Not By Works

[FollowHisSteps]

Paul is speaking about the works of the law, which are the purification works.
In Ephesians it is about doing good after being saved, which does NOT nullify the fact that we have to do something with our faith when we want to get saved, like REPENT OF OUR SINS.
The boasting no one can do now is what the Jews did with the PURIFICATION WORKS of the law.
Paul does NOT say we can't boast in obeying God!
Paul tell us he boasts in himself and us, and how we can do the same.

People have a problem with boasting in the work God has done in all our lives.
Paul does not. The reason why these people cannot boast in anything because there
is no goal for them to be like Jesus and walk in His ways. They have no encouragement.

And probably rightly so if their hearts are in the mess they appear to be and they testify
to all the time. Did Paul write, "woe is me I am a sinner in need of Christs forgiveness today."
No he praised God for the ministry he had been given and the good work he could do among
the believers, Amen.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Not sure wha


Hev, this "saying that faith alone people have not stopped even one sin" what does this mean?

Could it have been a miss-understanding?
Some talk about bearing false witness when it is not.

If all men are sinners in the flesh 24/7 then I am a sinner.
If men can be washed clean and forgiven of sin in the past then they are no longer sinners
but redeemed. Sometimes such descriptions or ideas applied to others are true.

So if I say though "faith alone unbelief" means no sin is forgiven, in the context of that phrase
as I say it, it is true. Forgiveness only applies for true belief or faith, because it is Jesus who
forgives those who rightly believe in Him. I could believe in Christ like a lucky charm, it does
not make me forgiven. So one could say someone is bearing false witness when they are speaking
the truth in their world view.

It is why talking sin and sinning in this regard is often just disputing and causing friction.
People bear false witness that I am a works salvationist, but so what, it is their problem.

Are we sinners or are we saints??

Romans 1:7
To all those in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12
Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

1 Corinthians 14:33
For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,

Hebrews 12:1
Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,


1 Corinthians 1:2
To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours:

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

Romans 12:2
Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

Acts 9:13
But Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to your saints at Jerusalem.

 

[GodsGrace101]

People have a problem with boasting in the work God has done in all our lives.
Paul does not. The reason why these people cannot boast in anything because there
is no goal for them to be like Jesus and walk in His ways. They have no encouragement.

And probably rightly so if their hearts are in the mess they appear to be and they testify
to all the time. Did Paul write, "woe is me I am a sinner in need of Christs forgiveness today."
No he praised God for the ministry he had been given and the good work he could do among
the believers, Amen.

It looks like Paul DID DO some boasting...


2 Corinthians 11:16-33 New International Version (NIV)
Paul Boasts About His Sufferings
16 I repeat: Let no one take me for a fool. But if you do, then tolerate me just as you would a fool, so that I may do a little boasting.
17 In this self-confident boasting I am not talking as the Lord would, but as a fool.
18 Since many are boasting in the way the world does, I too will boast.
19 You gladly put up with fools since you are so wise!
20 In fact, you even put up with anyone who enslaves youor exploits you or takes advantage of you or puts on airs or slaps you in the face.
21 To my shame I admit that we were too weak for that!
Whatever anyone else dares to boast about—I am speaking as a fool—I also dare to boast about.
22 Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they Abraham’s descendants? So am I. 23 Are they servants of Christ? (I am out of my mind to talk like this.) I am more. I have worked much harder, been in prison more frequently, been flogged more severely, and been exposed to death again and again.
24 Five times I received from the Jews the forty lashes minus one.
25 Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was pelted with stones, three times I was shipwrecked, I spent a night and a day in the open sea,
26 I have been constantly on the move. I have been in danger from rivers, in danger from bandits, in danger from my fellow Jews, in danger from Gentiles; in danger in the city, in danger in the country, in danger at sea; and in danger from false believers.
27 I have labored and toiled and have often gone without sleep; I have known hunger and thirst and have often gone without food; I have been cold and naked.
28 Besides everything else, I face daily the pressure of my concern for all the churches.
29 Who is weak, and I do not feel weak? Who is led into sin, and I do not inwardly burn?
30 If I must boast, I will boast of the things that show my weakness.
31 The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, who is to be praised forever, knows that I am not lying.
32 In Damascus the governor under King Aretas had the city of the Damascenes guarded in order to arrest me.
33 But I was lowered in a basket from a window in the wall and slipped through his hands.
.............

 

[FollowHisSteps]

For the record,
People are decrying those who are placing obedience (works) as a means of being or maitnianing salvation.
Not obedience itself.
We (those decryign legalism) believe obedience is a natural result of being saved, as we are made new creatures.
Yet they say we are condemning them because they teach obedience. This is a LIE. And these people should be held acountable for thier LIES
Of Course, God will hold them accountable. Our wish is they repent and join us

The above side steps the true issue. Are we to be made into the likeness of Jesus and should we walk like Jesus?
As soon as one gets the reply, no this is impossible, you know the true divide is one of faith and belief.

The next layer down is does a believer ever truly know Holiness. Again if the answer is no, the divide is
one of faith and belief.

So if we say the way is our calling in Christ, and obeying it out of choice and perseverance is part of
salvation and sanctification that cannot be separated there again is a difference of faith and belief.

We would hold the legalism argument is invalid, as is the works salvation argument.
We all have to answer the question when does the imperfect become perfect and how.
I believe it starts at the cross and ends when we meet Him.

Denying sinful behaviour is sinful and breaks our relationship with God, causing a loss of faith,
is our biggest divide. We cannot join easy believism because it denies the realities of the walk,
of the relationship and of our objective. And our summary of this divide is condemnation of
obedience. It is represented by condemning the righteous as hypocrites.

 

[GodsGrace101]

The above side steps the true issue. Are we to be made into the likeness of Jesus and should we walk like Jesus?
As soon as one gets the reply, no this is impossible, you know the true divide is one of faith and belief.

The next layer down is does a believer ever truly know Holiness. Again if the answer is no, the divide is
one of faith and belief.

So if we say the way is our calling in Christ, and obeying it out of choice and perseverance is part of
salvation and sanctification that cannot be separated there again is a difference of faith and belief.

We would hold the legalism argument is invalid, as is the works salvation argument.
We all have to answer the question when does the imperfect become perfect and how.
I believe it starts at the cross and ends when we meet Him.

Denying sinful behaviour is sinful and breaks our relationship with God, causing a loss of faith,
is our biggest divide. We cannot join easy believism because it denies the realities of the walk,
of the relationship and of our objective. And our summary of this divide is condemnation of
obedience. It is represented by condemning the righteous as hypocrites.

This idea that obedience is out of choice (highlighted above by me)
And that we obey because we love...

What does that mean anyway?
Who here on this thread does not love God,,,except for a couple,, MAYBE who SEEM to not know our Lord and Savior.

No matter our love...no matter to what degree we love God at this very moment...
does NOT nullify the absolute requirement to OBEY HIM.

Isreal did not obey God....they didn't turn out so well.
All that crying and lamenting in Psalms.
And what condition is it in today?

Adam didn't obey God...
Look at the mess HE got us into.
He LOVED GOD...but he didn't obey.

Noah's neighbors didn't obey or love God..
they were destroyed.

The Israelites wanted to love God, but they couldn't obey Him...
they didn't make it to the promised land.

Sweet words are sweet....
but the fact is that God absolutely demands obedience.

No use to say we obey because we love....
STRAW MAN....
We all love Him here....

Why can we not agree on obedience???

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Impossible world views

If two people see the world differently when they describe it which would view are they using
and which use of language represents what is happening.

So accusing one group of lying is doing a diservice to their world view.
So calling someone a hypocrite when you believe they are a sinner denying their sin is valid.
Equally calling someone a condemner of the righteous when they are saying a righteous person
who is not sinning is a hypocrite and evil is also valid.

So in essence it is unresolvable, because the world views create their own assumptions.
The best one can do is ask how valid are the assumptions and do they reflect scripture.

If one calls the other liars, deceived, evil, doomed to hell this is not going to help.
There is also the true moral perspective of murder, which is fairly clear cut sin.

But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral,
those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the
fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death
Rev 21:8

To be an unrepentant murderer dooms one to Hell.
To then say you can be a murderer if God previously forgave the murder before
it happened and you do not have to care. This is the world of delusion and insanity.

But then some theological ideas do go this far and are this immoral.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

This idea that obedience is out of choice (highlighted above by me)
And that we obey because we love...

What does that mean anyway?
Who here on this thread does not love God,,,except for a couple,, MAYBE who SEEM to not know our Lord and Savior.

No matter our love...no matter to what degree we love God at this very moment...
does NOT nullify the absolute requirement to OBEY HIM.

Isreal did not obey God....they didn't turn out so well.
All that crying and lamenting in Psalms.
And what condition is it in today?

Adam didn't obey God...
Look at the mess HE got us into.
He LOVED GOD...but he didn't obey.

Noah's neighbors didn't obey or love God..
they were destroyed.

The Israelites wanted to love God, but they couldn't obey Him...
they didn't make it to the promised land.

Sweet words are sweet....
but the fact is that God absolutely demands obedience.

No use to say we obey because we love....
STRAW MAN....
We all love Him here....

Why can we not agree on obedience???

Why can we not agree on obedience???
Because then you would lose your salvation if you did not obey, opppssss.

It is why I love the passage in Ezekiel 18:26

If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin, he will die for it; because of the sin he has committed he will die.

It is clear cut, no compromises with sin.

 

[dcontroversal]

Amazing how many quote Hebrews 10 without context and with a skewed view to prove points that it does not prove...we had a saying for this corrupt view...called hanging a scripture on a personal skewed view to prove a false satanic point...

 

[GodsGrace101]

Why can we not agree on obedience???
Because then you would lose your salvation if you did not obey, opppssss.

It is why I love the passage in Ezekiel 18:26

If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin, he will die for it; because of the sin he has committed he will die.

It is clear cut, no compromises with sin.

Amen to that!

No need to be worried about becoming lost if we know we're obeying....
So I see your point....

If someone believes in OSAS...they never have to worry about obedience even though God demands it!

I think of Paschal's Wager again here.
What if THEY are wrong!!

IF we're wrong,,,it won't matter; we did what we had to do and was required by God.
IF they're wrong and God really does require obedience....uh oh.

!!

Good Night.
Late here.
Might be back later on.

 

[dcontroversal]

this is too much. my brain is about to explode.

the guy who refuses to recognize the actual definition of the word sin just wrote an essay about watering down sin.

I think we have the most un-self aware person on the planet.

I have to put you on ignore. I can't take this personal trip through your thoughts and emotions anymore.

good luck with your personal psychology exam.

Hahhahahhaha Amen to that.....blathering on in oblivion is a good way to describe it...ole Petey......blah, blah, blah.......

 

[dcontroversal]

HEY! Thats dcon's line!

No matter.....she copied Cain's path as well.....<--a working for, self saving dogma interwoven with the modern twist of Catholicism.........Jesus needs her help...he is too weak or inept to keep anyone saved...

 

[GodsGrace101]

Amazing how many quote Hebrews 10 without context and with a skewed view to prove points that it does not prove...we had a saying for this corrupt view...called hanging a scripture on a personal skewed view to prove a false satanic point...

Oh yeah.
You know ALL ABOUT that.

Which scripture in Hebrews 10 would you like to discuss?

Oh. Excuse me...you don't discuss scripture.
At least not with a SINNER like me...

You perfect persons, being perfect in Christ just won't talk to us lowly folk who just have never read the bible and just don't understand anything....

What time is it there in Aussie land?
Good Morning
Good Afternoon
Good Night

 

[GodsGrace101]

this is too much. my brain is about to explode.

the guy who refuses to recognize the actual definition of the word sin just wrote an essay about watering down sin.

I think we have the most un-self aware person on the planet.

I have to put you on ignore. I can't take this personal trip through your thoughts and emotions anymore.

good luck with your personal psychology exam.

Ummmm,,,I think your brain,,,,Ummmm,,,,already,,,,,Ummmmm........

Can't finish the sentence.
I don't want to be a sinner.

 

[GodsGrace101]

No matter.....she copied Cain's path as well.....<--a working for, self saving dogma interwoven with the modern twist of Catholicism.........Jesus needs her help...he is too weak or inept to keep anyone saved...

Hey!
Cain was a lot closer to God than some here are.
God said He would protect him...
he might even be saved !!!

Who can know?

 

[GodsGrace101]

Hahhahahhaha Amen to that.....blathering on in oblivion is a good way to describe it...ole Petey......blah, blah, blah.......

Gee!!!
You don't treat ANYBODY as badly as you treat me!!!
Not even this "Petey" guy!

Wonder why?
LOL

You funny.

 

[dcontroversal]

Oh?

No pride here. You think you are all that?

Lets see

John 3: 16 (belief)

John 4: 14 (Drink spiritual water)

John 6: 27, 35, 37-40, 50-51, 54-58 (eat food, bread, drink flesh and eat blood (the word))

Acts 2: 21 9 (call out on name of Jesus)

Acts 16: 31. (Call out on name of Jesus)

Romans 5: 9 - 10 (By Blood)

Romans 10: 9, 13 (Confess and Believe Jesus)

Eph 1: 13 - 14 (after hearing word (gospel) Believe)

Eph 2: 5 - 10 (Faith alone)

2 Tim 1: 9 (Not by works, but by grace)

Titus 3: 5 (Not by good deeds but by Gods mercy)


These are the ones I can think of off the top of my head. Go ahead and refute those passages, all of which make it clear HOW WE ARE SAVED! I am sure I can find many more

Amen......

Thy faith has saved thee, go in peace

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe

Hundreds of verses in context and not one teaches a self maintained salvation that is kept or lost by works of any flavor...

 

[dcontroversal]

Hey!
Cain was a lot closer to God than some here are.
God said He would protect him...
he might even be saved !!!

Who can know?

That is ignorant....Cain was lost, was the first false teacher and makes Jude as such....He peddled the same drivel you peddle....works

 

[dcontroversal]

Gee!!!
You don't treat ANYBODY as badly as you treat me!!!
Not even this "Petey" guy!

Wonder why?
LOL

You funny.

Fran.......I like you, but I absolutely despise......

a. Your false gospel
b. Your lack of honesty
c. Your lack of integrity
d. The way you twist, embellish and deny scripture, context and the very definition of words

You peddle self righteousness and obedience while being as disobedient as they come......ZERO HONESTY........

 

[GodsGrace101]

That is ignorant....Cain was lost, was the first false teacher and makes Jude as such....He peddled the same drivel you peddle....works

Works are not drivel young man.
They are what is needed for sanctification.

GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT.
END OF STORY.

 

[dcontroversal]

how about this- I will repent of a sin right now.

you are new, so I will tell you- a few weeks ago I declared that I would not interact with any who were just here to argue and stir up trouble.

I have since stated doing so again. so , I broke my word and told a lie.

now, I will repent from my broken word here, and reaffirm that statement.

i am adding you to my ignore list.

you think in some way that it is a sin not to get married?

that is the dumbist thing i ever heard a so-called " Christian ". say.

buy.

Jesus helped me quit drugs in 1989-90.......would that count.....IF i was a worker for I would say it was all me.....I did it.......but I know it was Christ in me.....he strengthened me and gets all the glory