Not By Works

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GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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I made no mention of your personal life. I simply pointed out the difference between your view and mine.

You still believe salvation can be lost right?
What do you mean do I still believe salvation can be lost?
I've been a Christian more than 40 years and have believed this all along.
It's what the N.T. teaches whether or not we care to accept it.

As I've stated....I believe in eternal security.
But it has conditions. All of which are extremely easy to accept...

I leave you with this:
Love casts out all fear.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
You pointed out WHY I obey God.
You don't KNOW why I obey God...
You can only now what I say on these threads...and I don't speak about myself personally.
You have stated over and over again because He "commands" it.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
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You have stated over and over again because He "commands" it.
Yes. God DOES command obedience.
From the days of Adam and Eve.

So is one saved because he obeys God....
Or does he obey God because he is saved?
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,572
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It's all over this thread. The deception is very obvious

Paul was worried that some of them may be deceived just like eve was deceived.

...But I AM AFRAID that just as Eve was DECEIVED by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be LED ASTRAY from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 2 Corinthians 11:3

The truth is that the deceiver has been deceiving from the beginning until now.

These deceivers will REJECT and NULLIFY the Word and believe the deceiving spirits.(Isaiah 5:20-24, Mark 7:6-13)

...while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 2 Timothy 3:13

...THE SPIRIT CLEARLY SAYS that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through HYPOCRITICAL LIARS, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 1 Timothy 4:1-2

How would we know who were the ones that were deceived?

We know that Eve was deceived when she believed the deceiver and disobeyed God's command.

Who are the deceivers and who were deceived?

..But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. Matthew 24:10‭-‬14‭, ‬24

...For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. 2 Corinthians 11:13‭-‬15

And those that were deceived believed in the deceivers mentioned above and disobeyed God's commands because they were made to believe that they would not surely die, IOW, "always saved". But scriptures warn us not to be deceived;

...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians 5:6‭-‬7

...Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ” “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”... Genesis 3:1‭-‬19

Just think what could have happened if Eve did not believe the serpents deception but OBEYED God instead. ...NO NEED TO DISCUSS SALVATION FOR SURE because no one needs to be saved.

The truth is that Adam and Eve were created according to the image of God's righteousness and holiness and they BELIEVE and OBEY God until they got DECEIVED and disobeyed God. If they were deceived, why can't you?

Did God warn us about the deception? If He did, then why refuse to take heed of them?

So who would say now that OBEDIENCE TO GOD HAS NO BEARING IN SALVATION?

Oh I think WE'RE taking heed to deceptions all right!
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
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Thank you, you obviously have more patience than me at this moment to find and post them!! :):)

Not exactly, I put him on my IGNORE LIST A LONG TIME AGO, and forgot I had DELETE COOKIES CHECKED, last night on my History Eraser, which means NO COOKIES when I rejoin to day. So it pulls everybody up again, and My eyes landed on his RIDICULOUS post. And with my WORDsearch Bible Software it was easy to look those up. Just searched for verses with fell AND worshipped, and I pulled up most of them.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
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Wrong again.
You obey God from compulsion, for fear you will loose salvation.
If an action is for gain, then it is not free and it is not of love!
You cannot have it both ways.
Obedience is about knowing what is good, not because God is telling us to do it.
How is it you seem to be saying the perfect law, the Holy and righteous concepts and precepts are something
we find hard to do? Which ones are hard? Which ones are like a cruel obligation?

Worship God alone - The Lord is our King
No graven images - No creation of other gods to worship
Do not missuse Gods name - Honouring our calling of God for help
Honour the Sabbath - Keeping the rest the Lord has given us in Jesus
Honout your parents - Showing respect to that which has brought us into life
Do not murder - Not killing people
Do not steal - Not stealing from people
Do not commit adultery - Not participating in sexual immorality
Do not covert - Not desiring things we do not have
Do not bear false witness - Not miss representing others

None of the above is difficult to follow. None of the above is wrong or evil, as if we have to sacrifice
something amazingly needed to have to fulfil any step.

So compulsion is not the issue, loving truth and reality is. So there is no fear here.

Our fear is upsetting the Lord, and missing pleasing Him over something our hearts miss-understand
or overlook, which we know will cause us distress.

I have found nothing the Lord has asked me to do, I do not when I see it, am not 100% in agreement
with. My fear is simply I will not see it because I have not been dilgent enough to ask, or listen or
percieve His next step. Do you not know how glorious His plans and steps are?
I have seen His blessing, and I just want more, much much more.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
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GodsGrace101 said:

Could you please post some scripture that says we are to fall at Jesus feet instead of being transformed into His likeness?



Matthew 2:11 (KJV)
11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped Him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.

Job 1:20 (ASV)
20 Then Job arose, and rent his robe, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped;


2 Chronicles 29:27-29 (NJB)

27 Hezekiah ordered the burnt offering to be presented on the altar. And as the burnt offering began, the hymns of Yahweh began too, and the trumpets sounded, to the accompaniment of the instruments of David king of Israel,
28 while the whole congregation worshipped, the singers singing and the trumpeters sounding the trumpets, continuously until the burnt offering was over.
29 When the burnt offering was finished, the king and all those present with him fell to their knees and worshipped.

Mark 5:33-34 (NIV)
33 Then the woman, knowing what had happened to her, came and fell at his feet and, trembling with fear, told him the whole truth.
34 He said to her, "Daughter, your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be freed from your suffering."

Mark 5:5-8 (KJV)
5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.
6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.

Revelation 5:13-14 (ASV)
13 And every created thing which is in the heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and on the sea, and all things are in them, heard I saying, Unto him that sitteth on the throne, and unto the Lamb, be the blessing, and the honor, and the glory, and the dominion, for ever and ever.
14 And the four living creatures said, Amen. And the elders fell down and worshipped.

Revelation 7:11 (ASV)
11 And all the angels were standing round about the throne, and about the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

Revelation 11:16 (ASV)
16 And the four and twenty elders, who sit before God on their thrones, fell upon their faces and worshipped God,

Revelation 19:4 (ASV)
4 And the four and twenty elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshipped God that sitteth on the throne, saying, Amen; Hallelujah.

Judith 6:18-19 (NJB)
18 At this the people fell to the ground and worshipped God.
19 ‘Lord God of heaven,' they cried, ‘take notice of their arrogance and have pity on the humiliation of our race. Look kindly today on those who are consecrated to you.'


So now you have decided it is beneath your dignity or you are too proud, to fall down and worship GOD.


AMAZING.


Speaking from my heart, I fall before His throne each and every day, knowing He is the Lord,
the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, and His desire is that I might become like His Son,
and walk and think and do His will on earth as it is in heaven.

So much so God through the cross has empowered me to be transformed into the likeness
of His Son because of the work of the Holy Spirit, dwelling in His word and walking in His ways.
Amen

Some hold the flesh is too sinful to ever reflect the likeness of Jesus

And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit
2 Corinthians 3:18
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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Yes. God DOES command obedience.
From the days of Adam and Eve.

So is one saved because he obeys God....
Or does he obey God because he is saved?
Fran, you could not obey the authority of "Christianchat.com", when you were banned, so that you are not qualified to tell anyone about the bible let alone talk to us about "obedience to God." -- right?
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Oh I think WE'RE taking heed to deceptions all right!
Yes indeed, tt is very interesting, how sometimes they put the deception right out in the open, but when the deception is exposed and derided they retreat to a supposed more agreeable ground, all the while trying to straddle two opposing doctrines!

It is quite a little game, very disturbing.....and so painfully obvious!!
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Fran, you could not obey the authority of "Christianchat.com", when you were banned, so that you are not qualified to tell anyone about the bible let alone talk to us about "obedience to God." -- right?
Thank you!!!
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
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God says we are not to fear or be dismayed , fear is not healthy , it leads us to a petrified sate...
We must put our trust in the LORD , fear is from the evil one...xox...
Dear sister,

Fear is one word to talk about many issues.
Fear as in respect, knowing the danger and our limits before God is called wise.
Fear as in knowing salvation and forgiveness is a work of grace and we fall on the mercy of God is reality.
Fear of death is defeat of faith, because Jesus through the cross has saved us and brought us to the kingdom.

Panic attacks are not good, ptsd trauma, stops us working. Memories that cause us to wimper is not good.
I did wake up once wimpering. I never fully knew why, sometimes things get too much.

These things require healing by the Lord, building of boldness, comfort, being held in His embrace.

The enemy tries to intimidate us, to which we can be scared if the threat is real.
But our response this is the shield of faith, the breastplate of righteousness and the sword of the Spirit.

Trauma from our pasts, is something I know little of, and how the Lord can work good through His Spirit
to find release and built a new way in our hearts, but I have heard testimonies of such things.

So I will always know my place and my debt, and never be presumptious or conceited which is the road
if you ignore or reject that fear has a place to remind us we need to care. God bless you

ps some have lost their care and presume to condemn that which a work of the Lord and bring themselves
under judgement by so doing. I have learnt we have to be very careful to presume to know until He has
spoken clearly to our hearts and confirmed it through His word.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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when you get finished lecturing on command keeping, maybe you could try to pull up some honesty and say that John, in the same letter you quote verbatim , said the commands are to believe in the name of the Son and love one another.

so, to believe and love is to keep the commands. if you care about what John said. all of it, not just your cherry picked talking points.

Please. No more opinions.


Just quote scripture
 
Oct 31, 2015
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Nice try. But being here, conversing with people, discussing the Bible, is the OPPOSITE of keeping away. The post was directed specifically at the originator of this thread.

So not only has FollowHisSteps, and anyone else accusing him and others of being these people;
"I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. KEEP AWAY FROM THEM.
For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people."
Rom 16:17-18

But he, and perhaps you, not only refuse to KEEP AWAY FROM THEM, but actually seek them out to cause division and strife. So WHO really does that verse apply to?

Did Paul write to and warn against immortality without actually being present among those who he wrote to?




JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
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Keep thinking you keep his commandments.....that in and of itself breaks the one about lying........are you more spiritual than Paul.....nope.....read about his life.......all you are....a Johnny come lately Pharisee with a modern religious twist!!
So now obeying Christ is being a Pharisee?


You are getting desperate.




JPT
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
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Fran, you could not obey the authority of "Christianchat.com", when you were banned, so that you are not qualified to tell anyone about the bible let alone talk to us about "obedience to God." -- right?
None of us defy any authority. If you want to report anyone to the administrators, use the report button.
This is their site to administer as they deem fit. Are you defining what should and should not be done,
and how to exercise control?

Or is there something else, where rather than have good debate and discussion about theology you would
rather censor who can speak and who to exclude?

Is your heart full of forgiveness, reconciliation and compassion or something else?
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
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Keep thinking you keep his commandments.....that in and of itself breaks the one about lying........are you more spiritual than Paul.....nope.....read about his life.......all you are....a Johnny come lately Pharisee with a modern religious twist!!
I am interested. I have read posts claiming lies etc.
Are we in a primary school or are you able to have an adult discussion about interpretation?

I know sometimes it is very hard to admit one is inconsistent and things do not add up.
And sometimes reading what has been written is too upsetting. This is very odd but does happen.

On the other hand, clarity, knowing the power of the Holy Spirit anointing is very liberating, and
a pure joy.

So my friend, opposing God, and using insults will get anyone who does this no where.
I have seen people fold because in the end the emotional truth will always break through or
sanity leaves the individual. So I counsel all to let their yes be yes and their no be no,
anything else is from the evil one.
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
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...Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” These men are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage. A Call to Persevere But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit. Jude 1:14-19

Going back to verse 4 of this chaprer we will see who these things are referred to, the people who DIVIDE you by saying that FAITH ALONE saves even though James clearly said that it is not by FAITH ALONE(James 2:24) and Jesus with all the apostles who heard and preached OBEDIENCE as He instructed them to do (Matthew 28:18-20).

...For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, WHO CHANGE THE GRACE OF GOD INTO A LICENSE FOR IMMORALITY and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. Jude 1:4

Who are those who change the grace of God into a license for immorality? They are the ones WHO DIVIDE YOU, who do not have the Spirit because if they do, the Spirit will surely lead them to desire to OBEY GOD.
Yes indeed, tt is very interesting, how sometimes they put the deception right out in the open, but when the deception is exposed and derided they retreat to a supposed more agreeable ground, all the while trying to straddle two opposing doctrines!

It is quite a little game, very disturbing.....and so painfully obvious!!
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
Yes indeed, tt is very interesting, how sometimes they put the deception right out in the open, but when the deception is exposed and derided they retreat to a supposed more agreeable ground, all the while trying to straddle two opposing doctrines!

It is quite a little game, very disturbing.....and so painfully obvious!!
Which two doctrines?
Is this eternal life and believing God can transform us into His likeness?

I am amused at the idea that God transforming us into His likeness is heresy, because if God does not transform
us we will never have the problem of arriving and claiming we are like the Lord.

And if we are not transformed we are doomed to the lake of fire, because sinners will not enter heaven.