Not By Works

[unclesilas]

How long for unbelief, a day, a year.

I know the verses Thank you,

Do you know what is wilful sin, this relates to the Old Testament?

How much wilfull sin? You are adding in about the hardened heart and willful sin, it does not always hardens one's heart that is a lie.

Do you really think this is how God operates.....um okay that is four willful sins you are out, done..... now you have a hard heart, ......finito.... out ....be gone from my sight!!

You are therefore saying that Jesus did not pay for all sins, you cannot have it both ways.

Truthfully in my experience those that cannot accept that God does NOT turn out those that are His, whom He has adopted are people with hard hearts because they keep making Christianity about personal performance, projecting their own personal needs onto God.

Its a rather silly comment to say how many sins hardens the heart isn't it. If you cannot understand that Jesus paid for all of your sins providing you live under a righteousness of faith in him, then there is really no [point to this. If you will not believe what the bible plainly states, it is obvious you will not believe me either:


For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life john3:16

When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 about sin, because people do not believe in me; John16:8&9

For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed – a righteousness that is by faith from first to last,[e] just as it is written: ‘The righteous will live by faith. rom1:17

But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe rom3:21&22

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. rom10:4

We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles 16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in[d] Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified. Gal2:15-17

not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in[a] Christ – the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith. phil3:9

21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[g] your evil behaviour. 22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation – 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. col1:21-23

But my righteous[g] one will live by faith.
And I take no pleasure
in the one who shrinks back.’[h]

39 But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved. Heb10:39-40

 

[GodsGrace101]

My view from day one has always been consistent..........I personally believe this is the 4 ways the word of God is applicable unto a lost man when it is proclaimed....

a. The first guy which is the MANY and broad road are LOST <---Most go this route

b. The second guy receives the word with joy, is saved but has no spiritual growth and because of no growth will eventually due to circumstance fall away to the world.....

c. The third guy receives the word, is saved, but allows the weeds of the world to choke out his production and the fruit he bears is choked down by the weeds of worldliness

d. The fourth guy receives the word, is saved, grows and matures and produces an abundance......

Within the saved today we can find ALL three

a. Saved with no spiritual growth,remains immature and easily offended
b. Saved yet worldly with choked out growth and crappy fruit
c. Saved, faithful and bearing lots of fruit

I will remind every ONE that ALL three above by faith into the son have done the WORK of the HEAVENLY FATHER in belief.

That is my view..........I cannot side step the words received with joy and the fact that the seed SPROUTED

Paul and Apollos

ONE planted, one watered <----WHO causes the SEED to sprout-->NO ROOT equals NO GROWTH, yet the SEED did indeed sprout

You showed 4 types but then commented on only 3...hope this doesn't confuse anybody.

I'll give you what I've learned....

a. He did not understand. The evil one snatches away what little had been sown immediately. This person is lost.

b. No. Those on the rocky soil hear and receive the word with joy. They BELIEVE (are saved) for a while, and then fall away. Matthew uses the words "they are TEMPORARY". So these would be persons who were believers, but then fell away. One must fall away from SOMETHING. If you think they're saved you'll have to explain what they fell away FROM. These fell away because they had no root...and they had temptation, or tribulation...there are different reasons why persons fall away from the faith.

c. These bring no fruit to maturity. They did not stay with Jesus, as He explains in John 15:5-6....
They bore no fruit...they were like a dead branch that was cut off and burned.

d. These are the eterrnally saved. The were prepared...like John the Baptist prepared the way for Jesus. They had good soil...or a good heart. They heard the word and they HOLD IT FAST. They BEAR FRUIT with perseverance...that means continually. If you recall Jesus said that He is the vine and IF we are IN HIM,,,,we will bear fruit. John 15:5


Of the 4 above,

a. is lost from the beginning
b. becomes lost because he has no firm root and FALLS AWAY from the faith.
c. becomes lost because he is choked by worldly worries and pleasures (One cannot serve both mammon and God).
d. he is saved eternally because he HOLDS FAST the word of God and as a result he bears fruit with perseverance....he does not give up, even in times of difficulty.


I do think it's very important to understand this parable because it's one of the most important to teach about salvation, our faith, what it asks of us, and how we're to hold tight to Jesus.

 

[GodsGrace101]

so, if a person is not instantly freed from addiction , then they are not saved,

your view could not be more wrong if you spent 24 hours comtemplating how to be wrong.

You really should read what people post.

You didn't understand anything @unclesilas posted.

 

[dcontroversal]

You mean you believe unbaptized babies go to hell?

We all have a choice D,
We're born lost....but at some point in our adult life we can CHOOSE to be on God's side or satan's side.
If we choose to be on satan's side...we end up in hell.
Isn't it Jesus that saves?
Isn't this why we should choose God?

Don't we even agree on this!

Show me one example of a baby being immersed.....there are NONE.....only the religiously blind baptize babies......another Catholic practice that was taken by the daughters of the Catholic church....

 

[Macabeus]

yes, the Word begins to bear fruit inside someone when they hear and understand it,

but, that does not mean that the fruit will manifest itself outwardly right away.

for example, someone can be a drunk for 20 years, hear and receive the Gospel one day, and never drink again. another can be the same, and hear and believe the Gospel, and struggle for years to beak the addiction. is one more saved than the other? we do not know.

so, you see, if you did not have the judgemental additude you would not be continuing obsessing over how long it takes for the internal Holy Sprit to begin to show outward signs.

Another one shifts goalposts

yes, the Word begins to bear fruit inside someone when they hear and understand it,

but, that does not mean that the fruit will manifest itself outwardly r

for example, someone can be a drunk for 20 years, hear and receive the Gospel one day, and never drink again. another can be the same, and hear and believe the Gospel, and struggle for years to beak the addiction. is one more saved than the other? we do not know.

so, you see, if you did not have the judgemental additude you would not be continuing obsessing over how long it takes for the internal Holy Sprit to begin to show outward signs.

LOL, another one who shifts the goalposts because he does not know the difference between a necessity and a contingent possibility

you haven't been reading. DC said "IT TAKES A PERIOD OF GROWTH AND MATURITY. That makes the condition A NECESSITY, necessary condition

He did not say "IT MAY TAKE YEARS", as you and EG claim. "It may take years" speaks of a possible, contingency, not a necessary condition

I am arguing against THE NECESSITY of a period of growth and maturity for bearing fruit". You are changing the argument to make me say that it NEVER takes a period of growth and maturity.

Two different arguments.

argument a- DC- "it takes a period of growth and maturity before we can bear ANYTHING. (yes, DC said that, go back and read the posts, it has been repeated and documented.

argument b. It may take years...etc.

Two different arguments. Shifting the goalposts

I'm sorry you don't know the difference between "It takes" and "it may take". But the difference is vast.

You and eternally gratefull shifted the goalposts.

I'm wasting my time with you

 

[Macabeus]

You really should read what people post.

You didn't understand anything @unclesilas posted.

He doesn't read. See my last post as evidence of that.

 

[dcontroversal]

so, if a person is not instantly freed from addiction , then they are not saved,

your view could not be more wrong if you spent 24 hours comtemplating how to be wrong.

HAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHA man that was hilarious

 

[GodsGrace101]

Show me one example of a baby being immersed.....there are NONE.....only the religiously blind baptize babies......another Catholic practice that was taken by the daughters of the Catholic church....

Could you stop fighting with me and read what I posted.
And then could you please answer what I asked you.
Thanks.

 

[unclesilas]

so, if a person is not instantly freed from addiction , then they are not saved,

your view could not be more wrong if you spent 24 hours comtemplating how to be wrong.

Go back and reread what I wrote, an apology would be accepted

 

[gb9]

We are not pecan trees. This is called making an analovy walk on all fours

Israel was an agricultural society. they understood , as I do, if you plant a grape vine this week, you ain't gonna have grapes next week.

it does not mean anything is wrong with the seed, it just takes time for the growing vine to break through the ground, spread out runners, bloom, and grow clusters of grapes.

the Jews in those days knew this. too bad you do not.

 

[dcontroversal]

You showed 4 types but then commented on only 3...hope this doesn't confuse anybody.

I'll give you what I've learned....

a. He did not understand. The evil one snatches away what little had been sown immediately. This person is lost.

b. No. Those on the rocky soil hear and receive the word with joy. They BELIEVE (are saved) for a while, and then fall away. Matthew uses the words "they are TEMPORARY". So these would be persons who were believers, but then fell away. One must fall away from SOMETHING. If you think they're saved you'll have to explain what they fell away FROM. These fell away because they had no root...and they had temptation, or tribulation...there are different reasons why persons fall away from the faith.

c. These bring no fruit to maturity. They did not stay with Jesus, as He explains in John 15:5-6....
They bore no fruit...they were like a dead branch that was cut off and burned.

d. These are the eterrnally saved. The were prepared...like John the Baptist prepared the way for Jesus. They had good soil...or a good heart. They heard the word and they HOLD IT FAST. They BEAR FRUIT with perseverance...that means continually. If you recall Jesus said that He is the vine and IF we are IN HIM,,,,we will bear fruit. John 15:5


Of the 4 above,

a. is lost from the beginning
b. becomes lost because he has no firm root and FALLS AWAY from the faith.
c. becomes lost because he is choked by worldly worries and pleasures (One cannot serve both mammon and God).
d. he is saved eternally because he HOLDS FAST the word of God and as a result he bears fruit with perseverance....he does not give up, even in times of difficulty.


I do think it's very important to understand this parable because it's one of the most important to teach about salvation, our faith, what it asks of us, and how we're to hold tight to Jesus.

No, I did comment on all 4 and your losable salvation = zero because there is no such animal in the bible....regardless of how many times you peddle it....or anyone elee for that matter....

 

[Macabeus]

Israel was an agricultural society. they understood , as I do, if you plant a grape vine this week, you ain't gonna have grapes next week.

it does not mean anything is wrong with the seed, it just takes time for the growing vine to break through the ground, spread out runners, bloom, and grow clusters of grapes.

the Jews in those days knew this. too bad you do not.

Ever heard of the proverb "you cannot make an analogy walk on all fours"?

apparently not, goalpost shifter. Be sure to read my last two posts, though I doubt you will bother to understand them.

You are a goalpost shifter because you changed a necessary, certain condition "it takes years" to a uncertain, contingent condition, "it may take years"

"it takes years"

"it may take years"

Entirely different arguments

Goal post shifting.

and you cannot make an analogy walk on all fours. google it

 

[dcontroversal]

You really should read what people post.

You didn't understand anything @unclesilas posted.

Of course we never understand anything the workers for, Cainologists, salvation losers post, but you guys understand everything.........right?

Hilariously sad at the end of the day Fran

 

[GodsGrace101]

Its a rather silly comment to say how many sins hardens the heart isn't it. If you cannot understand that Jesus paid for all of your sins providing you live under a righteousness of faith in him, then there is really no [point to this. If you will not believe what the bible plainly states, it is obvious you will not believe me either:


For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life john3:16

When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 about sin, because people do not believe in me; John16:8&9

For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed – a righteousness that is by faith from first to last,[e] just as it is written: ‘The righteous will live by faith. rom1:17

But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe rom3:21&22

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. rom10:4

We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles 16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in[d] Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified. Gal2:15-17

not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in[a] Christ – the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith. phil3:9

21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[g] your evil behaviour. 22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation – 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. col1:21-23

But my righteous[g] one will live by faith.
And I take no pleasure
in the one who shrinks back.’[h]

39 But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved. Heb10:39-40

I've been asked this same silly question since I've been here.

To which I have replied...never as well as you.

If someone cannot understand the bible properly,,,they won't understand anything.
This is the conclusion I've come to.

But the truth must be told...no matter how many times.
Onward Christian Soldier....

 

[dcontroversal]

Could you stop fighting with me and read what I posted.
And then could you please answer what I asked you.
Thanks.

Who is fighting Fran.......I just oppose your Catholic twist I keep myself saved fallacy .......

 

[GodsGrace101]

Of course we never understand anything the workers for, Cainologists, salvation losers post, but you guys understand everything.........right?

Hilariously sad at the end of the day Fran

Did you know there are 40,000 different Protestant denominations, incl independent churches.
This is because people think they could read the bible and come up with their own theories.
Something so simple to understand as The Parable of the Sower is changed to mean what YOU want it to mean...

But any intelligent person could read it for themselves and not depend on others and they will understand it if they go to it with a clear mind.

What is sad D, is that we can't agree on a VERY IMPORTANT theory, such as eternal security.
I do believe in eternal security BTW,,,but there ARE conditions.

OSAS is NOT biblical and no amount of twisting words will make it so.
Revelation 21:27

 

[gb9]

Ever heard of the proverb "you cannot make an analogy walk on all fours"?

apparently not, goalpost shifter. Be sure to read my last two posts, though I doubt you will bother to understand them.

You are a goalpost shifter because you changed a necessary, certain condition "it takes years" to a uncertain, contingent condition, "it may take years"

"it takes years"

"it may take years"

Entirely different arguments

Goal post shifting.

and you cannot make an analogy walk on all fours. google it

so, explaining how grapes. which were a staple of that area, grow, is " moving the goal post".

o.k.

this whole back and fourth is about how long ( not that it matters, it only matters to judgers like you), It takes to produce fruit. and actually explaining how fruit grows is bad,

amazing.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Who is fighting Fran.......I just oppose your Catholic twist I keep myself saved fallacy .......

You think this is a catholic thing?

Here are some churches that believe in loss of salvation:

Assembly of God
Nazarene
Catholic
Lutheran
Methodist



And others. I believe the above should be enough to make you stop bringing up catholicism.

And you didn't answer.
As usual....no problem.

 

[Macabeus]

so, explaining how grapes. which were a staple of that area, grow, is " moving the goal post".



amazing.

NO, changing the original argument from "it takes a period of growth and maturity to bear fruit" to "it MAY take a period..." is goalpost shifting. But I shouldn't expect you to know the difference between the two statements, I guess

And also, what you are doing with the grapes is making an analogy walk on all fours. Google it.

 

[Macabeus]

so, explaining how grapes. which were a staple of that area, grow, is " moving the goal post".

o.k.

this whole back and fourth is about how long ( not that it matters, it only matters to judgers like you), It takes to produce fruit. and actually explaining how fruit grows is bad,

amazing.

.
Here's a little something for your learning

https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/do-not-make-a-parable-walk-on-fours.3181598/