Not By Works

[Goodnewsman]

Lol sorry dude, me saying i can maintain my salvation by being good, or doing good works is no different than they jews saying they were saved by obedience to the law, (where even under law, a sacrifice was always requiree because no one ever kept the law)

Jesus said it is finished (literally paid in full) not i did my work, now you do yours,

Jesus said in john 15, we are already clean by the word, his context was bearing fruit, not being saved.

Stop looking for salvation in everything you read and try to get context, you agai. Will learn much

Okay now that you've told me what you think. Did he or did he not say in John 15 you must abide in the Vine?

 

[Macabeus]

here is why I call you a legalist- I have repeatedly agreed with you that Christians are supposed to be doing good works, yet because I am not word-for-word agreeing with you, you continue to argue.

that is what legalist do- micro-manage how to be a Christian.

Maybe I'm defensive because I've been repeatedly called a liar, a deceiver, a scripture twister, etc. Sorry I mistook you from the plethora of JUDGEMENTAL people around here.

OH... that's right. You called me a deceiver, a liar, and a legalist right off the bat...my mistake

You called me a deceiver back in the post you didnt follow what I was saying. SO pardon me if being called a deceiver once and a legalist more than once makes me think that you don't agree with me.

 

[Goodnewsman]

Funny thing is, thats what i had for lunch..lol


But Sorry man, i came from where you stand, and i saw the damage it did to so many people, and the hoplessness it brouht people to, myself included, so i have a passion against this false understanding of the grace of God.

LOL that is funny
The Bible says iron sharpens iron I appreciate the back and forth and I appreciate your passion and sincerity I just think you're sincerely wrong as I'm sure you feel the same towards me

Now that that is over with shall we put the gloves back on. LOL

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Okay now that you've told me what you think. Did he or did he not say in John 15 you must abide in the Vine?

YES, IF WE WANT TO PRODUCE FRUIT, but again, jesus made it clear in the same passage, YOUR CLEAN by the word.

Do you understand the difference from being born again, (being made clean) and producing fruit?

John 15 is talking about sanctification, but even he said we were already justifed (made clean)

We should not mix justification and sanctification, as hebrews said, he has perfected forever those being sanctified.

Those who produce fruit, reap reward, gold silver precious stone, those who do not suffer loss, but even they are saved, even as through fire (1 cor 12] salvation is a gift, not a reward.

 

[Macabeus]

The only way John Calvin could have said LESS is if would have said more his false teachings and those who preach it has sent more people to hell from a church pew than all others combined.
There is one thing worse than no security and that is false security

I say stick with the scriptures and leave those common taters (lol)
On the shelf especially those close to being Catholic and baptized babies

I can probably name Christian teachers for all denominations that are orthodox that will agree with what I have been saying. My point is, if I am a deceiver and a scripture twister, then you are calling all these men I am going to cite deceivers and scripture twisters. And I have a feeling that non Calvinists, Baptists, Pentecostals, non denominational, and a host of others will be represented.

Because my interpretation of Ephesians 2:10 is based on fundamental rules of exegesis.

I probably won't post them all until tommorow night, because I do have internet, but it is limited and I can't get to all my resources. This is not my computer, so I am not going to do a lot of surfing, it's not always safe. I will wait till I have my own computer.

 

[unclesilas]

Oh he did?

Did paul over rule jesus who said all manner of sin and blasphemy WILL be forgiven men?

Why do you think your sin does not stink?

No Paul did not overrule Jesus, Jesus gave warnings too. Possibly you don't like Paul's message, or are just selective as to what you accept of it. It is quite plainly written. Paul warns Christians that certain behaviour will bar them from the kingdom of heaven. Of course, if you think Paul preached a false message that is your entitlement but I would not advise such thinking

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Actually, I have only, thus far found one person who studies the greek who understood the true message. In my view, the Holy Spirit does not rely on you reading the Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic translations in order to fully understand the message, neither does he rely on you reading concordances such as strongs. He is quite capable of teaching you what you need to know without all of that. You get much further if you kneel and ask God to reveal truth to you as you read the bible, rely on him, nothing more. Then a reputable English translation will do, nothing more needed

We still should study to show ourselves approved, some english words do not mean the same as they even did in 1600’s when it was first interpreted, one should not just leave things unchecked, you can pray to god, but even satan comes as an angel of light, the voice you hear may not be god,, for me, it is not worth leaving things to chance.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

LOL that is funny
The Bible says iron sharpens iron I appreciate the back and forth and I appreciate your passion and sincerity I just think you're sincerely wrong as I'm sure you feel the same towards me

Now that that is over with shall we put the gloves back on. LOL

I have to thank a good friend for putting his gloves on and hitting me with all he had, or i would still be a depressed christian who did not understand who and what god was. And most likely still a prodigal.

 

[Macabeus]

So that is where these ideas coming from , on second thought I am not surprised

Works are not part of grace, they are because of grace!!

Perservance of the saints is not in the scripture.

Saints to not always persevere.

Don't worry. It's not only Calvin that teaches this. Most Non Calvinists agree that there is no good thing, including works, that we did not receive freely from God and that NOTHING is of ourselves, therefore there is no grounds for boasting, as I will show when I can get to sources.

I can't believe people who call themselves Christians don't believe this.

Perserverance= They went out from us that it might be made manifest that they were not all of us. Somewhere 1 John 2:19

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No Paul did not overrule Jesus, Jesus gave warnings too. Possibly you don't like Paul's message, or are just selective as to what you accept of it. It is quite plainly written. Paul warns Christians that certain behaviour will bar them from the kingdom of heaven. Of course, if you think Paul preached a false message that is your entitlement but I would not advise such thinking

Jesus never warned people that they could lose salvation,

As for your response. Here is the verse

Mark 3: 28 “Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; 29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”— 30 because they said, “He has an unclean spirit.”

Can you show me where jesus said might be forgiven?

 

[unclesilas]

Jesus never warned people that they could lose salvation,

As for your response. Here is the verse

Mark 3: 28 “Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; 29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”— 30 because they said, “He has an unclean spirit.”

Can you show me where jesus said might be forgiven?

And you think Galatians 5:19-21 contradicts Mark3:28?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Jesus never warned people that they could lose salvation,

As for your response. Here is the verse

Mark 3: 28 “Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; 29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”— 30 because they said, “He has an unclean spirit.”

Can you show me where jesus said might be forgiven?

Glad to see some brothers still fighting for truth... God bless you

 

[unclesilas]

Glad to see some brothers still fighting for truth... God bless you

So Mark 3:28 refers to living a sinfull lifestyle?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

My bible says NOTHING can

amen

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And you think Galatians 5:19-21 contradicts Mark3:28?

Nope, just your Interpretation.

As john said, children of god do not live in sin, and even paul said, such Were some of you, but uou were washed justified and sanctified.

Either way did jesus lie? Why did you not answer my question? Did jesus said might be forgive or will be forgiven?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Glad to see some brothers still fighting for truth... God bless you

You too bro

 

[unclesilas]

Nope, just your Interpretation.

As john said, children of god do not live in sin, and even paul said, such Were some of you, but uou were washed justified and sanctified.

Either way did jesus lie? Why did you not answer my question? Did jesus said might be forgive or will be forgiven?

Try and discern scripture, and bring it into alignment, not contradiction. Any sin of man will be forgiven, absolutely. Any sin you can commit will be forgiven if you seek forgiveness of it. That is not the same as living a sinfull lifestyle:
The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. Gal5:19-21
Of course you can do gymnastics with what is plainly written if you choose to, many do, or you can try and bring the bible into contradiction with itself.

 

[Goodnewsman]

YES, IF WE WANT TO PRODUCE FRUIT, but again, jesus made it clear in the same passage, YOUR CLEAN by the word.

Do you understand the difference from being born again, (being made clean) and producing fruit?

John 15 is talking about sanctification, but even he said we were already justifed (made clean)

We should not mix justification and sanctification, as hebrews said, he has perfected forever those being sanctified.

Those who produce fruit, reap reward, gold silver precious stone, those who do not suffer loss, but even they are saved, even as through fire (1 cor 12] salvation is a gift, not a reward.

Imediatley after saying you are clean through the word he then says Abide in me
All through the chapter he says ....abide in me.....If you keep my commandments.....if ye do whatsoever I command you ECT...

How can I possibly be saved if I do not abide in Him???

Acts 5 ananias and his wife found out real quick when they lied to the Holy ghost

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Try and discern scripture, and bring it into alignment, not contradiction. Any sin of man will be forgiven, absolutely. Any sin you can commit will be forgiven if you seek forgiveness of it. That is not the same as living a sinfull lifestyle:
The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. Gal5:19-21
Of course you can do gymnastics with what is plainly written if you choose to, many do, or you can try and bring the bible into contradiction with itself.

Jesus did not say if you ask forgiveness, you just added to jesus words,

Again, did jesis say they WILL be forgiven men, or might

Stick to what we are talking about, you all iver the place.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Imediatley after saying you are clean through the word he then says Abide in me
All through the chapter he says ....abide in me.....If you keep my commandments.....if ye do whatsoever I command you ECT...

How can I possibly be saved if I do not abide in Him???

Acts 5 ananias and his wife found out real quick when they lied to the Holy ghost

Abide in me and what.. you will produce fruit.

It is about fruit bearing, not earning salvation

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