Not By Works

[mailmandan]

You were asked to show us scripture and here's his request;

"Please just post scripture that says we are “Justified by faith alone”...'

You won't find a verse in scripture that specifically says, "justified by faith alone" which does not negate the fact that you don't need to add the word "alone" next to "belief/faith" in multiple passages of scripture which state that we are saved through "belief/faith" in order to figure out that the words, "belief/faith" stand alone in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation, as I already explained in post #88,173.

Now here is my request for you: Please post scripture that says we are "justified by faith and works" or "saved by faith and works."

Take out the word "ALONE" in your twisted FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINE then you'll be able to see without bias the TRUTH OF THE MESSAGE.

You have a false man made doctrine of salvation by works. Therefore, having been "justified by faith.." (Romans 5:1) Faith plus what? Faith plus nothing. *Faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE. For by grace you have been "saved through faith.." Faith plus what? Faith plus nothing. *Faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE. Genuine believers who have placed their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ ALONE for salvation understand this. Works-salvationists (such as Roman Catholics and Mormons) don't understand this and make the same arguments that you are making, which is very telling. Your true colors are showing.

I have no false man made doctrine or bias. Salvation by faith and works is false man made doctrine (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) and so is salvation by an empty profession of faith/dead faith that "remains alone" -- barren of works (James 2:14-24). You fail to properly harmonize scripture with scripture in order to reach the proper conclusion on doctrine. Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24). *Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.* It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony*

Paul said,

...If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and IF I HAVE A FAITH that can move mountains, BUT HAVE NOT LOVE, I am NOTHING. 1 Corinthians 13:2

Do you even make sense if you are nothing? That is what you are and have become by insisting that FAITH ALONE SAVES.

Can that NOTHING even exist? I think that the ATHEISTS believe that but not Jesus and His apostles.

Here is another passage of scripture that gets misinterpreted by works-salvationists. If someone has genuine saving faith in Christ and has received the Holy Spirit, then it would be impossible for them to have NO love at all. 1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.

Paul uses hyperbole about understanding ALL mysteries and ALL knowledge and having faith that can move mountains yet having NO love to stress the importance of love and is not teaching salvation based on the merits of acts of love/charity as you suppose. Faith works through love (Galatians 5:6), but we are saved through faith, not faith plus love/acts of charity. We could never perform enough acts of love to earn our salvation, yet the point that Paul is making is that love is the greater quality of the three because God is love and it outlasts them all. Long after faith and hope are no longer necessary once we are in the presence of the Lord, love will still be the governing principle that controls everything that God and his saints are and do. We won't need faith and hope once we are present with the Lord. So Paul is stressing the importance of love, not teaching that faith in Christ is insufficient to save us apart from enough acts of love. All genuine BELIEVERS love Christ. Why? Because we have received the love of God in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us (Romans 5:5) when we believed the gospel (Ephesians 1:13). We love Him because He first loved us (1 John 4:19). Also, if we have saving faith in Christ, then we have hope. Hebrews 11:1 - Faith is the substance of things hoped for..

Jesus said;

... “If you love me, you will obey what I command. Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.” Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me. John 14:15,21,23-24

In John 14:15, Jesus said - If you love Me, you will "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) My commandments, which does not mean sinless, perfect obedience 100% of the time, as sinless perfectionists teach. So keeping (guarding, observing, watching over) His commandments is the demonstrative evidence of our love for Christ, but is not the basis or means by which we receive eternal life. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9). Works-salvationists have this backwards. Only genuine believers are described as those who obey His teaching.

...“Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? Luke 6:46

Seeking salvation by works is a good example of calling Jesus 'Lord, Lord" yet not doing what He says, as these many people in Matthew 7:21-23 will find out the hard way. I often hear works-salvationists quote passages of scripture about keeping commandments and obeying the Lord, then confidently and self righteously imply that they have sufficiently obeyed the Lord and will be saved based on the merits of their performance/works, then look down their noses at believers and imply that more than likely, they have not sufficiently obeyed the Lord and will not be saved, which reminds me of the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector in Luke 18:9-14.

A Faith WITH LOVE will OBEY.

Paul said;

...For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is FAITH EXPRESSING ITSELF THROUGH LOVE. Galatians 5:6

"FAITH THAT WORKETH IN LOVE"

Of course genuine faith results in obedience, yet we are saved through faith and not based on the merits of our obedience/works which follows. I already stated earlier in this post that "faith works through love" (Galatians 5:6)

 

[mailmandan]

John said;

...Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but WITH ACTIONS and in truth. 1 John 3:18

Amen! Only genuine believers properly love with actions. The actions of unbelievers is stained with sin and without faith it's impossible to please God.

Peter said;

...For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins. Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:5-11

Here is another passage of scripture that gets misinterpreted by works-salvationists. By cultivating the qualities listed in 2 Peter 1:5-7, Christians can be sure that God has called them and elected them. These fruits will confirm it. Make sure you have been called and elected. bébaios (an adjective, derived from bainō, "to walk where it is solid") – properly, solid (sure) enough to walk on; hence, firm, unshakable; (figuratively) absolutely dependable, giving guaranteed support (security, surety). Make sure that you are saved. To practice these qualities gives evidence of and assurance of salvation, though they are not the basis or means of salvation. They are the effect. Cause of being in Christ (FAITH) effect of being in Christ (FRUIT). For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ (vs. 8). For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins (vs. 9). What is the object of the forgetting? Is this forgetting temporary because this believer had fallen into error or does this lack of fruit exist because this person’s "cleansing" was merely an external reformation that did not come from a truly changed heart? The genuineness of their profession will be demonstrated as they express these virtues. These fruits confirm their divine source. Romans 8:30 says, And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; and those he justified, he also glorified. All of them. In Proverbs 24:16, we read - For a righteous man may fall seven times and rise again, But the wicked shall fall by calamity.

James said;

...You see that a person is justified by what he does and NOT BY FAITH ALONE. As the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD. James 2:24,26

James 2:14-26 is probably the mother of all passages of scripture that get misinterpreted by works-salvationists, which results in a perverted gospel of works salvation. Be sure to read post #808 from this link - https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...saved-always-saved.136509/page-41#post3374477

And again Paul said;

... WHAT IF SOME DID NOT HAVE FAITH? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness? Not at all! LET GOD BE TRUE, and every man A LIAR. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.” Romans 3:3-4

While John pointed out who the LIARS are;

...The man who says, “I know him,” but DOES NOT DO WHAT HE COMMANDS is A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. 1 John 2:4

God is faithful and John has certainly pointed out who the liars are. 1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (demonstrative evidence) if we "keep" (Greek word for "keep" is "tereo" - Strong's #5083) which means to (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. Those who teach sinless perfection misinterpret this passage of scripture to mean sinless, perfect obedience to all of His commandments 100% of the time. John has something to say about these liars in 1 John 1:8 - If we say that we have no sin (PRESENT TENSE), we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

And finally Paul warns us;

...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT. Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians 5:6-7

The DISOBEDIENT is descriptive of UNBELIEVERS. Ephesians 2:1 - And you He made alive, who were (PAST TENSE) dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked (PAST TENSE) according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now (PRESENT TENSE) works in the sons of disobedience, (unbelievers) 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

 

[PennEd]

Hi D...I heard a story from a preacher saying that a chinese lady had asked him
" So my mother is in hell because she did not die with Jesus as her Savior " he replied " Yes "
She said " Well in that case , I would rather be with my mother in hell , then be in heaven without her "....xox..

In my waaay too long party yrs, I was a big Doors fan. This talk about being with friends and loved ones in hell reminded me of "When the music's over" Unfortunately for so many, they find out too late that cancelling your subscription to the resurrection, and being sent to the house of detention, IN NO WAY is going mean you will be with your friends and loved ones who are also there.



“Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside"

 

[FollowHisSteps]

If we see a brother commit a sin, take him aside, if he continues in that sin, bring a witness, if he yet continues bring in to the whole church, if he fails to repent, after this, tell him not to return until he repents.

You people excusing sin of others which was ongoing and denied just shows what the problem is with much of the church

You go preach they we must strive to be perfect. But when your own sins are exposed, you ignore them, deny them, or blame shift, or like the new guy did, excuse his sin. And say he was joking.

News flash, God was not laughing.

I hope you can bear with me Eternally-gratefull.

You talk of a brother committing a sin. Which sin do you believe this brother committed?
I have not the time to hunt through issues, but am concerned on a forum, where people express opinions
and points of view, sin is being committed?

A few days ago someone said another lied about what they had said and claimed they had never said this.
I have seen this type of thing happen and both parties as far as they remember are right.

I am sure I have been guilty of this myself, because when passionate I can say things I later regret.
Jesus lays on my heart forgiveness and mercy. So often I see the righteous judge can rise up and condemn
or the forgiving man of grace who brings peace and can show compassion. So which would Jesus do?

Jesus says something also strange to me. If you brother repents, forgive them. It implies in part without
a repentant heart there is no forgiveness. I am a little unsure about this, and always side on the side of
grace, compassion and mercy.

Do you agree? Are we fighting to be right or to be like Jesus?

 

[mailmandan]

The scripture was completed and his righteous was fulfilled when he actually obeyed God by offering his son Isaac on the altar.

• And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”

Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
James 2:21-26

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.

In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It does not mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works will be evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the "sense" in which God was "justified,." He was shown to be righteous.

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

In James 2:25, Rahab believed in the Lord with authentic faith (Joshua 2:9-13), requested "kindness" (2:12), received the promise of kindness (2:14), and hung out the "scarlet line" (2:21), as the demonstration of her authentic faith. She showed that her faith in God was not a dead faith by her works, just as all genuine believers show theirs.

In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body emits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works (Ephesians 2:5-10).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I hope you can bear with me Eternally-gratefull.

You talk of a brother committing a sin. Which sin do you believe this brother committed?
I have not the time to hunt through issues, but am concerned on a forum, where people express opinions
and points of view, sin is being committed?

A few days ago someone said another lied about what they had said and claimed they had never said this.
I have seen this type of thing happen and both parties as far as they remember are right.

I am sure I have been guilty of this myself, because when passionate I can say things I later regret.
Jesus lays on my heart forgiveness and mercy. So often I see the righteous judge can rise up and condemn
or the forgiving man of grace who brings peace and can show compassion. So which would Jesus do?

Jesus says something also strange to me. If you brother repents, forgive them. It implies in part without
a repentant heart there is no forgiveness. I am a little unsure about this, and always side on the side of
grace, compassion and mercy.

Do you agree? Are we fighting to be right or to be like Jesus?

Ok, one example, tell me, is this sin?

1. Man asks lady question.

2. Lady answers man

3. Man states lady did not answer, i assume because he did not like the answer she gave. But i could be wrong, either way, he lied

4. Lady gives man red x,

5. man attacks lady, and claims she gave him a red x because she could not answer. (Lie number 2, not to mention his pride in his attack on her giving him a read x. Pride is sin is it not?)

So, are these things sin, or as you claim misunderstandings?

 

[FollowHisSteps]

So let me get this straight. You join the site like 5 minutes ago, read back 10+ pages of a thread of 90,000 posts you randomly chose, give an explanation as if you are intimately familiar with all the moving parts, and then think the whole exercise is funny?

Are you REALLY a pastor? Cause something doesn't pass the smell test here.

Small point about reading. What was written was "I remember our pastor.... "

And the member being talked about was obviously hurt. He actually believed he was talking to loving bible
believing christians who knew how to handle the word of God and love those who contributed.

I remember feeling the same way going to my local church, rejoicing in Christ expecting a good reception.
The Lord laid on my heart, these people, redeemed sinners, were sent to test my love, mercy and forgiveness,
and so so so often I failed. It has taken me a very long time to see Jesus forgave His disciples continuously,
and it took them 3 years to see He was the Son of God. Now that is patience, and love and forgiveness.

This sounds like I am so right. I am just like all redeemed sinners still learning, but when I am hurt, I can easily
turn nasty. I am trying to learn the way of the cross, and let the pain be real, and then bear it. Not easy to do.

Peter even told Jesus he would never have to die. I love Peter, because he is so like me, jumping to the wrong
conclusions, and even in Christs rebuke there was love.

Thank you Jesus for your patience to us, may we walk in your foot steps, Amen

Do you ever want to just burst into song to praise our Lord and Saviour? I do, for He is bigger than my wildest
dreams or my human expectations. He blows my mind, every time He opens up the word to me.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Ok, one example, tell me, is this sin?
1. Man asks lady question.
2. Lady answers man
3. Man states lady did not answer, i assume because he did not like the answer she gave. But i could be wrong, either way, he lied
4. Lady gives man red x,
5. man attacks lady, and claims she gave him a red x because she could not answer. (Lie number 2, not to mention his pride in his attack on her giving him a read x. Pride is sin is it not?)
So, are these things sin, or as you claim misunderstandings?

This is bad communication. And it is also too emotional.

Kids do this kind of thing in nursery. Can I play with this? No. Teacher says I can, snatch. You took my toy.
No I didn't, teacher said I could.

Once people start saying you did this for this reason etc. it all falls apart.
And to put it mildly, we have no real moderation or scene setting so no wonder it goes wrong quickly.
It is also why debating societies have slots, you say your piece, the audience come to their own conclusions.

So playing by these simple rules, not claiming people are lying, slandering etc. is a good way to go.
It is the truth that matters, that is our calling. It soon becomes obvious who loves truth and who does not.

So I do not get involved in this kind of "sin" calling because it just plays to those who hate love and hate
truth.

Am I wrong? It is just a way of navigating these type of places. I pray you can teach me by example how
to show more love and grace, so that we can all grow together into the likeness of Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is bad communication. And it is also too emotional.

Why do you excuse peoples sin, because they believe like you do?

It is not bad communication, and it is not emotional,

It is facts which if this were a lagal case, would be presented in a court of law. And used to prove a persons guilt. Because it is actions the person commited,

You do not attack people, then say i was just joking

And bearing false witness is what it is, a lie

If i do not agree with you, the christian response would be to say, ok I see your response, but i disagree with you, this is what i see.

The non christlike response is to lie and say you did. It answer, then continually harp on people saying they never answerd when they did

If goodnewsman would have responded the christianway, he would probably still be here.

 

[heavenhelpimtired]

So let me get this straight. You join the site like 5 minutes ago, read back 10+ pages of a thread of 90,000 posts you randomly chose, give an explanation as if you are intimately familiar with all the moving parts, and then think the whole exercise is funny?

Are you REALLY a pastor? Cause something doesn't pass the smell test here.[/QUOTE

I joined yesterday not 5 minutes ago. I am fairly well educated with approximately 4,543 books in my personal library.......so yeah I can read

Anyone with a little Bible knowledge can read his post and realize it's humor:

Maybe he thought you needed to laugh a little????

sat·ire
/ˈsaˌtī(ə)r/
noun
the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues

 

[Argueless]

You won't find a verse in scripture that specifically says, "justified by faith alone" which does not negate the fact that you don't need to add the word "alone" next to "belief/faith" in multiple passages of scripture which state that we are saved through "belief/faith" in order to figure out that the words, "belief/faith" stand alone in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation, as I already explained in post #88,173.

Now here is my request for you: Please post scripture that says we are "justified by faith and works" or "saved by faith and works."

You have a false man made doctrine of salvation by works. Therefore, having been "justified by faith.." (Romans 5:1) Faith plus what? Faith plus nothing. *Faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE. For by grace you have been "saved through faith.." Faith plus what? Faith plus nothing. *Faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE. Genuine believers who have placed their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ ALONE for salvation understand this. Works-salvationists (such as Roman Catholics and Mormons) don't understand this and make the same arguments that you are making, which is very telling. Your true colors are showing.

I have no false man made doctrine or bias. Salvation by faith and works is false man made doctrine (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) and so is salvation by an empty profession of faith/dead faith that "remains alone" -- barren of works (James 2:14-24). You fail to properly harmonize scripture with scripture in order to reach the proper conclusion on doctrine. Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24). *Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.* It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony*

Here is another passage of scripture that gets misinterpreted by works-salvationists. If someone has genuine saving faith in Christ and has received the Holy Spirit, then it would be impossible for them to have NO love at all. 1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.

Paul uses hyperbole about understanding ALL mysteries and ALL knowledge and having faith that can move mountains yet having NO love to stress the importance of love and is not teaching salvation based on the merits of acts of love/charity as you suppose. Faith works through love (Galatians 5:6), but we are saved through faith, not faith plus love/acts of charity. We could never perform enough acts of love to earn our salvation, yet the point that Paul is making is that love is the greater quality of the three because God is love and it outlasts them all. Long after faith and hope are no longer necessary once we are in the presence of the Lord, love will still be the governing principle that controls everything that God and his saints are and do. We won't need faith and hope once we are present with the Lord. So Paul is stressing the importance of love, not teaching that faith in Christ is insufficient to save us apart from enough acts of love. All genuine BELIEVERS love Christ. Why? Because we have received the love of God in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us (Romans 5:5) when we believed the gospel (Ephesians 1:13). We love Him because He first loved us (1 John 4:19). Also, if we have saving faith in Christ, then we have hope. Hebrews 11:1 - Faith is the substance of things hoped for..

In John 14:15, Jesus said - If you love Me, you will "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) My commandments, which does not mean sinless, perfect obedience 100% of the time, as sinless perfectionists teach. So keeping (guarding, observing, watching over) His commandments is the demonstrative evidence of our love for Christ, but is not the basis or means by which we receive eternal life. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9). Works-salvationists have this backwards. Only genuine believers are described as those who obey His teaching.

Seeking salvation by works is a good example of calling Jesus 'Lord, Lord" yet not doing what He says, as these many people in Matthew 7:21-23 will find out the hard way. I often hear works-salvationists quote passages of scripture about keeping commandments and obeying the Lord, then confidently and self righteously imply that they have sufficiently obeyed the Lord and will be saved based on the merits of their performance/works, then look down their noses at believers and imply that more than likely, they have not sufficiently obeyed the Lord and will not be saved, which reminds me of the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector in Luke 18:9-14.

Of course genuine faith results in obedience, yet we are saved through faith and not based on the merits of our obedience/works which follows. I already stated earlier in this post that "faith works through love" (Galatians 5:6)

I would rather believe what the scripture say than what men who nullify the law of God which God has commanded from the beginning and which the deceiver has been going against to suppress the truth and instill in our minds that it is OK to disobey God because if we are OSAS, we will not surely die which surely contradict the TRUTH.

Instead of throwing questions to reverse a situation, better be honest to answer a question or a request for you to show a scripture that says that we are justified by FAITH ALONE.

The difference with OSAS from non OSAS is that you reject and nullify certain scriptures or twist them to say otherwise which non OSAS have no need to do.

Did Jesus and His disciples teach that if they have WORKS that could move mountains but have no LOVE, you are NOTHING?

Did they ever teach DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD?

Do you not IMPLY or SUGGEST by saying that you are saved by FAITH ALONE that Jesus is a WORKS SALVATIONIST for teaching that we should obey the commandments if we want to ENTER LIFE, get ETERNAL LIFE or be IN HIM (see Matthew 19:16-30 & 1 John 2:3-6) in the same way that you call those who disagree with OSAS?

Where in scripture did the FATHER, THE SON and THE HOLY SPIRIT say that ONCE you are SAVED, you are ALWAYS SAVED? Kindly show us that we might be EDIFIED and not be DECEIVED by a FALSE TEACHING.

Thanks in advance and may God bless you.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Why do you excuse peoples sin, because they believe like you do?
It is not bad communication, and it is not emotional,
It is facts which if this were a lagal case, would be presented in a court of law. And used to prove a persons guilt. Because it is actions the person commited,
You do not attack people, then say i was just joking
And bearing false witness is what it is, a lie
If i do not agree with you, the christian response would be to say, ok I see your response, but i disagree with you, this is what i see.
The non christlike response is to lie and say you did. It answer, then continually harp on people saying they never answerd when they did
If goodnewsman would have responded the christianway, he would probably still be here.

I apologise. I excuse peoples sin. I am now going to react like you are doing.
Here are my words in this role - "That is a lie and a slander, you sinner, off with your head"

I am literally saying, forgive, show mercy, and feel someones pain and thrust of argument.

We have different approaches. I desire to get alongside people and hear them.
If what I am sharing does not chime with your heart, so be it. I am trying to understand you my friend.

And I do not agree with people, but I want to give them space to express who they are.
Jesus accepts me and works with me as I am, so I need to do the same with others.

 

[gb9]

Why do you excuse peoples sin, because they believe like you do?

It is not bad communication, and it is not emotional,

It is facts which if this were a lagal case, would be presented in a court of law. And used to prove a persons guilt. Because it is actions the person commited,

You do not attack people, then say i was just joking

And bearing false witness is what it is, a lie

If i do not agree with you, the christian response would be to say, ok I see your response, but i disagree with you, this is what i see.

The non christlike response is to lie and say you did. It answer, then continually harp on people saying they never answerd when they did

If goodnewsman would have responded the christianway, he would probably still be here.

here is one-

lady ask man question ( about the Narrow Way).

man answers question.

lady cannot refute answer, so accuses the man of telling her she is going to hell, and says she does not respond to any who say such things. ( which were not said,)

man points out to lady he did not type the words that lady accused him of typing, and ask for an apology.

lady tells man to grow up.

now, this is a true story, involving me and fran.

some may call this an " misunderstanding " or say " well, that's an emotional subject".

I call falsely accusing someone , then refusing to acknowledge it.

in other words, sin.

many on here need to call sin out, and stop excusing it.

 

[heavenhelpimtired]

This is bad communication. And it is also too emotional.

Kids do this kind of thing in nursery. Can I play with this? No. Teacher says I can, snatch. You took my toy.
No I didn't, teacher said I could.

Once people start saying you did this for this reason etc. it all falls apart.
And to put it mildly, we have no real moderation or scene setting so no wonder it goes wrong quickly.
It is also why debating societies have slots, you say your piece, the audience come to their own conclusions.

So playing by these simple rules, not claiming people are lying, slandering etc. is a good way to go.
It is the truth that matters, that is our calling. It soon becomes obvious who loves truth and who does not.

So I do not get involved in this kind of "sin" calling because it just plays to those who hate love and hate
truth.

Am I wrong? It is just a way of navigating these type of places. I pray you can teach me by example how
to show more love and grace, so that we can all grow together into the likeness of Christ.

What if a thread is moving so fast and one is being attacked on every side and he honesty didn't see someone's response, only that they have given you red x and he reponds by saying so.

And then someone else, who he wasn't even talking to cries out "hahahah Liar Liar, Crucify him"

The Bible teaches us not to judge a matter until you hear the conclusion of matter.......

Until then we should probably say "my name's paul, that's between y'all"
Or say
"My names Bennet and I ain't in it"

 

[dcontroversal]

Hi D...I heard a story from a preacher saying that a chinese lady had asked him
" So my mother is in hell because she did not die with Jesus as her Savior " he replied " Yes "
She said " Well in that case , I would rather be with my mother in hell , then be in heaven without her "....xox..

10 to 1 she will change her mind...........when or if she makes that trip

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I joined yesterday not 5 minutes ago. I am fairly well educated with approximately 4,543 books in my personal library.......so yeah I can read

Anyone with a little Bible knowledge can read his post and realize it's humor:

Maybe he thought you needed to laugh a little????

sat·ire
/ˈsaˌtī(ə)r/
noun
the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues

I guess this poster thinks he knows more then the mods and most others, who knew different. Even thise who were sorry to see hm go admitted what he did was wrong,

Are you nonewsman returned? Seems like you (He) used this same excuse when you (he) yelled at a young sister who gave him a read x, when you (he) was confronted about that incident.

 

[heavenhelpimtired]

here is one-

lady ask man question ( about the Narrow Way).

man answers question.

lady cannot refute answer, so accuses the man of telling her she is going to hell, and says she does not respond to any who say such things. ( which were not said,)

man points out to lady he did not type the words that lady accused him of typing, and ask for an apology.

lady tells man to grow up.

now, this is a true story, involving me and fran.

some may call this an " misunderstanding " or say " well, that's an emotional subject".

I call falsely accusing someone , then refusing to acknowledge it.

in other words, sin.

many on here need to call sin out, and stop excusing it.

I'm second guesI joined yesterday not 5 minutes ago. I am fairly well educated with approximately 4,543 books in my personal library.......so yeah I can read

Anyone with a little Bible knowledge can read his post and realize it's humor:

Maybe he thought you needed to laugh a little????

sat·ire
/ˈsaˌtī(ə)r/
noun
the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What if a thread is moving so fast and one is being attacked on every side and he honesty didn't see someone's response, only that they have given you red x and he reponds by saying so.

And then someone else, who he wasn't even talking to cries out "hahahah Liar Liar, Crucify him"

The Bible teaches us not to judge a matter until you hear the conclusion of matter.......

Until then we should probably say "my name's paul, that's between y'all"
Or say
"My names Bennet and I ain't in it"

1. He saw them, people showed him and multiple people called him out on those things, even showing him the posts.
2. It was a habit, which kept getting worse
3. Not only was his lies getting worse, his language and attacks got worse.
4. He continued to demand answers, yet refused to answer others. (The defenition of do,as i say not as i do)

Why are you excusing other peoples sins?

 

[Hevosmies]

Education is tough! Even the application is difficult! Oy vey!

Wish I was born in a simpler time!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

here is one-

lady ask man question ( about the Narrow Way).

man answers question.

lady cannot refute answer, so accuses the man of telling her she is going to hell, and says she does not respond to any who say such things. ( which were not said,)

man points out to lady he did not type the words that lady accused him of typing, and ask for an apology.

lady tells man to grow up.

now, this is a true story, involving me and fran.

some may call this an " misunderstanding " or say " well, that's an emotional subject".

I call falsely accusing someone , then refusing to acknowledge it.

in other words, sin.

many on here need to call sin out, and stop excusing it.

Its also why i have her on ignore.

Nonewsman seemed to want to hinestly discuss, so i did not ignore him, never got to that point, his true self showed before i could get there