Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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Fran, you would agree with the devil if you thought he was standing against me or something I said....the Heretic is not right.....men do not chose to go to hell...they chose to reject Christ, hell is already a given.......wake up to the truth and start standing for the truth instead of being an obstinate hard head.......!
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Your speaking of the sanctification process here.
Hebrews speaks of this process. Telling us in fact we first have to be perfected (saved) and all of this is the work of God
For by one sacrifice he (God) has PERFECTED FOREVER (saved eternally) those who are BEING SANCTIFIED (learning to be like God)
When we try to mix justification (the rightiousness of God in us, being perfected forever, which means forever.) with sanctification (ongoing christian growth which takes a lifetime) we are mixing grace and works, which is really no different than mixing grace and law. Which as paul said is another gospel. And has no pwer to save anyone,
Hebrews speaks of this process. Telling us in fact we first have to be perfected (saved) and all of this is the work of God
For by one sacrifice he (God) has PERFECTED FOREVER (saved eternally) those who are BEING SANCTIFIED (learning to be like God)
When we try to mix justification (the rightiousness of God in us, being perfected forever, which means forever.) with sanctification (ongoing christian growth which takes a lifetime) we are mixing grace and works, which is really no different than mixing grace and law. Which as paul said is another gospel. And has no pwer to save anyone,
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AMEN.......they absolutely cannot grasp the fact that our spirit has been born again, by GOD'S Holy Spirit from ABOVE by INCORRUPTIBLE SEED and it is NOT only ETERNALLY sealed IN CHRIST, it is also a gift that is IRREVOCABLY given. I can tell you that JESUS was clear about those that COME before his throne that end of getting cast....they peddle the same drivel that the workers for, Cainologists and salvation losers on this thread peddle......the EXACT same dogma.....
a. THEY claim JESUS as LORD
b. THEY fully expect to enter based upon what they have done in the name of JESUS, NAMELY many wonderful, good works........
a. THEY claim JESUS as LORD
b. THEY fully expect to enter based upon what they have done in the name of JESUS, NAMELY many wonderful, good works........
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Luk 8:5 A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it.
Luk 8:6 And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.
Luk 8:7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it.
Luk 8:8 And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Luk 8:9 And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be?
Luk 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
Luk 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
Luk 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
Luk 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
Luk 8:14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
Luk 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
Thats the parable and its explanation.
After reading that I would say that the ones that "bring no fruit to perfection" are saved, because they still bring forth fruit, just not to perfection. And obviously the good ground is saved thats clear.
But the ones on the way side are DEFINATELY unsaved, since devil takes away the word so they WONT believe and be saved, says that clearly. I believe those who "in time of temptation" FALL AWAY are also unsaved, since how can you fall away and be saved?
Thats the real question to brother @dcontroversal If I understood you right bro, you believe the "fall away" rocky soil with no root is still saved? Can you explain that to me. And do you agree with me on the rest of my views on the parable?
PS: I like it how i LIED just a couple of pages before that i could EXIT the thread. AS IF i would pass on all this action going on here, this is the most active thread on the forum!
Luk 8:6 And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.
Luk 8:7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it.
Luk 8:8 And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Luk 8:9 And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be?
Luk 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
Luk 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
Luk 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
Luk 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
Luk 8:14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
Luk 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
Thats the parable and its explanation.
After reading that I would say that the ones that "bring no fruit to perfection" are saved, because they still bring forth fruit, just not to perfection. And obviously the good ground is saved thats clear.
But the ones on the way side are DEFINATELY unsaved, since devil takes away the word so they WONT believe and be saved, says that clearly. I believe those who "in time of temptation" FALL AWAY are also unsaved, since how can you fall away and be saved?
Thats the real question to brother @dcontroversal If I understood you right bro, you believe the "fall away" rocky soil with no root is still saved? Can you explain that to me. And do you agree with me on the rest of my views on the parable?
PS: I like it how i LIED just a couple of pages before that i could EXIT the thread. AS IF i would pass on all this action going on here, this is the most active thread on the forum!
AMEN to that one as well.....you know MANY overlook the verses that prove we cannot even come close to saving ourselves...God gave a list of three men in the entire OT and said...IF IT WERE POSSIBLE for a man to be delivered by their own righteousnesses it would be these three....DANIEL was one of the three listed and YET we have scriptures of this righteous man confessing HIS SINS.....
NO ONE is good enough or will ever be good enough because the LAW condemns ALL as guilty...exactly why the RIGHTEOUSNESS of CHRIST without the LAW needs to be imputed by FAITH <-----OUR WORKS will not IMPUTE anything.....but GENUINE FAITH will!!
NO ONE is good enough or will ever be good enough because the LAW condemns ALL as guilty...exactly why the RIGHTEOUSNESS of CHRIST without the LAW needs to be imputed by FAITH <-----OUR WORKS will not IMPUTE anything.....but GENUINE FAITH will!!
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My view from day one has always been consistent..........I personally believe this is the 4 ways the word of God is applicable unto a lost man when it is proclaimed....
a. The first guy which is the MANY and broad road are LOST <---Most go this route
b. The second guy receives the word with joy, is saved but has no spiritual growth and because of no growth will eventually due to circumstance fall away to the world.....
c. The third guy receives the word, is saved, but allows the weeds of the world to choke out his production and the fruit he bears is choked down by the weeds of worldliness
d. The fourth guy receives the word, is saved, grows and matures and produces an abundance......
Within the saved today we can find ALL three
a. Saved with no spiritual growth,remains immature and easily offended
b. Saved yet worldly with choked out growth and crappy fruit
c. Saved, faithful and bearing lots of fruit
I will remind every ONE that ALL three above by faith into the son have done the WORK of the HEAVENLY FATHER in belief.
That is my view..........I cannot side step the words received with joy and the fact that the seed SPROUTED
Paul and Apollos
ONE planted, one watered <----WHO causes the SEED to sprout-->NO ROOT equals NO GROWTH, yet the SEED did indeed sprout
a. The first guy which is the MANY and broad road are LOST <---Most go this route
b. The second guy receives the word with joy, is saved but has no spiritual growth and because of no growth will eventually due to circumstance fall away to the world.....
c. The third guy receives the word, is saved, but allows the weeds of the world to choke out his production and the fruit he bears is choked down by the weeds of worldliness
d. The fourth guy receives the word, is saved, grows and matures and produces an abundance......
Within the saved today we can find ALL three
a. Saved with no spiritual growth,remains immature and easily offended
b. Saved yet worldly with choked out growth and crappy fruit
c. Saved, faithful and bearing lots of fruit
I will remind every ONE that ALL three above by faith into the son have done the WORK of the HEAVENLY FATHER in belief.
That is my view..........I cannot side step the words received with joy and the fact that the seed SPROUTED
Paul and Apollos
ONE planted, one watered <----WHO causes the SEED to sprout-->NO ROOT equals NO GROWTH, yet the SEED did indeed sprout
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yes, the Word begins to bear fruit inside someone when they hear and understand it,
but, that does not mean that the fruit will manifest itself outwardly right away.
for example, someone can be a drunk for 20 years, hear and receive the Gospel one day, and never drink again. another can be the same, and hear and believe the Gospel, and struggle for years to beak the addiction. is one more saved than the other? we do not know.
so, you see, if you did not have the judgemental additude you would not be continuing obsessing over how long it takes for the internal Holy Sprit to begin to show outward signs.
but, that does not mean that the fruit will manifest itself outwardly right away.
for example, someone can be a drunk for 20 years, hear and receive the Gospel one day, and never drink again. another can be the same, and hear and believe the Gospel, and struggle for years to beak the addiction. is one more saved than the other? we do not know.
so, you see, if you did not have the judgemental additude you would not be continuing obsessing over how long it takes for the internal Holy Sprit to begin to show outward signs.
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