transliterated.

 

[UnderGrace]

Clear that this has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit, thats demonic!!!

Natural progression from what started in 1901

 

[7seasrekeyed]

EG...you behave like a bully

you are confused and you are confusing

I don't care what you do

but you should not be teaching anyone

you have a reputation here for doing exactly what I said you do...and I am far from the only one

you are both passive aggressive and at times overtly aggressive

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG...you behave like a bully

you are confused and you are confusing

I don't care what you do

but you should not be teaching anyone

you have a reputation here for doing exactly what I said you do...and I am far from the only one

you are both passive aggressive and at times overtly aggressive

I just state what I believe Your the one who came after me saying I should not be teaching anyone because I am wrong about the baptism of the Holy Spirit and have no clue. But now it is my fault? And I am the agressive one?

You should pratice what you preach.


The only people I am passive aggressive with are certain people who do certain things. And I will push them, especially if what they are doing is sin (although I will take the advice of oncefallen in the future) I disagree with many people on different things, But you never see us fighting or attacking each other, and when we are done, we agree to disagree and move on. Even with stonesofire, She tells me how it is, how she believes, (And I respect her for that) and I do the same with her, Yet I do not see us attacking each other and calling each other names, I have a respect for her and a love for her. And I know she does me also.

But for some reason, Many who see others disagree with them can’t handle it..

Ps. Can you show me where I was wrong in anything I said about the being baptised by the spirit?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

first off, I could not care less about your excuses. they are not explanations, they are simply excuses for your childish and boorish behavior

second, you state we are saved by the baptism of the Holy Spirit

Thats too bad. The baptism of the spirit is what makes us saved, And hapens to ALL of Gds children (if it does not happen your not saved) it is not just a light subject.

now say you did not mean it that way

that's how you operate. I do not think you understand the order of how things happen

I do not believe a person must speak in tongues to be saved, but I also think rejecting and calling people who do speak in tongues devilsh or filled with the devil. is the devil's work and there are many here who are employed by him

NOTE: I am not calling you a devil; be clear on that

I also think there is a least one person who has been on this thread that IS filled with the Holy Spirit in the true sense of the word even though they reject tongues.

you can stamp your foot, hold your breath till you turn blue and excuse your poor behavior here

you want recognition...now say you don't...and you have most definitely stood out in this thread

I have not once attempted to try and get you to see the way you twist things and outright lie about what you say and do, but I have objected to it and so have others

so do what you want. some folks just gonna go through life with a red light flashing and they will just barrel through and say it is everyone else

I've seen it before

 

[7seasrekeyed]

You should pratice what you preach.

oh I do

but you only listen to yourself and you are well practiced

now, I am going to leave you to it. years of reading your rants here indicates you are who you are

 

[eternally-gratefull]

first off, I could not care less about your excuses. they are not explanations, they are simply excuses for your childish and boorish behavior

second, you state we are saved by the baptism of the Holy Spirit



now say you did not mean it that way

Talk about ironic

You keep attacking me as if I have the problem. Then you like so many can not understand a word I say.

I never said I did not mean it that way.

It is THROUGH the baptism of the spirit WE ARE WASHED as we are IMMERSED, or UNITED with the death and burial of Christ, placed into (immersed) his body, and himself, and this spiritual immersion/cleansing is what washes us and makes us clean (titus 3. Not by works, but by his mery THROUGH the WASHING and REGENERATION of the HS)

If this has not been accomplish YOUR NOT SAVED, PERIOD!

that's how you operate. I do not think you understand the order of how things happen

No my friend, it is you who do not understand..

I

do not believe a person must speak in tongues to be saved, but I also think rejecting and calling people who do speak in tongues devilsh or filled with the devil. is the devil's work and there are many here who are employed by him

NOTE: I am not calling you a devil; be clear on that

I also think there is a least one person who has been on this thread that IS filled with the Holy Spirit in the true sense of the word even though they reject tongues.

you can stamp your foot, hold your breath till you turn blue and excuse your poor behavior here

you want recognition...now say you don't...and you have most definitely stood out in this thread

I have not once attempted to try and get you to see the way you twist things and outright lie about what you say and do, but I have objected to it and so have others

so do what you want. some folks just gonna go through life with a red light flashing and they will just barrel through and say it is everyone else

I've seen it before

Practice what you preach maam,

You attacked me first on this topic saying I am unlearned or should not teach. I did not start this you did. And even now, after we have gone back and forth a few times, You still do not understand what I am saying, proven by the fact you stated I did not mean something, which was not true.

Stomping? I want attention, hold my breath? (Do you have any more belittling statments to use against me?) I am not stomping,, or doing any of those things, I am just sharing what I believe and what I see (evidently you do not like that, and thats to bad, but it also is not my fault)

You made a statement, and all I want you to do is show me were I am wrong, and I can only since you can not do this, you have to belittle and erate me (by your comments of stomping and holding my breath) whihc is sadly somethign that seems to be not only practiced in here but evidently encouraged. And how dare people call anyone out for doing that kind of stuff.

If you can show me where I am wrong, and prove your statement that I should not teach because I am unlearned on this topic) then feel free, At the very least, Give your believe or view of what it means (you have not even done this yet) but if your just continue to try to discredit me, and mock me and try to attack my character, then do not bother. Because all your doing is hurting your own character

I am not trying to force people to believe what this baptism is, If they agree, fine, if they do not fine, I just finished my discussion with stones saying and explaining why I am worried about this belief (because even if her and I are finished with this discussion. (Which I have shared with her I will not argue this with her anymore) because Whenever someone tries to use this as the power behind speaking of tongues, I will share my view on why I believe they are wrong, And I wanted her to know I was just sharing my belief, not attacking her personally.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

oh I do

but you only listen to yourself and you are well practiced

now, I am going to leave you to it. years of reading your rants here indicates you are who you are

Yeah, but your the one attacking, your the one belittling, Your the one trying to do character assasination
You have YET to prove I am wrong about the baptism, or even share what you think it means.

That alone proves who has the issue here.

 

[wolfwint]

Natural progression from what started in 1901

Sad, but correct

 

[RickyZ]

Take your pic. MSNBC, CBS, ABC, its all about ratings now. Not about truth.

It's more than ratings. They are pushing an agenda, just like Fox and all it's iterations. Trouble is, you dismiss the left agenda for the farce it is, BUT BUY INTO THE RIGHT'S AGENDA AS IF IT WERE THE GOD'S-HONEST TRUTH. Which it ain't. SO, if you are willing to buy into falsehoods on one side at the expense of the truth, how much are we supposed to buy into your agenda concerning tongues?

 

[RickyZ]

The entire OP is a falsehood -

"After 8 years of study I declare my position to be God's truth and therefore will accept NO discussion or debate about it".

You know, my 25 years of study on the subject says the whole cessationist agenda is false. Since I have the OP by 17 additional years, I MUST be right.

 

[stonesoffire]

You should of listened to my objection on the works thread VCO.

You've got what you intended.

 

[RickyZ]

It's more than ratings. They are pushing an agenda, just like Fox and all it's iterations. Trouble is, you dismiss the left agenda for the farce it is, BUT BUY INTO THE RIGHT'S AGENDA AS IF IT WERE THE GOD'S-HONEST TRUTH. Which it ain't. SO, if you are willing to buy into falsehoods on one side at the expense of the truth, how much are we supposed to buy into your agenda concerning tongues?

Sorry may have conflated your position with others. I should have said "how much are we supposed to buy into the OP's agenda concerning tongues"?

 

[wolfwint]

How many high iq p

The entire OP is a falsehood -

"After 8 years of study I declare my position to be God's truth and therefore will accept NO discussion or debate about it".

You know, my 25 years of study on the subject says the whole cessationist agenda is false. Since I have the OP by 17 additional years, I MUST be right.

How many high iq people study the bible for to come the conclusion that God does not exist. The miracles are fairy tales, Jesus is risen only spirituell.
And if you believe to an virgin birth you belong to the backforst people.

So study may not always leads to the right conclusion.

 

[stonesoffire]

How many high iq p

How many high iq people study the bible for to come the conclusion that God does not exist. The miracles are fairy tales, Jesus is risen only spirituell.
And if you believe to an virgin birth you belong to the backforst people.

So study may not always leads to the right conclusion.

Neither does unbelief in what is plainly read.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It's more than ratings. They are pushing an agenda, just like Fox and all it's iterations. Trouble is, you dismiss the left agenda for the farce it is, BUT BUY INTO THE RIGHT'S AGENDA AS IF IT WERE THE GOD'S-HONEST TRUTH. Which it ain't. SO, if you are willing to buy into falsehoods on one side at the expense of the truth, how much are we supposed to buy into your agenda concerning tongues?

You act as if you know me? What makes you think I buy into the stuff Fox tells us? I actually do not listen to world news now I can;t believe a word I said.

I hate socialsim, I have seen the damage it will cause, and I am scared for my country now. But I am also just as mad with many on the right.. who I think have left their values and goals all for a few votes.

But ths has not a thing to do about tongues, and I have no agenda. But I should have known something was up