Not By Works

[mailmandan]

It is not an inconclusive belief that if people shared in the holy spirit they were in a saved state. Look no offence, but if you will not accept what is plainly written in the bible we had better leave it there

I know Christians who believe they were in a saved state in Hebrews 6:4-6, yet hold to the hypothetical view, as discussed in the link to gotquestions. I accept what is plainly written in the Bible in harmony with scripture as a whole. If we interpret every verse in the Bible as it appears to read "on the surface" then we would have multiple contradictions in scripture. James 2:24 immediately comes to mind.

 

[Rosemaryx]

AMEN Rosemary! Wish I could give more than just a "winner" ribbon.

Remember, just because we have received revelation about difficult passages, DESPITE THE ABSOLUTE MOUNTAIN OF SCRIPTURE SUPPORTING THAT GOD WILL NEVER LEAVE US, doesn't mean other less mature Christians have, and the enemy will never stop trying to steal our joy. Using even them against us.

But it's kinda like once you KNOW 2+2 = 4, no one can shake you back to believing 2+2= 5.

Amen brother...
I remember when I was stuck on that verse , no matter how I tried to read the rest of the word , in my head I kept thinking " I can lose my Salvation " I cried so much because the doubt took over , so when I read the promises from God , I thought they were not for me because of the fear I had...
I even got to the point where I did not want to read the bible , but then it was shown to me that the evil one will keep me away from Gods holy word , it was a battle I fought with the help of our Lord , all the glory to Him I say...xox...

 

[unclesilas]

I know Christians who believe they were in a saved state in Hebrews 6:4-6, yet hold to the hypothetical view, as discussed in the link to gotquestions. I accept what is plainly written in the Bible in harmony with scripture as a whole. If we interpret every verse in the Bible as it appears to read "on the surface" then we would have multiple contradictions in scripture. James 2:24 immediately comes to mind.

And I will repeat, the only way you do not end up with contradictions concerning this subject is if you accept things written in the bible are at times written to different types of people/concern different people. Those who made a full commitment to Christ get osas, those who did not may not.

 

[unclesilas]

Its quite easy to know if you are saved, according to the foundation on which the new covenant stands. If you commit wilfull sin, are you conscious of sin in your heart and mind before God by doing so, do you feel bad about such sin, does your conscience hurt you? If yes you are saved

 

[Hevosmies]

This will be my last post on this website. Arguing about God's word is unproductive and sinful, and yes I know that I too am as guilty as anyone God bless to all

Sad to see you go bro! Hopefully you return soon

 

[dcontroversal]

Hey DC, question, instead of doing like some here who assume things, i will ask you flat out, do you believe God can use a new believer? In any form or fashion? Or does god have to wait for a few years? Like said member claims you believe?

I know your answer but certain prideful members can’t handle that because they feel it is their duty to prove you in error, so I will ask for them, so it can be put in writting what you believe.

Sure, he can use anyone and anything he wants to use at any time he wants to use them............and that is one of about three reasons I put him on ignore.....very deceptive and does not listen, but rather just flippantly twists what we say to peddle some moot point.....and if I remember right the context was fruit or works and I said that both are the result of growth and maturity and my cited example has always been proven by nature/creation which TESTIFIES day unto day and night unto night......Just like gardens, trees, rose bushes, corn fields etc........but he ran with what I said and embellished it into something that I did not say....

Even the thief on the cross which was only saved a few hours possibly was used of God to teach us all a lesson in humility and faith.....

10 to 1 that he cannot cut and paste where I verbatim said that GOD cannot use a new born Christian/believer........buy hey......he will find a way to argue this and still say I said something I did not say......whatever

 

[Hevosmies]

They fell away because THEY HAD NO ROOT! JESUS is the root. HE is where we get ALL our sustenance from. These people NEVER had Jesus. Just a false confession of faith. These people were NEVER saved. If you don't have Jesus, our ROOT, you don't have Salvation.

But it says they BELIEVED for a while? So if they believed, they should have Jesus!

But thanks for an explanation bro!

 

[Hevosmies]

You know you just need to give this place a break from time to time, you can go the news section we argue there too but mostly about politics so it is more fun.

I love arguing about politics! Maybe i should drop by!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sure, he can use anyone and anything he wants to use at any time he wants to use them............and that is one of about three reasons I put him on ignore.....very deceptive and does not listen, but rather just flippantly twists what we say to peddle some moot point.....and if I remember right the context was fruit or works and I said that both are the result of growth and maturity and my cited example has always been proven by nature/creation which TESTIFIES day unto day and night unto night......Just like gardens, trees, rose bushes, corn fields etc........but he ran with what I said and embellished it into something that I did not say....

Even the thief on the cross which was only saved a few hours possibly was used of God to teach us all a lesson in humility and faith.....

10 to 1 that he cannot cut and paste where I verbatim said that GOD cannot use a new born Christian/believer........buy hey......he will find a way to argue this and still say I said something I did not say......whatever

Thanks,

Just goes to show, not only was he wrong, but he is just doing as i expected.

 

[Macabeus]

Amen, well put

Sure, he can use anyone and anything he wants to use at any time he wants to use them............and that is one of about three reasons I put him on ignore.....very deceptive and does not listen, but rather just flippantly twists what we say to peddle some moot point.....and if I remember right the context was fruit or works and I said that both are the result of growth and maturity and my cited example has always been proven by nature/creation which TESTIFIES day unto day and night unto night......Just like gardens, trees, rose bushes, corn fields etc........but he ran with what I said and embellished it into something that I did not say....

Even the thief on the cross which was only saved a few hours possibly was used of God to teach us all a lesson in humility and faith.....

10 to 1 that he cannot cut and paste where I verbatim said that GOD cannot use a new born Christian/believer........buy hey......he will find a way to argue this and still say I said something I did not say......whatever

Took my quote out of context, like deceivers do. My quote was made in the CONTEXT of fruit bearing.

A text taken out of context is a pretext.

You said it takes years for a believer to bear fruit. Not might take years, but does

Eg contradicted you by saying a new believer can bear fruit, ie God can use that person's changed life to draw someone to him

That is an example of bearing fruit

You guys are so confused you contradict each other and don't know it. Because your doctrine is built on sand

 

[PennEd]

Just to be extra clear, as you are finding a lot very hard to grasp. There is no need to discuss your 101 verses. I have time and time again told you I accept them for those who made a full commitment to Christ, they will never be lost
Do you understand what I have just written? If not just tell me.

The verses I am quoting relate to people who did not count the true cost of discipleship, they made a shallow commitment. You see, I have a complete bible, not just half a bible

Now that really should not be too hard for you to understand

What you seem unable to grasp is that it is NOT our commitment that saves us. That is a works doctrine pure and simple. Our commitment PROVES that the Lord has indeed made us NEW. Regenerated. A born again Child of the One True King.

And just because you don't like, or understand our answers, doesn't mean we haven't addressed them. Unlike you.

I'll take the rich young ruler question.

Luke 18:18-23 New King James Version (NKJV)
Jesus Counsels the Rich Young Ruler
18 Now a certain ruler asked Him, saying, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”

19 So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good butOne, that is, God. 20 You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’‘Honor your father and your mother.’ ”

21 And he said, “All these things I have kept from my youth.”

22 So when Jesus heard these things, He said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

23 But when he heard this, he became very sorrowful, for he was very rich.

Romans 10:8-10 New King James Version (NKJV)
8 But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

THIS is indeed what the Lord was trying to convey to this young man.

He's nudging him. "Look, you just called me good. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm saying since you KNOW ONLY God is good, what does that make me?"

He continues.Now obviously these aren't Jesus exact words. I'm putting in quotation to understand how the conversation went.

" Ok. you say you have kept ALL the Law your WHOLE life. Well, if that is true, then how can you be so wealthy with all the suffering you see all around you?"

JESUS was the ONLY One who kept the Law perfectly. Jesus is God. Jesus is trying to get this man to see that he needs HIM.

I like Luke's version because he tells us that Jesus LOVED this man. I think this man probably came to the Lord after Jesus' death and resurrection.



Now please address the list.

 

[dcontroversal]

I have to disagree with you ...
When my eyes were opened to the truth of Hebrews 6 , it was like the whole bible came to alive to me once again , and to this day since I got over that block , my heart just sings to my Lord...
I have moved on from there now , but it is a frightful Scripture to those who have tasted the goodness of our Lord but not fully given themselves to Him , it is an awful thing to fall into the hands of our living God...xox...

AMEN......keep swinging Rose.......I can see the growth and maturity and the increasing strength of your stance towards God....

 

[DOHERETICSFORFEITHEAVEN]

Does God even allow a heretic into heaven?

 

[unclesilas]

Took my quote out of context, like deceivers do. My quote was made in the CONTEXT of fruit bearing.

A text taken out of context is a pretext.

You said it takes years for a believer to bear fruit. Not might take years, but does

Eg contradicted you by saying a new believer can bear fruit, ie God can use that person's changed life to draw someone to him

That is an example of bearing fruit

You guys are so confused you contradict each other and don't know it. Because your doctrine is built on sand

Where did I say it took years for a believer to bear fruit?

 

[Macabeus]

Thanks,

Just goes to show, not only was he wrong, but he is just doing as i expected.

Did you know that you refuted DC

It takes years to bear fruit, he said. Indicative state of fact, not a subjunctive "might take years"

You said God can use a new believers changed life to draw someone, you said

So You said a new believer can bear fruit, because what you described is an instance of bearing fruit

Now leave me alone.

 

[Rosemaryx]

But it says they BELIEVED for a while? So if they believed, they should have Jesus!

But thanks for an explanation bro![/QUOTE
James 2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

 

[unclesilas]

What you seem unable to grasp is that it is NOT our commitment that saves us. That is a works doctrine pure and simple. Our commitment PROVES that the Lord has indeed made us NEW. Regenerated. A born again Child of the One True King.

And just because you don't like, or understand our answers, doesn't mean we haven't addressed them. Unlike you.

I'll take the rich young ruler question.

Luke 18:18-23 New King James Version (NKJV)
Jesus Counsels the Rich Young Ruler
18 Now a certain ruler asked Him, saying, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”

19 So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good butOne, that is, God. 20 You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’‘Honor your father and your mother.’ ”

21 And he said, “All these things I have kept from my youth.”

22 So when Jesus heard these things, He said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

23 But when he heard this, he became very sorrowful, for he was very rich.

Romans 10:8-10 New King James Version (NKJV)
8 But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

THIS is indeed what the Lord was trying to convey to this young man.

He's nudging him. "Look, you just called me good. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm saying since you KNOW ONLY God is good, what does that make me?"

He continues.Now obviously these aren't Jesus exact words. I'm putting in quotation to understand how the conversation went.

" Ok. you say you have kept ALL the Law your WHOLE life. Well, if that is true, then how can you be so wealthy with all the suffering you see all around you?"

JESUS was the ONLY One who kept the Law perfectly. Jesus is God. Jesus is trying to get this man to see that he needs HIM.

I like Luke's version because he tells us that Jesus LOVED this man. I think this man probably came to the Lord after Jesus' death and resurrection.



Now please address the list.

I tire of this conversation. You are not as far along the road of maturity as you should be, and you refuse to have one whole bible, just the bits you are content with. That is far from Christian maturity
Bye

 

[Macabeus]

A text taken out of context is a pretext, ie a lie. My claim that your position means God can't use new believers was made in the context of fruit bearing

And EG, you refuted DC when you gave an example of how a new believer often bears fruit

The fruit of a changed life used by God to draw someone. New believer bearing fruit. You said it yourself

Now you will say you didn't say that

 

[Hevosmies]

Amen, i think we have those passages which hindered us, for me it was james 2, and acts 2:38. It really was not fun when you could not give an answer, let alone, answer it for yourself, but when God opens your eyes and you finally see, wow, what an amazing freedom you have been given!

Well said!

Im also struggling to reconcile Acts 2:38 with the rest of the NT!! I have been ever since I read it, I have heard all the greek arguments about the middle-voice and passive-voice and all that, but to me thats just babel, i dont speak greek so its irrelevant to me. I know its translated the same way in every english and other language bible ive ever seen!

What im struggling to reconcile is this:

Matthew 28:19 says to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit
Acts 2:38 says to baptize in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ
PAUL says he "wasnt sent to baptize" well how is that possible? since its part of the great commission!

I will probably die of natural causes until I get a satisfactory answer to Acts 2:38! Its baptismal regeneration through and through, and because of that verse, the churches of Christ exists (and other groups).
And I can never refute them because no matter how much I quote Acts 10 where they get the Spirit BEFORE water baptism, Acts 2:38 still says the same thing.

EDIT: Im reading back my post and im DERAILING the thread again. Oy vey!

 

[Macabeus]

Where did I say it took years for a believer to bear fruit?

I was responding to eg. Sorry