Not By Works

[FollowHisSteps]

Who am I?
Jesus is the Messiah come in the flesh, died on the cross for the forgiveness of our sins,
raised to life and sits at the right hand of the Father in heaven. I am redeemed by the cross
and follow my Lord walking in His ways and example.

I am a believer in Jesus, a christian, a brother to all who likewise believe and follow Jesus.
Now all who believe like this are His sheep and should be regarded as such.

Our teacher is Christ, through the Holy Spirit, using His word and His body the church.

It seems some want to claim, I can be stripped, judged, condemned and thrown out of the faith
if I do not agree with their version or emphasis outside of this core spiritual reality.

Praise God that in Him I have my being and my life, and no one can separate me from the love
I have in Christ Jesus. So just be encouraged, because what Jesus says matters above any man
or woman, any church or forum. And learn from Him because He is the way to Life.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hi Hevosmies, lots of memories come flooding back, on this thread there are several who have served and are serving our country in the Armed Forces. Personally I served in Vietnam from 1969-1970; US Army 4th Infantry Division, 4/42 Battalion, honorable discharge.

Currently I am fighting a different sort of battle that most friends on this thread understand. While serving in Vietnam I came in contact with Agent Orange, a toxic anti-foliage used as a tactical effort so that American Soldiers can see the enemy through the dense jungle.

As a result of coming in contact with agent orange I have developed prostate cancer. My wife and I were joyfully serving God in my wife's country of Thailand. Five years ago we returned to USA so that I could receive a more effective cancer treatment and so here we are serving God the best we can with my disability.

Anyone remember the P-38 military type can opener. Freeze dried long range patrol meals were introduce during that time. Previously our meals consisted WWII C-Rations that were opened with the trusty "P-38" can opener, heat on an open flame with C-4, and then consumed. Some favorites were, "beans and wienies" and canned peaches for desert.

P-38 can opener...

Amen bro, i have a nagging back thanks to the first gulf war. Even though i was not in theater. Thanks to an issue trying to make sure the saint marys river was safe (most of our steel comes through that river, and there was a threat.)

But i have nothing compaired to the sacrifice you gave, thank you bro and god bless.

 

[BillG]

Almost going to dinner...
But I'm not sure what you're asking.

First of all, what's a genuine believer?
To me a believer is a believer.

So you're asking if believers will be judged?
According to Jesus...yes.

I believe this because in every instance I posted above to Stone...
Jesus never spoke about believers...He spoke about works/deeds/doing good.

I don't know how to get this across...I know it's me...
It's a given that Jesus is talking about believers.

Those that do not believe are lost from the get-go.
The N.T. is always speaking to believers....
Jesus was trying to teach us the way to get to heaven...

He said we're to be born from above...
Then everything else He said had to do with doing good.

If you don't agree tell me why...

A genuine beliver is one who had placed their faith in Jesus.

Romans 10:8-13
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Now said persons who do the above and make him Lord will want to walk the way he has asked us to.

In fact I have refused to baptise 2 people. I always ask them about V9 and have they done this.

They said no, so I asked them if they were willing to.
Once again no. So I could not baptise them.

I am a bit confused as to why you ask me if I believe belivers will be judged.
I clearly said that in my post.

Yes our works will be judged.
As Paul states in Corinthians.

You say

Jesus never spoke about believers...He spoke about works/deeds/doing good.

So who are what in

John 5:29
29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Some go to ressurection and some to condemnation.

 

[BillG]

Almost going to dinner...
But I'm not sure what you're asking.

First of all, what's a genuine believer?
To me a believer is a believer.

So you're asking if believers will be judged?
According to Jesus...yes.

I believe this because in every instance I posted above to Stone...
Jesus never spoke about believers...He spoke about works/deeds/doing good.

I don't know how to get this across...I know it's me...
It's a given that Jesus is talking about believers.

Those that do not believe are lost from the get-go.
The N.T. is always speaking to believers....
Jesus was trying to teach us the way to get to heaven...

He said we're to be born from above...
Then everything else He said had to do with doing good.

If you don't agree tell me why...

In a sense to believe in Jesus is different to believe upon Jesus.

I have many friends who believe Jesus was a real person but are believers that he was a real person. That is where it stops.

 

[BillG]

Almost going to dinner...

What you cooking?

Tori and I have a selection of Indian cuisine.
We put it out in bowls.
Then we will tuck into it whilst watching Highway to Heaven.
Yum yum.

 

[Hevosmies]

Oh yeah!
I agree with you on that.
The exact words "you are going to hell" don't even have to be said.
It could be that I will be with the plentious (not from you)
or some other such words.
It should not even be hinted by a Christian that another Christian can go to hell, or however you want to word it.

People have asked me to post direct scripture and I did.
Did I get an apology?
No. Not even a confirmation.

So you expect me to go back pages and pages to find where you told me this?
You've told me plenty of mean things and have not treated my like a sister in Christ that disagrees with your doctrine. You've treated me as an enemy and tax gatherer and this is wrong.
You don't have to like me but why hate me? What exactly have I done to you?
Have I moved you from your comfort zone? YOU don't agree with ME...do I tell YOU you're going to hell, or any such words? No.

In fact I've stated MANY TIMES that our DOCTRINE does not save us...Jesus does.
Now @dcontroversal does believe doctrine saves us and he has put me with the plentious, in those words.

If doctrine is what saves us then we're all in trouble because if we all think "I am right" then NO ONE is right and all has been misunderstood.

God help us to come to know how much we're loved and that we are to feel secure in HIS ARMS and are to be PROUD to be Christian and to WANT to follow EVERY COMMAND of His the best we can, and when we cannot, that we have an advocate with the Father.

Well if someone says salvation is earned. I got to wonder!

 

[Argueless]

100% agree.......on all fronts we see the truth being assailed.....rank and file the enemy is deep and coming over the wall...and the bad thing.....just like left wing politicians that wish to coddle Islam.....many so called believers think we should coddle false teachers.......

View attachment 194839

Your erroneous doctrines and straw man arguments have already been refuted numerous times and you have already been shown the truth found in scripture that man is saved through faith and not by works and that obedience/works is the FRUIT of salvation but NOT THE ROOT of it, yet you insist on continuing to confuse DESCRIPTIVE passages of scripture with PRESCRIPTIVE passages of scripture and the end result is salvation by works.

You have also been shown the truth found in scripture that genuine believers (whose faith is firmly rooted and established) are eternally secure in Christ, yet you continue to see and believe only what you want to see and believe, so I really see no point in continuing to waste my time beating a dead horse.

Only the Lord can open your eyes to the truth and I sincerely hope and pray that one day you will accept the truth.

Did Jesus and His disciples teach that if they have WORKS that could move mountains but have no LOVE, they are NOTHING?

Did they ever teach DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD?

Do you not IMPLY or SUGGEST by saying that you are saved by FAITH ALONE that Jesus is a WORKS SALVATIONIST for teaching that we should obey the commandments if we want to ENTER LIFE, get ETERNAL LIFE or be IN HIM (see Matthew 19:16-30 & 1 John 2:3-6) in the same way that you call those who disagree with OSAS?

Where in scripture did the FATHER, THE SON and THE HOLY SPIRIT say that ONCE you are SAVED, you are ALWAYS SAVED? Kindly show us that we might be EDIFIED and not be DECEIVED by a FALSE TEACHING.

...If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is CONCEITED and UNDERSTANDS NOTHING. He has an unhealthy interest in CONTROVERSIES and QUARRELS ABOUT WORDS that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been ROBBED OF THE TRUTH and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. 1 Timothy 6:3-5

It's really amazing how these words were written to perfectly expose some people on this thread.

...For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account. Hebrews 4:12-13

... Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you. Revelation 3:3

 

[cv5]

SALVATION has Nothing to do with works, it happens the moment Genuine Faith comes in with the holy Spirit; in fact it is predestined according to this VERSE: 2 Tim. 1:9

AFTER SALVATION, We will find a LOVE INSIDE OF US, that is a GODLY LOVE, and therefore OBEDIENCE is part of our LOVE, and we cannot claim credit for it, is was POURED into our Hearts (human spirit) by the Holy Spirit, ROM. 5:5.

Agreed. My point is that obedience/works are based on a pre-existing faith that itself is based upon a Salvation foreordained before the founding of the world......

 

[BillG]

Highway to Heaven and Indian cuisine calling.
Will probably catch up tomorrow.

Much grace and love to you all.

Always remember.

God loves us as much as he loves Jesus.
Let's aspire to that love for each other.
By this we will know we are his disciples.

 

[Argueless]

Did Jesus and His disciples teach that if they have WORKS that could move mountains but have no LOVE, they are NOTHING?

Did they ever teach DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD?

Do you not IMPLY or SUGGEST by saying that you are saved by FAITH ALONE that Jesus is a WORKS SALVATIONIST for teaching that we should obey the commandments if we want to ENTER LIFE, get ETERNAL LIFE or be IN HIM (see Matthew 19:16-30 & 1 John 2:3-6) in the same way that you call those who disagree with OSAS?

Where in scripture did the FATHER, THE SON and THE HOLY SPIRIT say that ONCE you are SAVED, you are ALWAYS SAVED? Kindly show us that we might be EDIFIED and not be DECEIVED by a FALSE TEACHING.

...If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is CONCEITED and UNDERSTANDS NOTHING. He has an unhealthy interest in CONTROVERSIES and QUARRELS ABOUT WORDS that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been ROBBED OF THE TRUTH and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. 1 Timothy 6:3-5

It's really amazing how these words were written to perfectly expose some people on this thread.

...For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account. Hebrews 4:12-13

... Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you. Revelation 3:3

Why did Paul say "IF I HAVE A FAITH" and not "IF I HAVE WORKS"?

So a person can have a kind of FAITH that has no LOVE.... How can this kind of FAITH save a person who CLAIMS that FAITH ALONE saves and that ONCE you are SAVED by this FAITH ALONE, you will ALWAYS be SAVED?

GOD IS LOVE and LOVE is "to walk in OBEDIENCE to His commands.

How can a FAITH without God and without walking in OBEDIENCE to His commands save?

...THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS NOT A MATTER OF TALK BUT OF POWER.
1 Corinthians 4:20

...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians 5:6-7

 

[dcontroversal]

I never said i had a book called naomi, and would love for you to show were i did.

So your already assuming things which were never said.

Nor did you understand what i was saying.

I was trying to recall you saying that, and I honestly could not remember you saying you had the book.........I am getting the same feeling I got when NONEWSMAN first started posting...............like Honesty and a lack thereof

 

[GodsGrace101]

Truth talk........I wanted to say thank for your service to our country....sorry to hear about your cancer ....I will pray for you....it's because of heroes like you that we are able to serve the Lord in a free country.....and get on this website and talk about the word of God even though we disagree......thanks again

May GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!

Hi TT, I'm very sorry to hear of your latest battle.
I really didn't know and so many are coming to fight this battle.
You're in my prayers and may God keep you strong throughout all of it.

 

[dcontroversal]

Yeah thanks bro. I feel a lot less like a rat now!

Economy is tough in Europe!

A standing offer in Missouri if you ever find yourself on the ropes HAHAH

 

[Argueless]

...You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. You see that a person is justified by what he does and NOT BY FAITH ALONE. James 2:22-24

 

[dcontroversal]

eternally-gratefull did you serve in American military and what southern state are you from?

dcontroversal do you have any sermons on youtube? Do you got a southern accent? or are you born and raised in Missouri?

PS: I find it TROUBLING that the MREs they give American soldiers are better than anything I can cook! That Spaghetti+beef+chocolate milk+jelly+bread is QUITE GOOD!

Yeah I have a southern draw....HAH and yes EG did serve in the Military....My time was in Camp Pendleton as a Marine......not sure about You Tube.....did at one time...a friend put up a 10 part series I did on the daughter of Babylon......but have not looked in a long time......YES I like the MREs <--I always keep a few cases on hand jut in case HAHAH

 

[GodsGrace101]

A genuine beliver is one who had placed their faith in Jesus.

Romans 10:8-13
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Now said persons who do the above and make him Lord will want to walk the way he has asked us to.

In fact I have refused to baptise 2 people. I always ask them about V9 and have they done this.

They said no, so I asked them if they were willing to.
Once again no. So I could not baptise them.

I am a bit confused as to why you ask me if I believe belivers will be judged.
I clearly said that in my post.



You say

Well, Bill, I think we're on the same page and have always been.
The thing is that I do believe it's possible to abandon God and thus at that point, we would no longer be saved.

If life is in Jesus...then we need Jesus to have life...the Zoe kind of life.

I have no argument with you.

I explained the difference between OSAS, Eternal Life, and Preservation of the Saints.
I believe in Eternal Life. It has conditions...the condition is that we obey God.
That's it. Some want to call this "works"...I can't help that. I just know that God wants us to obey Him and I do my best.

OSAS means that after a person accepts Christ, even if they abandon Him and then move to a life of sin,,,OR accept Him and then do not obey Him because they'd rather sin....And STILL think they're saved...well, this I do not believe is correct by Jesus' teachings.

I don't know a better way to explain it.
I've posted many verses on obedience and doing good deeds.
I don't know why the push-back (as some call it).

 

[GodsGrace101]

What you cooking?

Tori and I have a selection of Indian cuisine.
We put it out in bowls.
Then we will tuck into it whilst watching Highway to Heaven.
Yum yum.

I loved Little House and Highway to Heaven.
I don't get it here but I bought the entire series of Little House.
Each episode said so much. Remeber when Little Laura went on the high mountain so she could be closer to God and He could hear her better? The moral lessons......the Christianity. I was so sorry when Landon died.

As to Indian cuisine. There's a great Indian restrnt near Trafalgar Square...can't remember the direction...but going toward the quieter area. There's an Italian restrnt across the street. The used white table clothes...very nice ambiance. The food was soooo good. Can't get that here. I'm so tired of Italian food. Tonight we were all together with my daughter's family and I made polenta with beef and sausage stew and Zuppa Inglese for desert. An English desert.

Wish I could get some real chinese, french, indian. My favorites.

 

[dcontroversal]

Hi Hevosmies, lots of memories come flooding back, on this thread there are several who have served and are serving our country in the Armed Forces. Personally I served in Vietnam from 1969-1970; US Army 4th Infantry Division, 4/42 Battalion, honorable discharge.

Currently I am fighting a different sort of battle that most friends on this thread understand. While serving in Vietnam I came in contact with Agent Orange, a toxic anti-foliage used as a tactical effort so that American Soldiers can see the enemy through the dense jungle.

As a result of coming in contact with agent orange I have developed prostate cancer. My wife and I were joyfully serving God in my wife's country of Thailand. Five years ago we returned to USA so that I could receive a more effective cancer treatment and so here we are serving God the best we can with my disability.

Anyone remember the P-38 military type can opener. Freeze dried long range patrol meals were introduce during that time. Previously our meals consisted WWII C-Rations that were opened with the trusty "P-38" can opener, heat on an open flame with C-4, and then consumed. Some favorites were, "beans and wienies" and canned peaches for desert.

P-38 can opener...

Keep swinging bro on the cancer and we will all pray for you.......I too was honorably discharged from the Marine Corp.....and I love the can opener....I have a handful of them and on occasion use one to clean my finger nails HAHAHAHHAHAHHH

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes our works will be judged.
As Paul states in Corinthians.
But I don't think genuine believers salvation will be judged.

I think you agree with that.
If not please let me know.

AMEN and the saved will go to the BEMA seat of Christ, while the lost will face the Great White Throne of GOD

 

[stonesoffire]

The Messianic Jews put the emphasis on ENTRUST, putting your whole TRUST in JESUS or what ever you say you believe in. Way different than the English word Believe.

I have mention this analogy before:

If two Jews walked up to a frozen over Lake in early winter, and JEW #1 said to JEW #2,
"Do you Believe the Ice is thick enough to walk on yet?"
And JEW #2 said, "YES, I do believe the Ice is thick enough." And then put one foot out to test the ICE.
JEW #1 would YELL, "LIAR, if you really BELIEVED it was THICK enough, you would have walked out there and put your whole weight on what you claimed to BELIEVE.

That is the definitive difference between what a JEW means by BELIEVE, and the much lesser meaning in ENGLISH. You do not put your WHOLE TRUST in JESUS FOR YOUR SALVATION, you are a LIAR.

Very good explanation VCO...never heard this before.