Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

I don't lie.

Sure you do..... I also said i have no way of knowing, and cannot say for sure...see your nothing but an embellishing snake pal that lies regularly and embellishes on every turn

 

[calibob]

So he criticizes me for questioning a translation that is fear in some bibles and respect in others but makes fun of people that believe in angels? Dude, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is unforgivable. Stay away from me!

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

It is not "obeying the Lord" when any [who] concerning the truth have deviated by asserting [falsehoods], overthrowing the faith of some. This is a good caution to all of us posting here daily.

"5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. 6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar." - Proverbs 30:5-6

____________

FOR FUN (in my daily "word studies" venture), I happened to notice I had (just before this present post):

1375 total posts

G1375 -

HELPS Word-studies

Cognate: 1375 diōgmós (from 1377 /diṓkō, "follow, pursue") – properly, pursuit (chase); persecution – literally, "the hunt to bring someone down like an animal," trying to suppress (punish) their convictions. See 1377 (diōkō).
1375 /diōgmós ("religious persecution") literally refers to those seeking to punish God's messengers with a vengeance – like a hunter trying to conquer (obliterate) someone as their "catch."
[1375 (diōgmós) is used in ancient and biblical Greek for persecution (hostility) shown by confused, spiritual "leaders." For example, it applies to the Roman Emperor, Decius (ad 250-251). He killed thousands of Christians who refused to offer sacrifices in his name.]


H1375 -

[5x in Genesis, all in chpt 44 (Joseph placing his "silver cup" in the sack of "Benjamin" --know what this means?)]
- "cup"

Genesis 44:2

HEB: וְאֶת־ גְּבִיעִ֞י גְּבִ֣יעַ הַכֶּ֗סֶף
NAS: Put my cup, the silver cup,
KJV: And put my cup, the silver cup,
INT: my cup cup the silver

Genesis 44:2

HEB: וְאֶת־ גְּבִיעִ֞י גְּבִ֣יעַ הַכֶּ֗סֶף תָּשִׂים֙
NAS: the silver cup, in the mouth
KJV: the silver cup, in the sack's
INT: my cup cup the silver Put

Genesis 44:12

HEB: כִּלָּ֑ה וַיִּמָּצֵא֙ הַגָּבִ֔יעַ בְּאַמְתַּ֖חַת בִּנְיָמִֽן׃
NAS: with the youngest, and the cup was found
KJV: at the youngest: and the cup was found
INT: and ending was found and the cup sack Benjamin's

Genesis 44:16

HEB: אֲשֶׁר־ נִמְצָ֥א הַגָּבִ֖יעַ בְּיָדֽוֹ׃
NAS: possession the cup has been found.
KJV: with whom the cup is found.
INT: whose has been found the cup possession

Genesis 44:17

HEB: אֲשֶׁר֩ נִמְצָ֨א הַגָּבִ֜יעַ בְּיָד֗וֹ ה֚וּא
NAS: possession the cup has been found,
KJV: in whose hand the cup is found,
INT: whose has been found the cup possession he

[source: Bible Hub]


Wow, ya learn something new every day.

 

[calibob]

I don't lie.

https://biblehub.com/kjv/psalms/116-11.htm
Bible > Psalms > Chapter 116 > Verse 11 Psalm 116:11 Parallel Verses. King James Version I said in my haste, All men are liars. Darby Bible Translation I said in my haste, All men are liars. World English Bible I said in my haste, "All men are liars." Young's Literal Translation I said in my haste, 'Every man is a liar.' Psalm 116:11 Parallel.

 

[50C1AL0N3]

Depart from me ye who work iniquity, I Never knew you.

 

[dcontroversal]

So he criticizes me for questioning a translation that is fear in some bibles and respect in others but makes fun of people that believe in angels? Dude, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is unforgivable. Stay away from me!

Amen.....he has consistently proven ignorance in almost every post he makes......!!

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Can such interactions as demonstrated here be turned to good?

Obedience could be looked at as slavery and not freedom.
Christians cannot do fun things.

But the limitations of what is acceptable do not define the contents.
One drives a car, yet you stick to the speed limits. The speed limits
define safety, yet do not stop the experience.

So our relationships with one another can be full of respect, love, care,
patience, encouragement, value, enjoyment, fun, empathy without
point scoring, hurtful remarks, put downs, being rude, bearing false
witness etc.

So obedience is not an evil thing, a burden impossible to carry. Rather
it forces one to ask how do you respect others? How do you become aware
of struggles and successes? What are the problems you can help with
and encouragements you can give? What is a meaningful interaction or
something you would not like to repeat? What really annoys you, and
can you turn this into something else?

Looking at the law with new eyes.
Why do we not steal? Because it destroys the good things people do.
If you steal from a shop and they go bust, no more shops, no more ability
to supply things we need. In recognising the role others play in our lives
we begin to see the evil we do hurts us as well as them.

David thought about and dwelt upon the law. He understood the mind of
God and how important it is for us to recognise one another. So should we.

 

[calibob]

Wait a min. It's late, I was between rooms.

IT'S NOT SLAVERY IF WE DO IT JOYFULLY! Now that's the crux isn't it. We love God! We are his children! We can't speak for the others. We will lend them every hand available because we have faith. If we capsize God will save us!

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Wait a min. It's late, I was between rooms.

IT'S NOT SLAVERY IF WE DO IT JOYFULLY! Now that's the crux isn't it. We love God! We are his children! We can't speak for the others. We will lend them every hand available because we have faith. If we capsize God will save us!

I think the term slavery is used by Paul to define our limits, and our recognition we are not
capable of going outside them because that is not our heart.

What concerns me and also interests me is those who find obedience impossible, beyond even
imagining.

Some feel that being of one heart and mind, is loss of individuality.
A lot of the real language and protest is around anger, hurts from the past, and what conformity
means in a negative way, and what recognition love and respect provides if given.

The walk is not easy, or transforming or change and what this means.
I always stand amazed at those who claim these issues can just be ignored and God holds them
secure, when this very statement denies Gods heart and His calling. In Christ there is no
compromise only a desire to walk further, to know more, to see fulfilled His promises.

 

[calibob]

I think the term slavery is used by Paul to define our limits, and our recognition we are not
capable of going outside them because that is not our heart.

What concerns me and also interests me is those who find obedience impossible, beyond even
imagining.

Some feel that being of one heart and mind, is loss of individuality.
A lot of the real language and protest is around anger, hurts from the past, and what conformity
means in a negative way, and what recognition love and respect provides if given.

The walk is not easy, or transforming or change and what this means.
I always stand amazed at those who claim these issues can just be ignored and God holds them
secure, when this very statement denies Gods heart and His calling. In Christ there is no
compromise only a desire to walk further, to know more, to see fulfilled His promises.

It's 4 am bro. You postulate something important but I'm human. I'll get with you mania.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

It's 4 am bro. You postulate something important but I'm human. I'll get with you mania.

I suggest you go to bed and have a good rest brother.

 

[mailmandan]

Now you want to change the definition of fear? And, fear just means 'respect'.

It's you who changes the definition of words in order to accommodate your self righteous works system.

The proper fear of God is fear of offending God, godly respect, reverence for Him.

Strong's Concordance
theosebeia: fear of God
Original Word: θεοσέβεια, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: theosebeia
Phonetic Spelling: (theh-os-eb'-i-ah)
Definition: fear of God
Usage: reverence for God, fear of God, godliness, piety.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 2317 theosébeia – properly, God-fearing (veneration); godly respect, reverence (used only in 1 Tim 2:10). See 2318 (theosebēs).
https://biblehub.com/greek/2317.htm

Prior to my conversion, while still attending the Roman Catholic church several years ago, I basically saw God as a tyrant who couldn't wait to punish me every time I messed up. That is an unhealthy fear!

2 Timothy 1:7 - For God has not given us a spirit of fear/timidity, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

That is what the faith alone people do; they change repent of sins to change your mind about God.

Repent does mean a change of mind. I see that you still have not repented (changed your mind) and placed your faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. It's a shame that human pride will not allow you to repent and believe the gospel.

Strong's Concordance
metanoia: change of mind, repentance
Original Word: μετάνοια, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: metanoia
Phonetic Spelling: (met-an'-oy-ah)
Definition: change of mind, repentance
Usage: repentance, a change of mind, change in the inner man.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 3341 metánoia – literally, "a change of mind" ("after-thought"); repentance. See 3340 /metanoeō ("repent").
https://biblehub.com/greek/3341.htm

Many works-salvationists change repent to "moral self-reformation" and extremists who teach sinless perfection and are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness change repent to "completely stop sinning."

That change obedience to everything God says to only have faith.

You have not even obeyed the gospel (Romans 10:16) so beyond that, obedience to everything God says is futile for you. There is a difference between obeying God/doing God's will in order to become saved: John 6:40 - For My Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

AND obeying God/doing God's will after we have been saved: 1 Thessalonians 5:14 - Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. 15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all. 16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

 

[mailmandan]

We have to watch our lives AND OUR DOCTRINE closely.

It doesn't seem like you did since you go against me for preaching obedience to Christ.

Perverting the gospel by teaching salvation by works/sinless perfection is certainly NOT watching your life and your doctrine closely and is NOT obedience to Christ. (Ephesians 2:8,9; 1 John 1:8-10; Galatians 1:6-9; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4)

1 Timothy 4:16 Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.

In regards to 1 Timothy 4:16, we are not passive in persevering in our faith, but it's not in our own power that we persevere. (1 Corinthians 1:8; 1 Peter 1:5) God alone saves, but "in a sense" we save ourselves and others through perserverance in sound doctrine, as we continue to believe the gospel and are used as God's instruments to bring about the salvation of others through preaching the gospel to them as well.

If you fell into a well with no way out and someone threw down a rope and pulled you out, "in a sense" you can say that you "saved yourself" by choosing to grab and hold onto the rope until that person pulled you out, but ultimately, the person who pulled you out of the well saved you and ultimately, it is Jesus Christ who saves us.

 

[gb9]

some just do not understand, " dead in our trespasses and sins, made alive in Christ".

maybe they need to out and find a dead animal, and set down and watch that animal for a couple of hours and see what the dead animal does to help itself.

 

[mailmandan]

You aren't saved until you have faith that is not dead.

Ephesians 2:5 - even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)...through faith, not by works.. *Faith is now alive.* How do we show that our faith is alive? By works. James 2:18 - But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

Works-salvationists erroneously teach that faith is dead UNTIL it produces works and then it becomes alive (as if works are the source of life in faith), which is like saying that a tree is dead UNTIL it produces fruit (as if fruit is the source of life in the tree).

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Ephesians 2:5 - even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)...through faith, not by works.. *Faith is now alive.* How do we show that our faith is alive? By works. James 2:18 - But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

Works-salvationists erroneously teach that faith is dead UNTIL it produces works and then it becomes alive (as if works are the source of life in faith), which is like saying that a tree is dead UNTIL it produces fruit (as if fruit is the source of life in the tree).

Surely faith is either alive or dead?
Either you are happy with wickedness or you desire to do good?

Is the proposition desiring to do good is good enough?
Like the sinner after he murdered someone wishing it had not happened.
Duh!!! Everyone wishes they were not in the mess they are in, except some
actually believe Jesus can take us out of this mess.

That is called faith in Him.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

It's you who changes the definition of words in order to accommodate your self righteous works system.

The proper fear of God is fear of offending God, godly respect, reverence for Him.

Strong's Concordance
theosebeia: fear of God
Original Word: θεοσέβεια, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: theosebeia
Phonetic Spelling: (theh-os-eb'-i-ah)
Definition: fear of God
Usage: reverence for God, fear of God, godliness, piety.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 2317 theosébeia – properly, God-fearing (veneration); godly respect, reverence (used only in 1 Tim 2:10). See 2318 (theosebēs).
https://biblehub.com/greek/2317.htm

Prior to my conversion, while still attending the Roman Catholic church several years ago, I basically saw God as a tyrant who couldn't wait to punish me every time I messed up. That is an unhealthy fear!

2 Timothy 1:7 - For God has not given us a spirit of fear/timidity, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

Repent does mean a change of mind. I see that you still have not repented (changed your mind) and placed your faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. It's a shame that human pride will not allow you to repent and believe the gospel.

Strong's Concordance
metanoia: change of mind, repentance
Original Word: μετάνοια, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: metanoia
Phonetic Spelling: (met-an'-oy-ah)
Definition: change of mind, repentance
Usage: repentance, a change of mind, change in the inner man.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 3341 metánoia – literally, "a change of mind" ("after-thought"); repentance. See 3340 /metanoeō ("repent").
https://biblehub.com/greek/3341.htm

Many works-salvationists change repent to "moral self-reformation" and extremists who teach sinless perfection and are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness change repent to "completely stop sinning."

You have not even obeyed the gospel (Romans 10:16) so beyond that, obedience to everything God says is futile for you. There is a difference between obeying God/doing God's will in order to become saved: John 6:40 - For My Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

AND obeying God/doing God's will after we have been saved: 1 Thessalonians 5:14 - Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. 15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all. 16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

Do you turn from sin and desire to do good?
If not one has not repented.

And of course this turning is changing ones mind as regards what is acceptable
behaviour and what is not. And by walking in the ways of Jesus means you now
agree with His perfect will and His desires.

Summary faith is worthless if the summary is in error.
Talking that holiness can be desecrated and called holy is foolish.
Those who do such things, end with sinners, no matter what they delude themselves
they believe. Their actions speak louder than their words as to who their master is
and who they serve.

28 And now, dear children, continue in him, so that when he appears we may be confident and unashamed before him at his coming.
29 If you know that he is righteous, you know that everyone who does what is right has been born of him.
1 John 2:28-29

7 He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.
8 He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work.
1 John 3:7-8

So what are you and where is your loyalty. To the devil and sinful behaviour, or to Jesus and being righteous.

 

[UnderGrace]

We could never do enough "works" to put God in our debt.

The people used to have to do works of the law to clean themselves just to be called a child of God and be near His Spirit.

These are the things BESIDES doing right and NOT sinning:

The Burnt Offering; The Grain Offering; The Fellowship Offering; The Sin Offering; The Guilt Offering; Dietary Laws; Purification After Childbirth; Cleansing From Infectious Skin Diseases; Cleansing From Mildew; Discharges Causing Uncleanness; The Day of Atonement; Rules for Priests; The Sabbath; Firstfruits; The Passover and Unleavened Bread; Feast of Weeks; Feast of Trumpets; Feast of Tabernacles; Oil and Bread Set Before The LORD; the Sabbath Year; The Year of Jubilee; Circumcision.


THOSE are the works that we no longer have to do!

 

[UnderGrace]

Jesus tells us what to do to get saved.

We could never do enough "obeying" to put God in our debt.

 

[gb9]

remember, while followingpeterjensteps is droning on and on about sin and repentance , he does not recognize the actual definition of sin, these words are like a balloon- pretty on the outside, just air with no substance on the inside.