The Great Tribulation VS The Rapture Debate

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Hevosmies

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Sep 8, 2018
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I gave scripture..

1 cor is the passage on our trial by fire. If our work endures we will recieve reward. if it does not. It will burn, but even so, we will be saved even as through fire

Rev assage says death and hades were delivered to christ for judgement.

A child of God is not dead, He has been made alive, And he is not in hades, that is the place for the dead.

All who go to the great white throne judgment of Rev are cast into hell

But just in case you do not want to look it up.

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [c]God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second [d]death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.,


Notice is says they were delivers. Jesu ssaid he will raise us up. Not have us delievered to him. No believers will be at this judgment.
But what about those who died during the millennium? They should be resurrected at that point, right? It even mentions the book of life there. so I believe those guys should be there.

Otherwise those guys wont ever be resurrected.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
But what about those who died during the millennium? They should be resurrected at that point, right? It even mentions the book of life there. so I believe those guys should be there.

Otherwise those guys wont ever be resurrected.
They will be ressurected, not delivered. They too will have their own bema
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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But what about those who died during the millennium? They should be resurrected at that point, right? It even mentions the book of life there. so I believe those guys should be there.

Otherwise those guys wont ever be resurrected.
Recall the two kind mentioned in John 5:29.

--"unto the resurrection OF LIFE"

--"unto the resurrection OF DAMNATION/JUDGMENT"

Now, it is my understanding that the GWTj is of the latter category (esp. when we see the TWO "PUNISH" words [separated by a time period] shown in Isaiah 24:21-22(23) which is parallel time-wise with Revelation 19:19,21/16:14-16/20:5), the SECOND "PUNISH" word speaking of the later GWTj (the final carrying out of the sentence); but this later judgment ALSO includes "the dead [/unsaved] of ALL TIMES (so too the MK rebellious [/unsaved] who are the only ones who DO DIE during the MK rule/reign). So Rev20:13 says "the [sea...and death and hell] gave up the dead"... and they are judged... verse 12 says "the book of life" (note: not the Lamb's Book of Life), which "book of life" I believe is a record of all who have lived (see Psalm 69:28 - "28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.");

...and note that John 5:29 uses the word: G1607 - ekporeusontai ; SEE:

[G1607; quoting from Bible Hub]

"Usage: I depart from; I am voided, cast out; I proceed from, am spoken; I burst forth, flow out, am spread abroad.

"HELPS Word-studies
1607
ekporeúomai (from 1537 /ek, "out from," intensifying 4198 /poreúomai, "take a particular passageway") – properly, go out from, emphasizing the outcome (end-impact) of going through a particular process or passage – i.e. the influence on the person (or thing) which comes forth. Note the force of the prefix 1537 (ek). 1607 /ekporeúomai ("come out from") Links the source to the outcome (influence) on the object (as specified by the individual context)."

[end quoting]


So, at the GWTj, only "the dead [/unrighteous; /unsaved] (of all times) is present there for that. They are judge "according to their works [plural]."

Hope this helps some.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I gave scripture..

1 cor is the passage on our trial by fire. If our work endures we will recieve reward. if it does not. It will burn, but even so, we will be saved even as through fire

Rev assage says death and hades were delivered to christ for judgement.

A child of God is not dead, He has been made alive, And he is not in hades, that is the place for the dead.

All who go to the great white throne judgment of Rev are cast into hell

But just in case you do not want to look it up.

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [c]God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second [d]death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.,


Notice is says they were delivers. Jesu ssaid he will raise us up. Not have us delievered to him. No believers will be at this judgment.
Amen.....blessed is he that hath part in the 1ST RESURRECTION upon whom the 2nd death hath no power............
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Jesus has 1 coming left......it ALL MUST JIVE with one coming AND DOES if viewed from the 3 events listed at the 7th TRUMP...

Was
Is
IS TO COME

Al three days are tied into ONE DAY-->the day of the LORD, CHRIST, GOD.......

AS LORD HE SIEZES CONTROL OF ALL EARTHLY KINGDOMS

AS CHRIST HE REWARDS THE SAINTS, PROPHETS AND THOSE THAT FEAR GOD YOUNG AND OLD

AS GOD HE POURS OUT HIS WRATH ON THE PLANET GATHERED UNDER THE BEAST
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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^ EDIT (to add to the end of my post--ran outta mins :D )

So G1607 is made up of "ek" and "G4198 - poreuomai":

[quoting regarding G4198 from Bible Hub]

"HELPS Word-studies
4198
poreúomai (from poros, "passageway") – properly, to transport, moving something from one destination (port) to another; (figuratively) to go or depart, emphasizing the personal meaning which is attached to reaching the particular destination."

[end quoting]
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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But what about those who died during the millennium? They should be resurrected at that point, right? It even mentions the book of life there. so I believe those guys should be there.

Otherwise those guys wont ever be resurrected.
It states they will be given unto the age of 100 to repent....my view.....their change is instant at the moment of belief........and if a man is considered a child at 100 it seems obvious the age of man is again extended like during the time of Adam......just my view based on things said in Isaiah...maybe a few other books
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
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I gave scripture..

1 cor is the passage on our trial by fire. If our work endures we will recieve reward. if it does not. It will burn, but even so, we will be saved even as through fire

Rev assage says death and hades were delivered to christ for judgement.

A child of God is not dead, He has been made alive, And he is not in hades, that is the place for the dead.

All who go to the great white throne judgment of Rev are cast into hell

But just in case you do not want to look it up.

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [c]God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second [d]death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.,


Notice is says they were delivers. Jesu ssaid he will raise us up. Not have us delievered to him. No believers will be at this judgment.

I believe the Revelation 20 11- 15 judgement is the final judgement.. This judgement happens 1000 years after the return of Jesus at the end of the 1000 year millennial kingdom.. This is not the first judgement that will happen when Jesus returns.. We seem to be on totally different pages here..
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I believe the Revelation 20 11- 15 judgement is the final judgement.. This judgement happens 1000 years after the return of Jesus at the end of the 1000 year millennial kingdom.. This is not the first judgement that will happen when Jesus returns.. We seem to be on totally different pages here..
We are

The judgment is rev 20 is the judgment on ALL unbeieverswho will remain in their graves until that day. Their eternal destination is on triel. And they are all found guilty.

Believers on the other hand will be RESSURECTED by Christ, and hold seperate judgments. They will be judged for how worthy they are of rewards Not for their eternal destination.
 

Adstar

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Jul 24, 2016
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We are

The judgment is rev 20 is the judgment on ALL unbeieverswho will remain in their graves until that day. Their eternal destination is on triel. And they are all found guilty.

Believers on the other hand will be RESSURECTED by Christ, and hold seperate judgments. They will be judged for how worthy they are of rewards Not for their eternal destination.
The scriptures at the end of Revelation 20 do not clearly state that all who are raised and judged on that day will be cast into the eternal lake of fire..

Revelation 20: KJV

11 "And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. {12} And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. {13} And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. {14} And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. {15} And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
The rapture happens on the day of the return of Jesus.. Study Scriptures..
We have.

And No matter what evidence peole show. We can’t see it. Far to much against it than for it.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
The scriptures at the end of Revelation 20 do not clearly state that all who are raised and judged on that day will be cast into the eternal lake of fire..

Revelation 20: KJV
11 "And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. {12} And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. {13} And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. {14} And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. {15} And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
Why did you ignore what I posted?

Who is delivered on that day?

1. The dead.
2. Death and hades are DELIVERED (not resurrected)


Who is cast into the lake of fire?

1. The dead
2. Death and Hell


If your a child of God

1. Your alive (and we who were DEAD have been made ALIVE
2. They will LIVE FOREVER (Eternal life)
3. We will be ressurected NOT DELIVERED. (John 6 - I will rise them on the last day)
 

Adstar

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Jul 24, 2016
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Why did you ignore what I posted?

Who is delivered on that day?

1. The dead.
2. Death and hades are DELIVERED (not resurrected)


Who is cast into the lake of fire?

1. The dead
2. Death and Hell


If your a child of God

1. Your alive (and we who were DEAD have been made ALIVE
2. They will LIVE FOREVER (Eternal life)
3. We will be ressurected NOT DELIVERED. (John 6 - I will rise them on the last day)
I did not ignore what you posted.. I responded to what you posted..

The scripture does not say the dead will be cast into the Lake of fire.. It says Death will be cast into the lake of fire.. Meaning that physical death will no longer exist past this point in time..

Revelation 20 KJV
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

I am a Child of God and i will probably experience physical death like so many millions of other Christians through history before me who experienced physical death..

Yes i will live forever After the first resurrection or rapture depending on if i am still alive at the time this happens..

All people will be resurrected,, all will be given eternal bodies.. Some to exist in Eternity with God in his perfect eternal existence, Others to exist forever in the Lake of Fire..
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I did not ignore what you posted.. I responded to what you posted..

The scripture does not say the dead will be cast into the Lake of fire.. It says Death will be cast into the lake of fire.. Meaning that physical death will no longer exist past this point in time..

Revelation 20 KJV
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

I am a Child of God and i will probably experience physical death like so many millions of other Christians through history before me who experienced physical death..

Yes i will live forever After the first resurrection or rapture depending on if i am still alive at the time this happens..

All people will be resurrected,, all will be given eternal bodies.. Some to exist in Eternity with God in his perfect eternal existence, Others to exist forever in the Lake of Fire..
If you want to be at the great white throne judgment. Feel free. Just know. No one who goes there will get out.

Me. I will pray I have something other than ashes left when I am judged.

Death is dead. I am alive, and I have eternal life. Jesus took my penalty for me, thats why I will not be at the great white throne.

But again, if you wish to go. Feel free.
 

Adstar

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Jul 24, 2016
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If you want to be at the great white throne judgment. Feel free. Just know. No one who goes there will get out.

Me. I will pray I have something other than ashes left when I am judged.

Death is dead. I am alive, and I have eternal life. Jesus took my penalty for me, thats why I will not be at the great white throne.

But again, if you wish to go. Feel free.
I do not believe i will be judged at the final judgement.. I believe i will either be raised from the dead on the day of the return of Jesus ( 1000 years before the final judgement) Or if i am still alive i will take part in the rapture..

I really don't know how you came to the conclusion that i wanted to take part in the final judgement.. I most certainly don't..
 

Bingo

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Feb 9, 2019
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~Divine Inspiration With An Earthly Story~ ( Parables )
"Christ taught in parables to invite us to reexamine some of our most cherished convictions about matters of 'Eternal Importance'. For this reason, Jesus’s parables often unsettle rather than reassure."
(Know this and know it well. A parable, or an allegory story
designed to illustrate or teach a 'moral' lesson...to convey a
meaning indirectly by use of comparison.)
"Ponder these words carefully."........The Divine words tell
us precisely...what you see is not what is meant...'They look
and look, but do not see.'
( "The parable is, has been and always will be,
the language of the wise for speaking to the simple,
and the langage of the simple for speaking to the wise…"

'Praise God'
 

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Jul 23, 2018
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Try again........all that will not receive the love of the truth PAL.....WHO ARE THE ONES BEING KILLED FOR NOT TAKING IT....geesh..do you guys study or just bloviate opinions without knowledge..........
Yes
Those refusing die.
They take it or die
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
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The rapture happens on the day of the return of Jesus.. Study Scriptures..
Not in my KJV Bible. Then please show me scriptures which support that conclusion. I am not familiar with them.
Are you telling me that Christ is to return and be on the earth for ....only.....the blink of an eye? Not for the one thousand year reign?
He is not returning with..."His armies"...(saved from all ages)...as stated in the bible at His 2nd advent?
Really?
 

preston39

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Dec 18, 2017
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timed...cont'd

His 2nd advent is scheduled later in the 7 year trib. period to confront all the nations doing battle with Israel..... ...at the battle of Armageddon.

While the rapture is no doubt a divine event............ that is not the 2nd advent of Christ.