Amen! You seem to agree that works do not "initially" save us, but in post #81,275, you said that you
push a "works plus grace gospel" to "maintain" your salvation. -
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/not-by-works.146296/page-4064 That is problematic! Salvation "maintained" by works is "type 2 works salvation."
In post #86,537, you stated Jesus sets conditions on our salvation then went on to say it is
NOT a gift, but a prize we get at the end. You also said we can say we have it now....but we
cannot claim it till we have earned it. *That is also problematic! -
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/not-by-works.146296/page-4327#post-3853939 Salvation is a gift that we freely accept (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8,9) and not a prize that we earn based on the merits of our performance.
Of course we are supposed to obey God. When did I say that we are not supposed to obey God? Why would I need to reply to that long list of verses you posted? I don't have a problem with those verses you posted and none of them teach salvation by works. I could add a couple more verses off the top of my head to your list:
Matthew 5:16 - Let your light so shine before men,
that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.
Titus 3:8 - The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to
devote themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for people.
If you believe that one or more of those verses in your list does teach salvation either "obtained" or "maintained" by works, then we could go over them one at a time. You already stated in this post that works do not save, although when compared to other statements you made in other posts it comes across as sugar coated double talk.
Jesus died for our sins according to the scriptures, was buried, and rose again the third day according to the scriptures. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) His FINISHED WORK OF REDEMPTION is sufficient and complete to save believers. It's up to us to receive Him through faith/believe the gospel. That is how we obtain salvation. The Christian life is not about getting saved then doing nothing and it's also not about doing something to help Jesus save us either.
Ongoing sanctification has no bearing on justification. That is, even if we don't reach entire sanctification/sinless perfection in this lifetime (which we won't) we are still justified by faith in Christ (Romans 5:1)
Hebrews 12:14 - Follow peace with all men, and
holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord. I often hear works-salvationists quote this translation of the Bible in their effort to teach that "in addition" to placing our faith in Jesus Christ, we must also be "holy enough" in of ourselves if we expect to see the Lord -- works salvation. Yet that is not what Paul is teaching. The NASB (as you quoted from) reads - Pursue peace with all men, and the
sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.
To be "sanctified" is to be
"set apart, made holy." Without justification, there is no sanctification. Those who have been justified by faith are also
sanctified/set apart/made holy before God
positionally in Christ. 1 Corinthians 6:11 - Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were
sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
Yet we also have progressive or ongoing sanctification in which the reality of that holiness becomes more and more evident in our actions, words, thoughts, attitudes, and motives. 1 Thessalonians 4:3-4, - For this is the will of God, your
sanctification: that you should abstain (present tense) from sexual immorality; that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor. So becoming washed, sanctified and justified in Christ is a one time event, yet abstaining from sexual immorality is not a one time event. The
believer possess a positional, judicial standing of righteousness in Christ and, second, a remaining need for
practical, progressive holiness, in regards to our
ongoing sanctification in respect to spiritual growth towards maturity in Christ.
End of part 1.
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