Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Nice try....the key is the GIFTS and CALL of God...not CALLINGS.....and JUDAS was CALLED to fulfill scripture......good twist, but no cigar....I fully expect you to twist this as well.....like you do on almost every other truth........Here let me spell it out
JUDAS was CALLED to FULFILL SCRIPTURE...THIS particularly POINTED call was IRREVOCABLE....JUDAS was going to be the ONE to SELL out JESUS......NO OTHER man in HISTORY could be that MAN.......and are you too dense and dishonest to acknowledge he was called both LOST and A DEVIL in present TENSE.......more dishonesty and lack of integrity on your part....
Do me a favor....if you cannot be honest and show some scriptural integrity DO NOT address me.........simple as!!!!!
JUDAS was CALLED to FULFILL SCRIPTURE...THIS particularly POINTED call was IRREVOCABLE....JUDAS was going to be the ONE to SELL out JESUS......NO OTHER man in HISTORY could be that MAN.......and are you too dense and dishonest to acknowledge he was called both LOST and A DEVIL in present TENSE.......more dishonesty and lack of integrity on your part....
Do me a favor....if you cannot be honest and show some scriptural integrity DO NOT address me.........simple as!!!!!
God has blessed us with this time and this opportunity to explore His word and truth.
Are we enemies who must be opposed at every level or friends coming to praise and worship our Lord and King?
I see us as Gods people exploring and sharing His way to His glory, Amen.
How do you see us?
Are we enemies who must be opposed at every level or friends coming to praise and worship our Lord and King?
I see us as Gods people exploring and sharing His way to His glory, Amen.
How do you see us?
-
1
- Show all
A pastor friend of mine said to me that there was some gossip about a certain issue going around his church.
My friend's wife went to one of the sisters in the church that was doing some talkin herself, to try and find out what was going on...... He said this lady talked for two hours about the situation and then said "well..... I've already told you more than I know". Lol
My friend's wife went to one of the sisters in the church that was doing some talkin herself, to try and find out what was going on...... He said this lady talked for two hours about the situation and then said "well..... I've already told you more than I know". Lol
- pretend it's a rectangle
- discard half your answer
That's exactly how it is.
We had to learn the formula.
You make it sound so easy because it really is easy.
-
1
- Show all
These salvation losers MUST of necessity have JUDAS saved and then LOST.....even though the bible states he IS a devil and was LOST and the SON of Perdition......one thing I have learned over the last 35 years or so is the simple truth that there is not a lick of honesty found in those that peddle a losable salvation and or a salvation that must be maintained by works......even on this thread we all see how they embellish what we say, accuse us of living in sin or lives of immorality because we believe in the eternal security of the believer, they will disregard context, words, Greek verb tense while denying the very verbiage of the bible while embellishing it to the point that is has no more value than a box of cracker jacks...........so far I have had the following experiences...
a. One deny and argue JESUS becoming a curse for us--Galatians
b. One deny Judas was always lost ---IS a devil, LOST, Son of Perdition
c. Many argue salvation is eternal---Irrevocable, Incorruptible, Eternal, Everlasting NOT TEMPORAL
d. ONE say it cannot be earned and then say it must be earned
e. Several have been banned and came back breaking the rules shows no honesty or integrity
f. Several deny saved to the uttermost, kept by the power of GOD
g. Several say WE MUST KEEP ourselves in the faith--JESUS begins, finishes and COMPLETES the faith in us
h. Several will make a post and get called on it and then embellish it or say they said something else
I could probably list 500 things I have seen just on this site and in this thread that speaks to no integrity and no honor or honesty with the word of God and or what we say...........and they ALL peddle a losable salvation that must be kept by obedience and works even though JESUS states clearly that the NUMBER will BE MANY <----PLENTEOUS that comes before the throne peddling the exact same dogma that the workers for and salvation losers peddle
THEY claim JESUS as LORD and the fully expect to enter because they have done many wonderful works in his name......the EXACT same dogma..........
a. One deny and argue JESUS becoming a curse for us--Galatians
b. One deny Judas was always lost ---IS a devil, LOST, Son of Perdition
c. Many argue salvation is eternal---Irrevocable, Incorruptible, Eternal, Everlasting NOT TEMPORAL
d. ONE say it cannot be earned and then say it must be earned
e. Several have been banned and came back breaking the rules shows no honesty or integrity
f. Several deny saved to the uttermost, kept by the power of GOD
g. Several say WE MUST KEEP ourselves in the faith--JESUS begins, finishes and COMPLETES the faith in us
h. Several will make a post and get called on it and then embellish it or say they said something else
I could probably list 500 things I have seen just on this site and in this thread that speaks to no integrity and no honor or honesty with the word of God and or what we say...........and they ALL peddle a losable salvation that must be kept by obedience and works even though JESUS states clearly that the NUMBER will BE MANY <----PLENTEOUS that comes before the throne peddling the exact same dogma that the workers for and salvation losers peddle
THEY claim JESUS as LORD and the fully expect to enter because they have done many wonderful works in his name......the EXACT same dogma..........
E
i am also a big fan of using correct language
and i've said for quite a while, that 'OSAS' is an incorrect framing of the eternal security and steadfast hope we have in Him who saved, saves, and will save us.
thanks for mentioning it
and i've said for quite a while, that 'OSAS' is an incorrect framing of the eternal security and steadfast hope we have in Him who saved, saves, and will save us.
thanks for mentioning it
If only we could start using correct language, I do believe there would be less arguing.
I wrote a post on it that you probably missed.
It's no. 86,226
It's in my own words.
OSAS is not biblically correct.
Eternal Salvation is. ( I think what you and I believe)
And Pres. of the Saints is a whole different topic.
-
2
- Show all
The real question is: what is jaywalking? The street sign looks like regular walking to me.
is regular walking forbidden in America? lol.
Second of all @Goodnewsman I would contend that even IF Judas cast out devils with Jesus' name DOESNT MAKE HIM SAVED.
Have you read Matthew 7:21-23? It says just that. DID WE NOT in your name do this and that, and it includes cast out devils. Yet Jesus never knew them.
This is how certain heretical groups today lure people in. By signs and wonders, they might be all off on doctrine and contradict the Bible left and right but it doesnt matter because: "Would God move here like this, if we were so disobedient" "dont put God in a box" and all the rest of it! Yes devils can be cast out left and right and the people doing it still wont be saved. Its clear in Matthew 7:21-23.
PS: God has already put Himself in a box in the sense that He has said what He will do, and wont do, and He cant lie! so there is that!
is regular walking forbidden in America? lol.
Second of all @Goodnewsman I would contend that even IF Judas cast out devils with Jesus' name DOESNT MAKE HIM SAVED.
Have you read Matthew 7:21-23? It says just that. DID WE NOT in your name do this and that, and it includes cast out devils. Yet Jesus never knew them.
This is how certain heretical groups today lure people in. By signs and wonders, they might be all off on doctrine and contradict the Bible left and right but it doesnt matter because: "Would God move here like this, if we were so disobedient" "dont put God in a box" and all the rest of it! Yes devils can be cast out left and right and the people doing it still wont be saved. Its clear in Matthew 7:21-23.
PS: God has already put Himself in a box in the sense that He has said what He will do, and wont do, and He cant lie! so there is that!
-
2
- Show all
You are either dense or willfully ignorant.......SHOW TWO witnesses from the word where the DEVIL was allowed to enter a BELIEVER...HE was called A DEVIL, THE SON OF PERDITION, LOST, AND REFERENCED AS THE ONE WHO WOULD NOT BELIEVE.......you are being willfully obstinate and holding to a false dogma!
John 13:18-30
18 I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.
19 Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he.
20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
21 When Jesus had thus said, he was troubled in spirit, and testified, and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.
22 Then the disciples looked one on another, doubting of whom he spake.
23 Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved.
24 Simon Peter therefore beckoned to him, that he should ask who it should be of whom he spake.
25 He then lying on Jesus' breast saith unto him, Lord, who is it?
26 Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.
27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.
"Brethren, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit foretold by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus.
John 13:18-30
18 I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.
19 Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he.
20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
21 When Jesus had thus said, he was troubled in spirit, and testified, and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.
22 Then the disciples looked one on another, doubting of whom he spake.
23 Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved.
24 Simon Peter therefore beckoned to him, that he should ask who it should be of whom he spake.
25 He then lying on Jesus' breast saith unto him, Lord, who is it?
26 Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.
27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.
"Brethren, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit foretold by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus.
-
1
- Show all
I just cant get over what I said previously that ETERNAL LIFE lasts forever, it is everlasting, i've looked at all the greek material from not only legit scholars but also from unitarian heretics like Thayers, they ALL agree with the english translations.. Once you are saved its over. You are SEALED with the Holy Spirit, until the DAY OF REDEMPTION.
Holy Spirit is the guarantee of our inheritance UNTIL the redemption!
I feel you are leaving God completely out the picture! YOU have to maintain belief, YOU have to do this and that! But where is God in the picture, where is God working in you to do and will of His good pleasure? Where is God who gives faith to each in measure?
Now to the how to know you're one of the elect:
Faith is evidence! 1John 5:13
This article says it all in nice short way: https://www.gotquestions.org/one-of-the-elect.html
Holy Spirit is the guarantee of our inheritance UNTIL the redemption!
I feel you are leaving God completely out the picture! YOU have to maintain belief, YOU have to do this and that! But where is God in the picture, where is God working in you to do and will of His good pleasure? Where is God who gives faith to each in measure?
Now to the how to know you're one of the elect:
Faith is evidence! 1John 5:13
This article says it all in nice short way: https://www.gotquestions.org/one-of-the-elect.html
-
3
- Show all
And yet they MUST have him saved and then LOSING IT..........like using scotch tape on a table leg to support their false dogma.......it amazes me that they can take the verse that STATES clearly that NOT ALL BELIEVE and say HE believed and lost it......like I said NO honesty or integrity with some of these people
-
1
-
1
- Show all
To believe in Jesus Christ unto salvation is to have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. Obedience which follows is WORKS and we are saved through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9). Obedience may be a manifestation of believing and choosing to believe in the Son is the act of obedience that saves, which causes confusion for people who define "believe" as "obey" and the erroneous end result is salvation by works.
While growing up in the Roman Catholic church, prior to my conversion, I was falsely taught that belief/faith is "defined as" obedience/works. I was recently in a discussion with a Roman Catholic who claims that the Roman Catholic church does not teach works salvation, then afterward, contradicted himself by making this statement below:
We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc..
The argument from this Roman Catholic above demonstrates the error of "defining" faith "as" obedience/works. His argument about not teaching works salvation, then turning around and saying that faith is "defined as" and INCLUDES these works listed above in blue is just sugar coated double talk and equates to salvation through faith (his version of faith) + works.
While growing up in the Roman Catholic church, prior to my conversion, I was falsely taught that belief/faith is "defined as" obedience/works. I was recently in a discussion with a Roman Catholic who claims that the Roman Catholic church does not teach works salvation, then afterward, contradicted himself by making this statement below:
We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc..
The argument from this Roman Catholic above demonstrates the error of "defining" faith "as" obedience/works. His argument about not teaching works salvation, then turning around and saying that faith is "defined as" and INCLUDES these works listed above in blue is just sugar coated double talk and equates to salvation through faith (his version of faith) + works.
-
1
- Show all