I'm leaving here. If you want to speak to me you know where to find me.
I'm shocked that you've been on this thread. TTYTT.
You don't belong here. Your above post proves it.
God bless you Bill.
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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I'm shocked that you've been on this thread. TTYTT.
You don't belong here. Your above post proves it.
God bless you Bill.
I understand that the crown of life can be lost by being offended, but that it dosent mean these end up in the lake of fire these would remain as babes who did not grow up and are saved through the fire, just like the Lord promised to Israel, that now it applies to the whole world. I woke up with better understanding of this today and felt I should come back and testify
S,
The crown of life is salvation.
Jesus did not die on that cross to give us crowns....although we get those too once in heaven.
He came here to teach us how to save our soul.
I'm not here to judge anyone...as I've been judged.
However, there is much scripture on how we are to behave and love our neighbor.
The bible is clear for those who desire to see God after death.
Those who love God go to be with God,
The others go to be without God -- I don't claim to know where that is.
See you around.
Do what you feel is right.
At the end of the day it boils down to --->When I see the blood I will pas over you and after one has been saved....where sin abounds, grace abounds the more.....
Bill, you know that none of us teach to live like the devil and none of us teach to never do anything for God or to not bear fruit or do works.....this whole thread is about biblical salvation and how one is GIFTED the free, irrevocable gift of eternal life by faith with NO strings attached to GAIN eternal life other than FAITH......
Even though you adressed this to truthtalk I'll try a couple of these!
1.
Matthew 10:22
22“You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved. "
The true believer endures to the end. Perseverence of the saints!
2.
Hebrews 10:26-27
26For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries.
Dont know
3.
2 Peter 2:20-22
20For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
21For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.
22It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT,” and, “A sow, after washing, returnsto wallowing in the mire.”
Talking about false-prophets this one, not born again believers.
4.
John 8:31
31So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; "
Descriptive of a born again believer, not prescriptive.
5.
John 15:6
6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. "
Descriptive of a born again believer, not prescriptive.
6.
Matthew 5:13
13“You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men. "
This is a tough one, almost impossible for me to explain, perhaps someone else will try it? This one implies it was salty PREVIOUSLY but then BECAME tasteless. Not that it never was salt
to begin with. Oy vey!7.
Romans 11:22
22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
Descriptive of a born again believer, not prescriptive.
8.
Colossians 1:22-23
22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— 23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.
Descriptive of a born again believer, not prescriptive.
9.
1 Corinthians 9:27
27but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.
Dont know
10.
2 Peter 3:17
17You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness,
True warning, dont be deceived!
11.
1 John 2:24
24As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.
Descriptive of a born again believer, not prescriptive.
12.
Mathew 7:19
19“Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire."
Descriptive of a born again believer, not prescriptive.
13.
Luke 9:62
62But Jesus said to him, “No one, after putting his hand to the plow and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.”
Tough one again, because this again has one putting the hand on the plow and THEN looking back. Believed for a while then fell away, like in that parable. No root. My guess would be: Faking for a while, then apostates. "They went out from us but were not of us"
14.
1 Corinthians 15:1-2
1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand,
2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
Well obviously you got to believe the gospel to be saved. Anyone who denies that is a heretic and most likely unsaved themselves. If you dont believe the gospel, well thats game over.
Oy vey! Lucky for me im not signing up for a pastor's office anytime soon! I'll be a regular pew Christian just yapping in the background. UNLESS OF COURSE, the Lord calls me to something or the other.
The bolded is as wrong as can be.....teach US how to SAVE our SOUL..........we save NOTHING....JESUS does the saving
The underlined is false and deceptive....not very honest at all Fran <---we judge your false gospel.....and that is biblical
In the verse "Jesus is the saviour of all men, especially of them that believe." there is a between the salvation of believers and unbelievers by the word believe, meaning followers doing the work of God. Jesus Said he will reward everyone according to their work. but the Salvation is a gift and those who remain in Him will suffer with Him and rule with Him and have the crown of eternal life.
Please read post no. 83,587 by @Budman ....
Blue said the same thing.
THIS is what you're teaching.
This is what you state brings persons to....the almost sure loss of their salvation.
Paul said that in the last days some will FALL AWAY from the faith (again proving OSAS is WRONG)
paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.
1 Timothy 4:1
It is demonic for anyone on this thread to state that it is NOT NECESSARY to obey Jesus who hung on a cross for us.
It is demonic for anyone to say that Jesus DID IT ALL and we have NOTHING TO DO.
The N.T. is replete with verses that state what we are to do and how we are to behave....most of them coming from Jesus Himself....the same Jesus that died for everyone here.
It is demonic to say that we could do what we want to, live how we want to, mistreat our fellow brothers in Christ, and still go to be with God.
Nothing unclean will enter into heaven...only those whose names are written in the Lambs Book of Life.
Revelation 21:27
He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments and Jesus will not blot out his name from the Book of Life..and Jesus will confess HIS name before the Father.
Revelation 3:6
Nevertheless, what we have, we are to hold firm until the end.
Revelation 2:25
He who overcomes and he who keeps Jesus' deeds until the end, to HIM will Jesus give authority over the nations.
Revelation 2:26
He who has an ear. let him hear.
Revelation 2:29
"Save yourselves from this untoward jeneration."
untoward generation: not towards God
/
I have already answered this numerous times. The answer is no. The answer to "do I believe in multiple regenerations" is NO. The answer to the question of do good works save us or are they necessary to retain our salvation, the answer is no.
Does the prodigal son represent a backslidden Christian? NOT IN THE ORIGINAL MEANING AND INTENT OF THE PARABLE. This is where you massively failed in your arguments.
Do the second son in the parable of the two sons in Matthew 21 represent backslidden Christians? NO.
Will a saved person continue living in whoremongering and sorcery and willful disobedience till the day they die? No
Was such an unrepentant person who lives in harlotry, sorcery, adultery, and unrestrained wickedness ever saved? I'll leave that one for you, since you think a person can die in a state like the prodigal, lived a dissolute lifestyle and go to heaven. The Bible says that such will not inherit the kingdom
I have already answered this numerous times. The answer is no. The answer to "do I believe in multiple regenerations" is NO. The answer to the question of do good works save us or are they necessary to retain our salvation, the answer is no.
Does the prodigal son represent a backslidden Christian? NOT IN THE ORIGINAL MEANING AND INTENT OF THE PARABLE. This is where you massively failed in your arguments.
Do the second son in the parable of the two sons in Matthew 21 represent backslidden Christians? NO.
Will a saved person continue living in whoremongering and sorcery and willful disobedience till the day they die? No
Was such an unrepentant person who lives in harlotry, sorcery, adultery, and unrestrained wickedness ever saved? I'll leave that one for you, since you think a person can die in a state like the prodigal, lived a dissolute lifestyle and go to heaven. The Bible says that such will not inherit the kingdom
Nothing you say has value with me Fran.....the reasons are simple....
A. You conflate salvation/justification with ongoing sanctification
b. You reject verb tense
c. You reject context
d. You deceptively say that we do not post scripture
e. You embellish what we say
f. You embellish the bible
g. You conflate descriptive and prescriptive texts
h. You pit the bible against the bible by ignoring plain verbiage
i. ETC....
Make no mistake....the bible does not teach a losable salvation...it does teach a LOSS of reward, it does teach chastisement for the children of the King due to disobedience, it does teach that on occasion God takes out his children if they refuse to serve.....IT DOES NOT TEACH that we we lose our salvation and get cast into hell....
Even in the above verses you cite you take most out of context to teach what you have peddled here from day one.....and it does not equate to truth......
DCONTROVERSIAL, SINCE YOU FALSELY ACCUSED ME OF DISHONESTY, WHEN I IN FACT DID ANSWER YOUR QUESTION TWO DAYS AGO, WHY DON'T YOU BE HONEST AND ANSWER THE QUESTION YOU'VE BEEN AVOIDING FOR DAYS. WHO DID THE SECOND SON IN THE PARABLE OF THE TWO SONS IN MATTHEW 21 REPRESENT? DID THAT SON REPRESENT BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS?
LOLEven though you adressed this to truthtalk I'll try a couple of these!
1.
Matthew 10:22
22“You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved. "
The true believer endures to the end. Perseverence of the saints!
2.
Hebrews 10:26-27
26For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries.
Dont know
3.
2 Peter 2:20-22
20For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
21For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.
22It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT,” and, “A sow, after washing, returnsto wallowing in the mire.”
Talking about false-prophets this one, not born again believers.
4.
John 8:31
31So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; "
Descriptive of a born again believer, not prescriptive.
5.
John 15:6
6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. "
Descriptive of a born again believer, not prescriptive.
6.
Matthew 5:13
13“You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men. "
This is a tough one, almost impossible for me to explain, perhaps someone else will try it? This one implies it was salty PREVIOUSLY but then BECAME tasteless. Not that it never was salt
7.
Romans 11:22
22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
Descriptive of a born again believer, not prescriptive.
8.
Colossians 1:22-23
22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— 23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.
Descriptive of a born again believer, not prescriptive.
9.
1 Corinthians 9:27
27but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.
Dont know
10.
2 Peter 3:17
17You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness,
True warning, dont be deceived!
11.
1 John 2:24
24As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.
Descriptive of a born again believer, not prescriptive.
12.
Mathew 7:19
19“Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire."
Descriptive of a born again believer, not prescriptive.
13.
Luke 9:62
62But Jesus said to him, “No one, after putting his hand to the plow and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.”
Tough one again, because this again has one putting the hand on the plow and THEN looking back. Believed for a while then fell away, like in that parable. No root. My guess would be: Faking for a while, then apostates. "They went out from us but were not of us"
14.
1 Corinthians 15:1-2
1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand,
2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
Well obviously you got to believe the gospel to be saved. Anyone who denies that is a heretic and most likely unsaved themselves. If you dont believe the gospel, well thats game over.
Oy vey! Lucky for me im not signing up for a pastor's office anytime soon! I'll be a regular pew Christian just yapping in the background. UNLESS OF COURSE, the Lord calls me to something or the other.
This is funny H.
I really want Truthtalk to answer since he's so full of sarcasm and hatred toward his brothers in Christ.
Your answers are not valid.
Where is the word descriptive and prescriptive in scripture?
I understand what this means,,,it was made up by men who cannot accept loss of faith as the bible clearly teaches.
I do want to say that John's gospel where he says that Jesus said IF THEY WERE WITH US THEY WOULD HAVE STAYED WITH US,,, do you realize that John was very concerned with the gnostics of that time and that he meant the GNOSTICS? They were truly not born again believers.
As to 1 Corinthians 15:1-2 ... if you notice Paul says IN WHICH YOU ARE SAVED IF YOU HOLD FAST THE WORD.....
If Paul is telling us to HOLD FAST,,,,he means that it's possible to LET GO.
The N.T. must be read with an open mind,,,n ot with preconceived notions.
You're an intelligent and honest person....
DO THIS!!!
Don't depend on anyone for your salvation.
Yep...directed at immersion which identifies with Christ and disassociates one from the generation he is in that is perishing....compared to the flood of Noah's day
DCONTROVERSIAL, SINCE YOU FALSELY ACCUSED ME OF DISHONESTY, WHEN I IN FACT DID ANSWER YOUR QUESTION TWO DAYS AGO, WHY DON'T YOU BE HONEST AND ANSWER THE QUESTION YOU'VE BEEN AVOIDING FOR DAYS. WHO DID THE SECOND SON IN THE PARABLE OF THE TWO SONS IN MATTHEW 21 REPRESENT? DID THAT SON REPRESENT BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS?
The question as to whether a born again son could stop being a son is a silly question.
1. Children can be disowned and disinherited because of their bad behavior.
2. It's OK to use earthly ideas to HELP us to understand heavenly ideas,,,,but it's not correct to actually apply our ideas to God's. God is not understandable...if we understood Him, we'd be on HIS level.
Another worldly example that falls short....
A son by birth will always be a son by birth......NOTHING can change that and the gifts and calling of God are IRREVOCABLE.......you obviously do not care to understand that word and or just flat reject it because you are too proud to accept the truth