NDEs and ADCs: Their Apologetic Value for the Christian Faith

MadHermit · Mar 17, 2019

(7) My next NDE is so unique that it is surely one of the most faith-inspiring. It seems to involve divine control of a tractor. Pastor Dave replaced me after I retired. He shares the testimony of a farmer who lived in the Colfax, WA region. The farmer was ploughing one of his fields, when he reached for something, lost his balance, and fell off the tractor. The huge tractor wheel ran across his chest, crushing ribs, and leaving him seriously injured. But he then had an NDE, during which he was told that his time was not up and he still had a purpose to fulfill on earth.

But he could barely move and his tractor had continued on without a driver and had vanished over the slope of his field. His situation seemed hopeless, but just then, he saw his driverless tractor returning over the slope where it had vanished. The tractor came towards him. Would it crush his body? No, it motored to his left, and then stopped, idling right beside him! With great difficulty, he was able to climb aboard and get to his house, from which his family was able to get him the medical help he needed to survive.

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MadHermit · Mar 20, 2019

(8) NDEs Supporting Claims that the Dead Monitor the Living (as implied by Hebrews 12:1--see explanation in OP):

I had just performed a wedding at my church in Buffalo, NY, and was now attending the reception at a country club. I happened to sit next to Phyllis, a rather aloof but attractive blonde doctor and medical researcher. She shared her 2 highly instructive NDEs with me. She had never believed in NDEs prior to her own experience. The first was triggered by a car accident. She found herself floating up to "a mall that really wasn't a mall. It was a mall composed of white light."

There she came upon a court area with several tables and a hidden orchestra playing beautiful music. Seated at one of the tables was her deceased mother. When Phyllis joined her, the Mom chided her, "You really need to grieve over my passing. Your inability to do so in hampering my progress over here!" This guilt trip made Phyllis very uncomfortable. She had always dealt with tragedy and disappointment by detaching from her emotions. Finally, she excused herself,"Well, I guess I'll try to get back into my body now."

A couple of years later, Phyllis was taken to the hospital for a serious operation.
She didn't explicitly identify her illness, but she gave me the impression it was a woman's ailment like cervical cancer. Her illness triggered another NDE. She again found herself in the "mall of white light" at her mother's table in the court area. Her mother again lit into her," I told you your failure to grieve my passing is preventing my progress over here! Why haven't you done what I asked?"

The soothing orchestra music in the background actually grated on Phyllis's nerves. She hadn't expected this second confrontation. Upset, she again suggested that she should leave. But her mother retorted, "No, you're not ready to leave! You need to go with these 2 gentlemen." Two tall men in white robes appeared and led her to "an elevator that wasn't really an elevator. It was an elevator of white light." They ascended to what seemed like a spirit hospital. Some sort of "medical" procedure was performed on Dr. Phyllis, which she didn't understand. Then she was returned to her hospital bed in this world. The "medical" procedure had cured her and she was released from the hospital!

I never saw Phyllis again. Obviously, I was only dimly aware of the psychological baggage between her and her Mom. I have since often wondered if Phyllis was ever able to get in touch with her emotions and grieve her loss. Two intriguing inferences might be drawn from her NDEs: (1) After a loved one's death, our ongoing reactions or lack of same can affect our loved ones' progress on the other side. (2) Paranormal reports (e. g. in OBEs) of a mall-like meeting area and some sort of rehab center in Paradise just might be true.

Angela53510 · Mar 20, 2019

MadHermit said:

Haha! You must be joking! I am from Kelowna, and had never heard of this pastor.

Google tells me he was a pastor of the United Church of Canada. This is literally the most apostate denomination in Canada. It was formed of Methodists and Presbyterians at the beginning of the 20th century. It is a great example of what happens when Arminians and Calvinists try to compromise. You end up with no doctrine at all. And certainly no evangelism'

A typical United church will have a rainbow banner across the front, and some kind of words about affirming gays. You might encounter a seance, a meeting to discuss BDS and how to help support the Palestinians more, or mock those who believe the Bible.

I went to United Church Sunday School in the 1960's. We did not take a Bible, or use them. They did sing all the verses of Holy, holy, holy, which I learned during those 2 years. The only thing I learned.

To say this NDE is a witness, when the person doesn't you cited doesn't even know the gospel? You are stretching to make your point!

PS we had an interim pastor who had been ordained in the United church. When the gay supporters won out, he was defrocked for refusing to go along with it, and stripped of his congregation. Fortunately, he found another denomination that appreciated his conservative views.

Angela53510 · Mar 20, 2019

Lanolin said:

And here is a verse which agrees with you! We should never look to the dead, or those who say they have died!

"The person who turns to the spirits of the dead and familiar spirits to commit prostitution by going after them, I will set my face against that person and cut him off from the midst of his people." Lev. 20:6

Instead, turn to Jesus! That is the only apologetic anyone needs!

MadHermit · Mar 20, 2019

Angela: "And here is a verse which agrees with you! We should never look to ...those who say they have died!"

Well, the risen Jesus says He had died--died for our sins. So by implication, we should never "look to" Jesus?

Angela: "Instead, turn to Jesus! That is the only apologetic anyone needs!"

Ah, now you are contradicting yourself! No, secular society widely believes Gospel stories are mostly legends. It's mindless to "turn to Jesus" with no evidence. And Albert Baldeo, whom you ridicule, experienced glorious evidence for postmortem survival from 2 simultaneous NDEs in which his Dad and his Dad's brother talked to each other 10 miles apart before family witnesses!

Angela: "Haha! You must be joking! I am from Kelowna, and had never heard of this pastor."

So I guess you barely read your local newspaper! It was your paper that described Albert as one of "the most respected pastors in Kelowna." That widespread respect is no doubt why Albert was given a weekly column in it, where he shared his NDE testimony. My parents in Kelowna knew him personally and mailed that column to me. If you had actually read my NDE account carefully, you would realize that I met with Albert personally to confirm the awesome details of his testimony.

Angela: "Google tells me he was a pastor of the United Church of Canada. This is literally the most apostate denomination in Canada.
To say this NDE is a witness, when the person doesn't you cited doesn't even know the gospel? You are stretching to make your point!"

Now your mindless judgmental spirit is on full display! First, Albert was saved in Trinidad under the ministry of my Pentecostal uncle and was noted for being theologically conservative. Second, a retired United Church minister and his wife used to drive down from Grand Forks, BC to attend my church in the USA--and he testified to being saved in the Billy Graham crusade in Winnipeg in 1967!

Angela53510 · Mar 21, 2019

MadHermit said:

I read this pastor was slightly more conservative than most United Church ministers.

However, he remained a pastor after ordination of gays was approved, and gay marriage. Our interim pastor 2 years ago had been a United Church pastor. When he refused to marry gay people, he was defrocked. All United Church pastors who would not marry gays were defrocked. This man was not!

In other words, he married gays. Great witness, (NOT!) to anyone who stayed in that apostate church, and is involved in the whole pride movement.

As for the KJV, I used that version in Baptist Sunday School when I was 6, 7, and 8. I memorized many verses, yet never understood the gospel as an 8 year old child. I still cannot understand it, because I have never studied that version of English. Give me Greek, Hebrew, French, German or Spanish any day over the KJV. E

Angela53510 · Mar 21, 2019

MadHermit said:

You really don't know or believe the Bible at all! NDEs May happen, but show me one verse in the Bible that says that they are a great apologetic, or anywhere it says to preach about some vision, real or not, which focuses on self and not God, and I will eat my hat!

God is the gospel! Not NDEs!!

I say that we should NOT listen to the dead, or those who say they have come back from the dead, and you say that includes Jesus?

Jesus died in the cross for our sins. When he was resurrected (something very different than a NDE) he showed the power of God! And Jesus is God, and he still lives. Plus he is coming again.

When I read what you have written, I doubt you have been saved by God. This entire thread is blasphemous! God calls people through the proclamation of the gospel! That is the Biblical way!

"But we ought to thank God always for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. 14 He called you to this salvation through our gospel, so that you may possess the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ." 2 Thess. 2:13-14

God calls us, through the preaching of the gospel! That is a biblical truth.

oldethennew · Mar 21, 2019

amen Sister...

MadHermit · Mar 22, 2019

Angela: "You really don't know or believe the Bible at all!"
You are as ignorantly judgmental towards me as you are towards Rev. Baldeo. I know Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek and was a Theology professor for 12 years. What are your credentials?

Angela: "NDEs May happen, but show me one verse in the Bible that says that they are a great apologetic, or anywhere it says to preach about some vision, real or not, which focuses on self and not God, and I will eat my hat!"

NDEs are a type of vision and on the epic Day of Pentecost Peter preaches: "In the last days I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh..., and your old men shall dream dreams and your young men shall see visions (Acts 2:18, quoting Joel 2:28)." In the OP, which you have not read carefully, I ground NDEs in other texts for this type of phenomenon. The Bible says nothing about apologetics. That's a modern term for tactics to be used in persuading non-Christians. As I have mentioned, the evidence for an afterlife from NDEs and ADCs is far superior to that for Jesus' resurrection and for that very reason supports the credibility of His resurrection! You're in no position to dispute that because you neither watched the posted videos nor carefully read my case histories. I have used NDEs and ADCs with great effect in witnessing to the unsaved.

Angela: "When I read what you have written, I doubt you have been saved by God."
So shamefully judgmental towards a Christian you don't know! I have spent a whole summer witnessing to the Gospel across Canada door-to-door and in the city streets. Have you done that? I have also prepared several people for the ministry.

MadHermit · Mar 22, 2019

And Angela, NDEs glorify God, not self, because nothing can surpass the experience of God's love that showers NDErs in their life-changing experience.

Angela53510 · Mar 22, 2019

MadHermit said:

Angela: "You really don't know or believe the Bible at all!"
You are as ignorantly judgmental towards me as you are towards Rev. Baldeo. I know Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek and was a Theology professor for 12 years. What are your credentials?

Angela: "NDEs May happen, but show me one verse in the Bible that says that they are a great apologetic, or anywhere it says to preach about some vision, real or not, which focuses on self and not God, and I will eat my hat!"

NDEs are a type of vision and on the epic Day of Pentecost Peter preaches: "In the last days I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh..., and your old men shall dream dreams and your young men shall see visions (Acts 2:18, quoting Joel 2:28)." In the OP, which you have not read carefully, I ground NDEs in other texts for this type of phenomenon. The Bible says nothing about apologetics. That's a modern term for tactics to be used in persuading non-Christians. As I have mentioned, the evidence for an afterlife from NDEs and ADCs is far superior to that for Jesus' resurrection and for that very reason supports the credibility of His resurrection! You're in no position to dispute that because you neither watched the posted videos nor carefully read my case histories. I have used NDEs and ADCs with great effect in witnessing to the unsaved.

Angela: "When I read what you have written, I doubt you have been saved by God."
So shamefully judgmental towards a Christian you don't know! I have spent a whole summer witnessing to the Gospel across Canada door-to-door and in the city streets. Have you done that? I have also prepared several people for the ministry.

I'm working on a PhD in theology. I know Greek, and Hebrew and German. Funny how you don't quote the Bible, just these liberal people who also don't use the Bible!

Where did you get your PhD? You don't have to say, I was just curious as to where you trained, (if you did!). With what you post, and your worship of these unbiblical NDEs.

Angela53510 · Mar 22, 2019

MadHermit said:

I'm working on a PhD in theology. I know Greek, and Hebrew and German, and French. Funny how you don't quote the Bible, just these liberal people who also don't use the Bible!

Where did you get your PhD? You don't have to say, I was just curious as to where you trained, (if you did!). With what you post, and your worship of these unbiblical NDEs.

I also find it odd that someone with a degree in theology would say Jesus death in the cross was a ADE, when he came back to life. That is blasphemous, no if's, ands or buts!

MadHermit · Mar 24, 2019

Angela: "I also find it odd that someone with a degree in theology would say Jesus death in the cross was a ADE, when he came back to life. That is blasphemous, no if's, ands or buts."

Get your facts straight:
(1) "ADC" simply means "after-death contact. So Jesus' resurrection appearances qualify as ADCs. So it would be absurd to label Jesus' death on the cross as an ADE (You meant to say "ADC.")
(2) Second, The most evidential NDEs and ADCs provide evidence of verifications superior to that for Jesus' resurrection and for that very reason confirm the possibility of Jesus' resurrection! This fact is important as a response to skeptics who dismiss Gospel resurrection reports as either as hallucinations or later fictions.
(3) Actually read my OP, which provides biblical evidence of ADCs.

MadHermit · Mar 27, 2019

(10) ARTIFACTS LEFT AS EVIDENCE BY THE DECEASED:
In post #4 (case (2), I quoted Rev. Vincent's description of his deceased wife's appearance to her family of 5 during which she moved around, conversing and blessing everyone in a manner reminiscent of Christ's Easter appearances. As verification, she left a calendula flower from etheric realms, which they pressed and kept. Here are 2 similar cases of mementos left by the deceased:

(A) Dr. Lermer shared this experience with us. He was at a female patient's deathbed in Houston, when he witnessed a light over her body and heard her talking to some etheric being present to take her away. But before she passed, she cupped her hands to receive something and beckoned Dr. Lermer to come and take it. It was a 4-leaf clover, reminiscent of Nellie's calendula. After he received this, the woman passed away. Curious, Dr. Lermer put the 4-leaf clover inside a jar and kept it under observation. To his astonishment, he observed it slowly dematerialize over a 2 week period, evidently because it was made of etheric matter.

(B) In my former 2-church UMC charge in western NY, I once preached a sermon on the Transfiguration. At the sermon's conclusion, I found myself saying, "And some of you will have a mountaintop experience very shortly. I was surprised to hear those words come out of my mouth and immediately regretted them.

But the next day, John, a parishioner and a Kodak executive , contacted me to discuss a strange discovery he had made on a tiny ledge well up the mountain, a nice ring that fit him perfectly. While I was pondering the unlikelihood of this discovery, my worship chairman, Bob, called to tell me that his mother's ring, which had vanished 30 years ago, suddenly materialized on the bedspread of his made bed. Bob had just moved into this house 4 years ago. He set the ring aside to show me, but it dematerialized the next day. To his astonishment, his friend later told him that a family ring had suddenly materialized in his home as well!

It struck me that John's discovery of the ring high up on a mountain ledge was the fulfillment of my prophecy of an immediate mountaintop experience. But the materialization and later dematerialization of the ring owned by Bob's late mother was apparently intended to cast John's discovery in the light of another mountaintop experience. I had just preached on the Transfiguration, during which Moses and Elijah suddenly materialize to be present with Jesus, Peter, James, and John, and then dematerialize. I had recently preached a sermon on the Parable of the Prodigal Son in which I stressed the symbolism of the ring of sonship that the Father gave his returning son. I wondered if Nellie's etheric calendula had also dematerialized from the scrap book. I have no way of finding the answer now.

MadHermit · Mar 30, 2019

(11) POPE ENDORSES COMMUNICATIONS FROM THE DEAD.

Father Gemelli (a medical doctor) and Father Ernetti were in the University of Milan's Physics Lab researching ways to filter the taped sounds of Gregorian chant to enhance their acoustical purity. Then on Sept. 17, 1952 they experienced an auditory ADC that would shock the Catholic world. I'll quote David Fontana's magisterial book, "Is There an Afterife? A Comprehensive Overview of the Evidence:"

"The efforts of the two priests were hampered by the fact that the wire used by tape recorders before the invention of magnetic tape broke frequently and required constant and delicate repair work. Finally Father Gemelli, as was his habit when exasperated, called on his deceased father for help. On starting the machine again the Fathers heard, not the Gregorian chant upon which they were working, but the voice of Gemelli senior, "Of course I'll help you! I'm always with you."

After hearing this, Pope Pius XII "considered that the reception of the voice through an electronic machine might initiate "a new scientific study for confirming faith in the afterlife (p, 365)."" Just imagine if we had the risen Christ's voice on tape!

posthuman · Mar 30, 2019

MadHermit said:

"called on his deceased father for help" ?

and you're endorsing this?

There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead, for whoever does these things is detestable to the LORD
(Deuteronomy 18:10-12)

it really matters nothing what kind of 'credentials' you think to boast of.

oyster67 · Mar 30, 2019

Why do so many people think they can improve on the Bible way and God's way?

Psalms 127:1 A Song of degrees for Solomon. Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh [but] in vain.

MadHermit · Mar 30, 2019

posthumanzzz: "... on his deceased father for help" ?
and you're endorsing this"

Absolutely! And on solid biblical grounds, of which you are apparently oblivious! The priest was NOT actually seeking his Dad's intervention and thus was gob-smacked by the supernatural result. So your anti-necromancy prooftexts are irrelevant.

posthuman · Mar 30, 2019

MadHermit said:

here's some interesting background:

http://www.unmuseum.org/chronovisor.htm

Ernetti claimed to have built a machine that let him travel through time and photograph it.
he said he went back in time and took this photo of Christ:

turns out it is a horizontally flipped version of a picture sold in a not-too-distant church gift shop, a photo of a wooden carving there.

Ernetti kind of dropped off the radar after his hoax was pointed out, and died in 1994.

so @MadHermit -- you got a phd? nice!
you learned to do research and stuff, right? check out sources?
interesting.

posthuman · Mar 30, 2019

MadHermit said:

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NDEs and ADCs: Their Apologetic Value for the Christian Faith

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