Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

You and Uncle make good points, if we say that one or two of the groups were saved then lost it, we say they were given conditional life, i think we all agree, the 4th group was given eternal life. This leaves issues with the word. As it is contradictory.

I still say this is resolved by the fact that both the second and third group are also identified in other scriptures as those who have the fruit choked by worldliness and or a lack of growth and maturity........just saying

 

[Goodnewsman]

I was too for 5 years

What if the prodigal son died before he came back, what if i died before i came back, or what if you die before you repented? would we still be the son, or will we be cast out?

we would be lost....just like the rest of those "lost" end up in hell

Jesus said the prodigal son was dead, and lost (Luke 15:24, 32).

notice even Jesus said this son was "lost"

is a dead son and a lost son any better off than no son at all?

James says, "Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins" (5:19-20)

some on here have said "Once born, one can never be unborn." but the logical contradictory of birth is not unbirth, but death.

A child may die. "Adam . . . was the son of God" (Luke 3:38), yet God said, "In the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die" (Gen. 2:17). Of course, false security was offered, even in the Garden, for the serpent assured the woman, "Ye shall not surely die" (Gen. 3:4).

 

[dcontroversal]

Do you believe heretics go to hell?

No thanks pal...I see the way you deceptively embellished what EG said which makes you deceptive.....and a heretic

 

[DOHERETICSFORFEITHEAVEN]

Exactly............people that ask open ended questions incessantly have a motive....and or seeks to try and catch people in some sort of idiotic trap.....

Anyone who is a Christian knows the answer to the question I asked you. We will be praying for you to learn the answer to the question I asked you. I think I know the reason you refuse to answer the question I asked you. I think you are in heresy. People who are not in heresy have no problem answering the question I asked you.

Do you believe heretics go to hell?

 

[dcontroversal]

Thank you, this is what i was asking, and amen

James is talking about a claimed faith, there was no faith, thus no salvation

Rocky soil believe? Where is that? I see stony places, and they only recieved it,

In all fairness.....it is the the same word

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

lambanó: to take, receive
Original Word: λαμβάνω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: lambanó
Phonetic Spelling: (lam-ban'-o)
Definition: to take, receive
Usage: (a) I receive, get, (b) I take, lay hold of.


"The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy

lambanó: to take, receive
Original Word: λαμβάνω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: lambanó
Phonetic Spelling: (lam-ban'-o)
Definition: to take, receive
Usage: (a) I receive, get, (b) I take, lay hold of

 

[dcontroversal]

Anyone who is a Christian knows the answer to the question I asked you. We will be praying for you to learn the answer to the question I asked you. I think I know the reason you refuse to answer the question I asked you. I think you are in heresy. People who are not in heresy have no problem answering the question I asked you.

Save your prayers pal........the bible is clear...ALL believers that have trusted JESUS biblically make the kingdom of GOD, those who die in UNBELIEF into the work of Christ bust hell wide open.....and your incessant idiocy is getting old......

BELIEVERS who are saved throughout the whole word can be identified as heretics by definition of the word INSPIRED by GOD as pointed out by at least 3 people in this thread...

SO......if you have nothing to add to this thread that is of a biblical nature and significant why not go start a thread on your opinion, which by definition makes you a heretic

 

[DOHERETICSFORFEITHEAVEN]

Save your prayers pal........the bible is clear...ALL believers that have trusted JESUS biblically make the kingdom of GOD, those who die in UNBELIEF into the work of Christ bust hell wide open.....and your incessant idiocy is getting old......

BELIEVERS who are saved throughout the whole word can be identified as heretics by definition of the word INSPIRED by GOD as pointed out by at least 3 people in this thread...

SO......if you have nothing to add to this thread that is of a biblical nature and significant why not go start a thread on your opinion, which by definition makes you a heretic

Unbelievers are heretics. dcontroversial just admitted unbelievers who are heretics go to hell. THANK YOU FOR FINALLY ANSWERING! NOW YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE YOU ARE NOT A HERETIC. FOR YOUR SAKE I HOPE YOU ARE NOT.

 

[stonesoffire]

Do you believe heretics go to hell?

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

I believe the first set did...

G139
αἵρεσις
hairesis
Thayer Definition:
1) act of taking, capture: e.g. storming a city
2) choosing, choice
3) that which is chosen
4) a body of men following their own tenets (sect or party)
4a) of the Sadducees
4b) of the Pharisees
4c) of the Christians
5) dissensions arising from diversity of opinions and aims
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G138


Sounds a bit like denominations.

 

[stonesoffire]

Boy I made a mistake in my last post. I read heaven not hell. Automatically. Yes, they did. And by the definition, all who believe into Jesus, His death and resurrection will too regardless of other doctrines. Otherwise no one is saved.

 

[stonesoffire]

Drat! Did it again! No, they didn't! To clarify! The first set labeled as heretics went to heaven. Those who believe Jesus died for all the world including self and rose again from the dead....regardless of other doctrines, go too. Or none of us are saved! Because of the definition.

 

[UnderGrace]

Why is it sad? They receive justice.
If God does not want anyone to perish then there is the solution to any disagreement concerning salvation.
Everyone will be saved because God wants it...that is unless God's desire is dependent on human will?
If that's the case does anyone have a new God I can worship and feel secure in his total control

How is it just that God gives saving faith to some and not others??

 

[Macabeus]

It aint that deep....... this is just a forum online.

BEMA SEAT, really? Hahahaha. Take a deep breath bro, its not that serious.

UMMM...Jesus said we will give an account of EVERY idle word. That would include what we type. I wouldn't mock about it. It shows a lack of reverence.

False accusations like calling someone a liar is VERY SERIOUS

DC and Eternally grateful said I cannot admit when I err. Well, so far I have erred ONE TIME. And I admitted my error. SO they lied.

I made an honest mistake about a post I thought he said show verses that show faith is a gift, but I misread it) and apologized, and repeated my apology I think three times and DC still repeatedly called me a liar, even though I admitted my mistake, even though it is clear from my responses that I was not lying because I was giving verses showing faith as a gift. He knew I did not lie, but made a mistake. Therefore he is a false accuser. He will answer. Note, I am not saying he will lose his salvation if he is saved. But he will give an account for every word he said here, as will I.

We shouldn't be so careless with our words and attitudes, because the judge is at the door, And all of us will give an account. We should keep that in mind when we talk to each other. I am preaching to myself as well as anyone else who acts uncharitably, like not accepting an apology for a mistake, and then continually using that mistake to POISON the Well

 

[CharliRenee]

It is “firm root” not “no root” is bad translation….look it up, as well Jesus in his first rendition makes it clear that it was lack of moisture.

The roots of the new plant strive to reach the lower regions of rich soil in order to draw nutrients and moisture up to the plant leaves. However, once a stone or rocky base blocks the roots from drilling down into the dirt the plant withers in the heat. There isn't enough moisture and the plant soon dies.

The difference is that the seed actually sprouts, because there is some loose soil. The seed swells with moisture as the roots attempt to head downward searching for rich soil and moisture. The plant begins to grow, but finally succumbs to the elements of nature.

If we examine the verse further, it states "but in the time of testing they fall away." Only genuine believers are subject to testing. Only genuine believers possess saving faith to fall away from. Those who never believed possess no faith to test. It is impossible for unsaved person to fall away from something he was never a part of. Because of this, I have to conclude that those who genuinely believe can subsequently fall away.

Jesus is the seed, which is irrevocable and incorruptible.

It depends on the translation, some say firm, some say no but they all say in Himself.

 

[Macabeus]

Took one look, as i opened the thread to see who someone was talking to, and of course, i found this, still trying to defend his mistake and blame shift..

I did not change words, you took what DC said and tried to poke holes in it, and considering dc’s response to the actual question you posed, you are still proven a bearer of false witness (saying DC inferred something he never said)

As you yourself said, changing words and taking someones post is dishonest, so you just judged yourself!

The last thing we will think of at the bema seat are these discussions, but if you want to keep puffing yourself up, and bearing false witness against people. You will soon find out that doing that is sin, although you should know it already.

Either you are lying again, or you do not know the difference between an indicative mood and a subjunctive mood.

DC said "it takes years of growth and maturity to bear fruit. INDICATIVE MODE OR MOOD

you said "it MAY take years to bear fruit. Subjunctive mode or mood

I know you're not so uneducated that you don't know the difference, so YOU ARE LYING

They teach the difference between indicative and subjunctive moods, though they don't use those terms, in EARLY ELEMENTARY SCHOOL

Googe indicative and subjunctive modes or moods.

IT TAKES YEARS TO BEAR FRUIT is an INDICATIVE STATEMENT

IT MAY TAKE YEARS is a SUBJUNCTIVE STATEMENT

I know you know the difference, so STOP LYING

You changed his words.

 

[Macabeus]

AND yes you will give an account to Jesus for the words you type here. If you don't believe that, perhaps that is why you are so CARELESS with your words and attitude

 

[Hevosmies]

I've read your explanations to @Hevosmies

MOM IM FAMOUS!

 

[Hevosmies]

Nothing but a form of religious slavery at the end of the day.............Jesus set us free from that crap.........BELIEVE = ETERNALLY SAVED, JUSTIFIED and SANCTIFIED positionally in CHRIST........

What about those who stop believing with no root? like luke 8:13

They werent eternally saved!

Perhaps they had a dead faith with no repentance!

 

[Hevosmies]

UMMM...Jesus said we will give an account of EVERY idle word. That would include what we type. I wouldn't mock about it. It shows a lack of reverence.

False accusations like calling someone a liar is VERY SERIOUS

DC and Eternally grateful said I cannot admit when I err. Well, so far I have erred ONE TIME. And I admitted my error. SO they lied.

I made an honest mistake about a post I thought he said show verses that show faith is a gift, but I misread it) and apologized, and repeated my apology I think three times and DC still repeatedly called me a liar, even though I admitted my mistake, even though it is clear from my responses that I was not lying because I was giving verses showing faith as a gift. He knew I did not lie, but made a mistake. Therefore he is a false accuser. He will answer. Note, I am not saying he will lose his salvation if he is saved. But he will give an account for every word he said here, as will I.

We shouldn't be so careless with our words and attitudes, because the judge is at the door, And all of us will give an account. We should keep that in mind when we talk to each other. I am preaching to myself as well as anyone else who acts uncharitably, like not accepting an apology for a mistake, and then continually using that mistake to POISON the Well

I apologize bro

MAybe it was a bit careless of me and I dont take internet forums seriously enough. The thing with internet is: You got trolls

 

[dcontroversal]

What about those who stop believing with no root? like luke 8:13

They werent eternally saved!

Perhaps they had a dead faith with no repentance!

No one loses salvation....one is either saved or lost......there is no saved and then lost.........I do not buy what most believe about the parable of the sower and 3 of the 4 being lost......

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

lambanó: to take, receive
Original Word: λαμβάνω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: lambanó
Phonetic Spelling: (lam-ban'-o)
Definition: to take, receive
Usage: (a) I receive, get, (b) I take, lay hold of.


"The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy

lambanó: to take, receive
Original Word: λαμβάνω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: lambanó
Phonetic Spelling: (lam-ban'-o)
Definition: to take, receive
Usage: (a) I receive, get, (b) I take, lay hold of

 

[Macabeus]

You have proven your dishonesty....I could care less what you say and or believe.......the bible is clear.........!!

I have proven either Eternally Grateful's dishonesty or his lack of parsing verbs.

You said it "takes years to bear fruit". indicative statement of fact

He said "I agree with DCON. It MAY take years to bear fruit." subjunctive statement of possibility

Plus he changed the goalpost from being used by God as in a new believer bearing fruit, (which is what the statement meant, meaning demanded BY CONTEXT of the discussion) to non believer being used of God

That is called pulling a quote out of context. A text taken out of context is a pretext.

In addition, he admitted that it doesn't necessarily take years to bear fruit, when he said that God can use a new believer's changed life to draw someone to Him, thereby refuting your statement, because if God uses someone's changed life to draw someone, that IS BEARING FRUIT>

In addition, NOWHERE In the Bible does it say "it takes years of growth and maturity to bear fruit. Strike four.