New bibles since 1960
- Thread starter preston39
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Thanks. The small amount of knowledge I have is mostly from reading things online. Its odd really, I always hated education and still do, but I love doing it on my own time, self-learning kind of deal with no exams or tests or nobody breathing on my neck
Im a weird cat like that. I like to read up on different cities, countries, geography, history, bible related things. Im so boring I even enjoy reading the climate part of wikipedia for each city and comparing them.
English I learned by reading subtitles and listening to what the people were saying. Singing english hymns also helped, and meeting english speaking Christians from Kenya and other places who would do bible studies from the king jimmy.
Tourist do you also feel that one great thing about the KJV is that it DOES sound different from day to day speech?
Im a weird cat like that. I like to read up on different cities, countries, geography, history, bible related things. Im so boring I even enjoy reading the climate part of wikipedia for each city and comparing them.
English I learned by reading subtitles and listening to what the people were saying. Singing english hymns also helped, and meeting english speaking Christians from Kenya and other places who would do bible studies from the king jimmy.
Tourist do you also feel that one great thing about the KJV is that it DOES sound different from day to day speech?
-
1
- Show all
Again, Hevosmies, what is your learning style? You claim to know and understand easily, but I bet if you were questioned, you would not have a lot of answers, for many weird word useages, or grammar. In fact, I think being uneducated (your words from another post, not mine!) is probably a benefit when reading the KJV. You don't think so much about the grammar, the aspect of the verb, let alone the fact that there are probably words you don't know, because you are not a native language speaker, which even I get! All the unknown words, those that are modern and those that archaic and obsolete, just kind of blend in, because you expect not to know words, because English is not your first language. My read through of the update Martin Luther bible, requires me to have a dictionary in one hand, because we did not learn any religious words in my German class. But, sometimes, because I know what the verse is in English, I don't have to look it up, because I remember the word. You may well remember Finnish words, and substitute them in. If that is fair, which I do not think it is. Not for me, either!
Besides, for me, the grammar is so necessary. Do you look at the grammar? Or just gist of the passage? I'm not putting you down here. Just don't go all KJV Only on me. Read what works, but remember, English is your second language. Just like 16th century English is about a 5th language for me, which I have never studied. I need accuracy, not a bunch of words and grammar that literally doesn't exist anymore.
-
1
- Show all
Bad news! Subtitles are rarely right! When I watch French or German or sometimes even Spanish, with English subtitles, I spend half my time screaming at the TV about how they are wrong. But now, my mostly deaf husband watches English subtitles for English movies. He was complaining when he turns up the sound, the subtitles are not even correct from English to English.
But keep on with the self learning, I also think you speak modern English very well. I had no idea you were not native, till you told me!
-
1
- Show all
You know I love you and respect you a lot.
Here is a list https://carm.org/kjv-list-of-archaic-words-and-modern-equivalents
I do admit, some of those words I would have no idea what they were. Oddly enough, they are in the bible books ive read through MANY times from the KJV! How come I never ran across them? I can even quote many verses from the OT and NT verbatim from the KJV, yet some of those words i didnt even remember seeing
Thanks!
Here is a list https://carm.org/kjv-list-of-archaic-words-and-modern-equivalents
I do admit, some of those words I would have no idea what they were. Oddly enough, they are in the bible books ive read through MANY times from the KJV! How come I never ran across them? I can even quote many verses from the OT and NT verbatim from the KJV, yet some of those words i didnt even remember seeing
Thanks!
You should check out the website www.brandplucked.webs.com for a good defense of the KJV against attacks. He is a friend of a friend. The following is an example.
“I do not believe the Bible is supposed to be translated into contemporary street language. The English of the KJV was not written in "street language" even at that time.
According to Oxford University, and the PBS series 'The History of English':
William Shakespeare used a total vocabulary of just over 24,000 words. In 2003 16,000 of those words are "obsolete".
Edgar Allen Poe used a total vocabulary of under 18,000 words. In 2003 9,550 of those words are "obsolete".
The King James Bible contains a total vocabulary of just over 6,000 words. In 2003 approximately 8 of those words are "obsolete".
Look at the divine pattern through history. We believe the Hebrew Old Testament was inspired by God. Yet the Jewish people in Israel today do not speak in the same Hebrew as is found in their scriptures, but they understand it. Not one of them would even consider "updating" the Hebrew text.
Most Bible critics I meet tell us we need to "go to the Hebrew and the Greek" to find out what God really said. This is so ironic. If we find a few old "archaic words" in the King James Bible that are hard to understand, they recommend instead that we learn Hebrew and Greek! Now, that makes a lot of sense, doesn't it?
Besides this, all of the translators behind such versions as the NASB, NIV, ESV, Holman CSB believe the Hebrew texts have been corrupted or even lost in numerous places, so they reject these readings. Yet, even if we followed the Hebrew and Greek texts, we would then be learning hundreds and hundreds of "archaic words", because the Hebrew and Greek manuscripts do not read as do modern Greek and Hebrew!
The same is true of the Greek Orthodox church. The Greek New Testament is not written in the same Greek that is spoken today in Greece, yet they understand it. None of those who believe it to be God's words are clamoring for a modern, up to date, "comic book" version.
God knew beforehand that languages would change and I believe He intended that His word would be placed in a form of language that would be different from that spoken on the street. God's Book is not supposed to read like people on the street talk. It never did.”
“I do not believe the Bible is supposed to be translated into contemporary street language. The English of the KJV was not written in "street language" even at that time.
According to Oxford University, and the PBS series 'The History of English':
William Shakespeare used a total vocabulary of just over 24,000 words. In 2003 16,000 of those words are "obsolete".
Edgar Allen Poe used a total vocabulary of under 18,000 words. In 2003 9,550 of those words are "obsolete".
The King James Bible contains a total vocabulary of just over 6,000 words. In 2003 approximately 8 of those words are "obsolete".
Look at the divine pattern through history. We believe the Hebrew Old Testament was inspired by God. Yet the Jewish people in Israel today do not speak in the same Hebrew as is found in their scriptures, but they understand it. Not one of them would even consider "updating" the Hebrew text.
Most Bible critics I meet tell us we need to "go to the Hebrew and the Greek" to find out what God really said. This is so ironic. If we find a few old "archaic words" in the King James Bible that are hard to understand, they recommend instead that we learn Hebrew and Greek! Now, that makes a lot of sense, doesn't it?
Besides this, all of the translators behind such versions as the NASB, NIV, ESV, Holman CSB believe the Hebrew texts have been corrupted or even lost in numerous places, so they reject these readings. Yet, even if we followed the Hebrew and Greek texts, we would then be learning hundreds and hundreds of "archaic words", because the Hebrew and Greek manuscripts do not read as do modern Greek and Hebrew!
The same is true of the Greek Orthodox church. The Greek New Testament is not written in the same Greek that is spoken today in Greece, yet they understand it. None of those who believe it to be God's words are clamoring for a modern, up to date, "comic book" version.
God knew beforehand that languages would change and I believe He intended that His word would be placed in a form of language that would be different from that spoken on the street. God's Book is not supposed to read like people on the street talk. It never did.”
-
1
- Show all
Again, you are not reading word for word. You are just getting the gist of the verse or passage. Because, sometimes words like adjectives really just add a shade of meaning. Nouns and verbs are important, but you can pick up context from the rest of the sentence. I do it in English. Although since i started my degree, I am looking up all the words I have never heard of. (And I have a huge vocabulary!). My biggest mistake was writing definitions in the margins of books. That's ok, but I need to make my own dictionary, so I can look up words and see what I found before. C'est la vie, je pense!
Certainly most of us just ignore words we don't understand. But, you might also be missing out a lot, which is why it might be useful to put the verse into Biblegateway.com, and and compare them to other versions. I generally go straight to the original languages and Greek tools. I feel like I am a lot closer to the text written by the apostles and prophets, than a translation, which may not bring out the full meaning of the text.
Certainly most of us just ignore words we don't understand. But, you might also be missing out a lot, which is why it might be useful to put the verse into Biblegateway.com, and and compare them to other versions. I generally go straight to the original languages and Greek tools. I feel like I am a lot closer to the text written by the apostles and prophets, than a translation, which may not bring out the full meaning of the text.
-
1
- Show all
L
It's not a few thees and thous that have people rejecting king James for better translations. It's obsolete words and words that today mean something completely different.
accursed devoted, Josh 6:17, 18; 7:1, 11–13, 15; 22:20; 1 Chr 2:7. This one shocked me!
addicted devoted, 1 Cor 16:15. And this one, though more understandable, could also cause considerable confusion in the modern reader.
allow (1) approve, Luke 11:48; Rom 14:22; 1 Thess 2:4. (2) accept, Acts 24:15. (3) know, Rom 7:15. Just as with modern English, KJV terms can have two, three, or even more meanings. And all of them can be remote from our modern understandings.
amazement terror, 1 Pet 3:6. A much stronger and more negative meaning. We’ve sort of domesticated this word, haven’t we?
bowels (1) heart(s) (metaphorically, as the seat of emotion), Gen 43:30; 1 Kgs 3:26; Ps 109:18; Isa 16:11; 63:15; Jer 31:20; Lam 1:20; 2:11; Phlm 7, 12, 20. (2) compassion, Isa 63:15; Phil 1:8; 2:1; Col 3:12. (3) affections, 2 Cor 6:12. (4) anguish, Jer 4:19. (5) innermost self, Song 5:4. A difficult image for us to appreciate today; seems to derive from an ancient Hebrew understanding of the “guts” as the seat of compassionate emotion. The closest we have now is in phrases like “go with your gut” and “gut check,” which refers more to intuition than love.
bruit report, Jer 10:22; Nah 3:19. This is a fun archaism still used in the jocular “schoolboy English” of 20th-century British literature, often in the phrase “bruited about,” referring to a widely disseminated piece of gossip or other information; as in, “it was bruited about that the bishop kept a secret mistress.”
by and by immediately, Matt 13:21; Mark 6:25; Luke 17:7; 21:9. Today, “by and by” seems to have the opposite meaning—something that will happen eventually.
careful anxious, Luke 10:41; Phil 4:6. So, in the Sermon on the Mount, “Be careful for nothing” means, “don’t let anything make you full of care,” that is, “make you anxious.”
charity love, 1 Cor 8:1; 13:1–4, 8, 13; 14:1; 16:14; Col 3:14; 1 Thess 3:6; 2 Thess 1:3; 1 Tim 1:5; 2:15; 4:12; 2 Tim 2:22; 3:10; Titus 2:2; 1 Pet 4:8; 5:14; 2 Pet 1:7; 3 John 6; Jude 12; Rev 2:19.In other words, “charity” in the King James Version does not have the limited meaning it holds today, of giving something to someone less fortunate than yourself.
closet(s) private room(s), Joel 2:16; Matt 6:6; Luke 12:3. Hence the odd English term still used today, “prayer closet,” which has nothing to do with a clothes-closet.
conversation (1) way of life, 2 Cor 1:12; Gal 1:13; Eph 2:3; 4:22; Phil 1:27; 1 Tim 4:12; Heb 13:5, 7; Jas 3:13; 1 Pet 1:8; 2:12; 3:1, 2, 16; 2 Pet 2:7; 3:11. (2) life, 1 Pet 1:15. (3) in the way, Ps 37:14; 50:23. (4) citizenship, Phil 3:20. This is another 17th-century word whose modern meaning has taken, in the immortal words of Bugs Bunny, a significant “left turn at Albuquerque.”
discover(ed) (eth) (ing) (1) uncover(ed) (ing), Lev 20:18; Deut 22:30; 2 Sam 22:16; Ps 18:15; Isa 3:17; 57:8; Jer 13:26; Ezek 13:14; 16:57; 23:10, 18, 29; Hos 2:10; Nah 3:5; Hab 3:13. (2) reveal, Prov 18:2. (3) disclose(d), 1 Sam 14:8, 11. (4) strip, Ps 29:9. (5) removed, Isa 22:8. Five meanings, and not one of them “found,” the common modern meaning.
dragons (1) jackals, Job 30:29; Ps 44:19; Isa 13:22; 34:13; 35:7; 43:20; Jer 9:11; 10:22; 14:6; 49:33; 51:37; Mic 1:8; Mal 1:3. (2) sea monsters, Ps 148:7. I’d like to know how this first meaning relates to our meaning of “dragons” today: the wild dog doesn’t bear much resemblance to the mythical creature!
flagons cakes of raisins, Song 2:5. flagon(s) of wine cake(s) of raisins, 2 Sam 6:19; 1 Chr 16:3; Hos 3:1. Wow! Almost as bad a mix-up here as the one revealed in 2001 by Quranic scholar Christoph Luxemberg, who concluded that the “seventy virgins” promised in paradise to Muslim men martyred for their cause were actually, owing to an unfortunate misunderstanding, raisins. Imagine the disappointment.
Then there is the plain mistranslation, and the attempts to clarify that are actually just wrong. Such as Exodus 4;24 which actually translates.
Exodus 4:24 And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the LORD met him, and sought to kill him.
But King Jimmy puts the name of Moses in place of him. Which is obviously wrong. Because the previous and the following verses still matter; context matters.
Then the whole Easter thing which is so absurd I can't believe anyone would attempt to defend that mess. King James version is just a terrible translation.
accursed devoted, Josh 6:17, 18; 7:1, 11–13, 15; 22:20; 1 Chr 2:7. This one shocked me!
addicted devoted, 1 Cor 16:15. And this one, though more understandable, could also cause considerable confusion in the modern reader.
allow (1) approve, Luke 11:48; Rom 14:22; 1 Thess 2:4. (2) accept, Acts 24:15. (3) know, Rom 7:15. Just as with modern English, KJV terms can have two, three, or even more meanings. And all of them can be remote from our modern understandings.
amazement terror, 1 Pet 3:6. A much stronger and more negative meaning. We’ve sort of domesticated this word, haven’t we?
bowels (1) heart(s) (metaphorically, as the seat of emotion), Gen 43:30; 1 Kgs 3:26; Ps 109:18; Isa 16:11; 63:15; Jer 31:20; Lam 1:20; 2:11; Phlm 7, 12, 20. (2) compassion, Isa 63:15; Phil 1:8; 2:1; Col 3:12. (3) affections, 2 Cor 6:12. (4) anguish, Jer 4:19. (5) innermost self, Song 5:4. A difficult image for us to appreciate today; seems to derive from an ancient Hebrew understanding of the “guts” as the seat of compassionate emotion. The closest we have now is in phrases like “go with your gut” and “gut check,” which refers more to intuition than love.
bruit report, Jer 10:22; Nah 3:19. This is a fun archaism still used in the jocular “schoolboy English” of 20th-century British literature, often in the phrase “bruited about,” referring to a widely disseminated piece of gossip or other information; as in, “it was bruited about that the bishop kept a secret mistress.”
by and by immediately, Matt 13:21; Mark 6:25; Luke 17:7; 21:9. Today, “by and by” seems to have the opposite meaning—something that will happen eventually.
careful anxious, Luke 10:41; Phil 4:6. So, in the Sermon on the Mount, “Be careful for nothing” means, “don’t let anything make you full of care,” that is, “make you anxious.”
charity love, 1 Cor 8:1; 13:1–4, 8, 13; 14:1; 16:14; Col 3:14; 1 Thess 3:6; 2 Thess 1:3; 1 Tim 1:5; 2:15; 4:12; 2 Tim 2:22; 3:10; Titus 2:2; 1 Pet 4:8; 5:14; 2 Pet 1:7; 3 John 6; Jude 12; Rev 2:19.In other words, “charity” in the King James Version does not have the limited meaning it holds today, of giving something to someone less fortunate than yourself.
closet(s) private room(s), Joel 2:16; Matt 6:6; Luke 12:3. Hence the odd English term still used today, “prayer closet,” which has nothing to do with a clothes-closet.
conversation (1) way of life, 2 Cor 1:12; Gal 1:13; Eph 2:3; 4:22; Phil 1:27; 1 Tim 4:12; Heb 13:5, 7; Jas 3:13; 1 Pet 1:8; 2:12; 3:1, 2, 16; 2 Pet 2:7; 3:11. (2) life, 1 Pet 1:15. (3) in the way, Ps 37:14; 50:23. (4) citizenship, Phil 3:20. This is another 17th-century word whose modern meaning has taken, in the immortal words of Bugs Bunny, a significant “left turn at Albuquerque.”
discover(ed) (eth) (ing) (1) uncover(ed) (ing), Lev 20:18; Deut 22:30; 2 Sam 22:16; Ps 18:15; Isa 3:17; 57:8; Jer 13:26; Ezek 13:14; 16:57; 23:10, 18, 29; Hos 2:10; Nah 3:5; Hab 3:13. (2) reveal, Prov 18:2. (3) disclose(d), 1 Sam 14:8, 11. (4) strip, Ps 29:9. (5) removed, Isa 22:8. Five meanings, and not one of them “found,” the common modern meaning.
dragons (1) jackals, Job 30:29; Ps 44:19; Isa 13:22; 34:13; 35:7; 43:20; Jer 9:11; 10:22; 14:6; 49:33; 51:37; Mic 1:8; Mal 1:3. (2) sea monsters, Ps 148:7. I’d like to know how this first meaning relates to our meaning of “dragons” today: the wild dog doesn’t bear much resemblance to the mythical creature!
flagons cakes of raisins, Song 2:5. flagon(s) of wine cake(s) of raisins, 2 Sam 6:19; 1 Chr 16:3; Hos 3:1. Wow! Almost as bad a mix-up here as the one revealed in 2001 by Quranic scholar Christoph Luxemberg, who concluded that the “seventy virgins” promised in paradise to Muslim men martyred for their cause were actually, owing to an unfortunate misunderstanding, raisins. Imagine the disappointment.
Then there is the plain mistranslation, and the attempts to clarify that are actually just wrong. Such as Exodus 4;24 which actually translates.
Exodus 4:24 And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the LORD met him, and sought to kill him.
But King Jimmy puts the name of Moses in place of him. Which is obviously wrong. Because the previous and the following verses still matter; context matters.
Then the whole Easter thing which is so absurd I can't believe anyone would attempt to defend that mess. King James version is just a terrible translation.
-
1
- Show all
L
Now to address the smug rankor in this heap of hypocritical self righteousness
Because you have had time and opportunity to self educate doesn't mean everyone has.
Many of the people we are trying to reach are people who's lives are wrecked with sin, which means that for one reason or another they made some poor decisions in life, and neglecting education is very often one of the life wrecking bad decisions that people with sin wrecked lives make.
I don't care if I am witnessing to a young man that quit school and failed to get educated, my care is that he gets the gospel. More over an accurate one.
Because you have had time and opportunity to self educate doesn't mean everyone has.
Many of the people we are trying to reach are people who's lives are wrecked with sin, which means that for one reason or another they made some poor decisions in life, and neglecting education is very often one of the life wrecking bad decisions that people with sin wrecked lives make.
I don't care if I am witnessing to a young man that quit school and failed to get educated, my care is that he gets the gospel. More over an accurate one.
-
1
- Show all
Newer does NOT mean *better*. Quite the opposite when it comes to Bibles (or even consumer products). As to the meanings of the difficult words, why do you think we have concordances? The really archaic words are less than 2 dozen. "Thees" and "thous" are not archaic since several modern languages still have them, e.g. German.
-
1
- Show all