Praying in Tongues

[Noose]

Not in the sense of the idiom, no.

Every other use of "edify" or related words (edifies, etc.) is positive. Instead of assuming the positive meaning, you (and many others) impose the negative idiomatic meaning of "self-edification" onto the text. Paul didn't use an idiom in that verse, so taking the meaning of an English idiom and imposing it on the translation of a Greek sentence is flawed.

I know it is negative because of the chapters and verses before and after it.

1 Cor 12 - we see that gifts are to benefit all and Paul tries to draw a correlation of how different body parts work for the common good of the whole body and not self.

1 Cor 13 - Paul draws us to the attention of love, so clearly, all gifts have their source in love and one thing about love is that it is not self seeking, it is always about others and not self.

1 Cor 14:1 - Paul starts his argument about a wrong in Corinth he wrote to correct by telling them to follow the way of love, meaning that even as they pursue the gifts of the Holy spirit, they should be thinking about others rather than self.
There's no way therefore, the self edification spoken of in 1 Cor 14 could be positive otherwise Paul would be contradicting himself.

Immediately after that, Paul has a lengthy explanation of how to use tongues and at the same time express love - it is to edify others with your tongue and if one is not going to that, they should keep quiet. He says keep quiet if it is not for others, he doesn't say go and pray for yourself.

 

[Dino246]

I know it is negative because of the chapters and verses before and after it.

1 Cor 12 - we see that gifts are to benefit all and Paul tries to draw a correlation of how different body parts work for the common good of the whole body and not self.

1 Cor 13 - Paul draws us to the attention of love, so clearly, all gifts have their source in love and one thing about love is that it is not self seeking, it is always about others and not self.

1 Cor 14:1 - Paul starts his argument about a wrong in Corinth he wrote to correct by telling them to follow the way of love, meaning that even as they pursue the gifts of the Holy spirit, they should be thinking about others rather than self.
There's no way therefore, the self edification spoken of in 1 Cor 14 could be positive otherwise Paul would be contradicting himself.

Immediately after that, Paul has a lengthy explanation of how to use tongues and at the same time express love - it is to edify others with your tongue and if one is not going to that, they should keep quiet. He says keep quiet if it is not for others, he doesn't say go and pray for yourself.

You're welcome to your view; I don't agree with it. Perhaps we need to leave it at that. Neither of us is going to convince the other.

 

[Hevosmies]

We read in Revelation a woman dressed in stars and the sun and the moon under her feet. A seven headed dragon slashing a third of the stars - and you say these are things that you'll see with your eyes?!

Matt 26:
63But Jesus remained silent.
The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.”

64“You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.” e

Q. Did those in the court room see the son of man coming with clouds of heaven or Jesus lied (God forbid)?

NO i never claimed such a thing

Again another problem of either its all symbolic or its all literal.

The symbolism is CLEARLY EXPLAIEND of the stars sun and the moon in the book itself.

Its talking about Israel, Joseph's dream! Check it out

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Edify means building up and in the spiritual sense, building up only comes with understanding and no other means.

Self edification is self seeking when it comes to gifts because gifts are meant to build all in the same way different body parts work together in the body. If the whole body were an eye, how would you listen?

If for edification of others, you must have your tongue interpreted for their understanding, how can one claim self edification if they don't understand what they are saying? if it is possible to build yourself up without any understanding, then it is also possible to build others without their understanding - 1 Cor 14 says no.

Your error is thinking that the gift of tongue means meaningless words, no, it was a language.

man that is so boring

how does the meaning change to suit you?

it means the same thing, the entire time. a person is edified...their understanding is opened up. the Bible does not even say to go and self edify which is nonsense, because without the Holy Spirit, you end up using your limited human understanding

you should get that.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Edify doesn't mean lack of love, true but self means, don't consider others which means no love (love of self is not love at all). Putting self and edification together means lack of love and therefore no presence of God.

You have to get what Paul is saying:

1 Cor 14:1 Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy ..

1 Cor 13:4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, ...

How is self edification not self seeking??

you know all about self edification already. you decide what part of scripture is true and either ignore or twist the rest

however when the Holy Spirit edifies, your understanding is expanded

you have it all wrong because you do not accept that God has not taken any gifts back and you are making less and less sense

you said English is not your first language and you are not a good communicator

so, I will accept that as true because it would certainly go towards explaining your very bad understanding of what scripture states regarding edification.

again, there has been no love shown by the anti tongues crowd in this thread but an awful lot of tooting your own horn, mocking and twisting and refusing to answer posts from others who point out your error

it's past boring but at the same time, the way you twist things, I would not like someone to think that is what scripture or anyone here is actually saying. that's the only reason I bother to answer you at all

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Assyria is the rod of God's anger. There's nothing that Assyria does that God has not permitted; but God also punishes Assyria after using them to accomplish His will.

Job. My version says satan asked for permission
Ananias. My version says God struck them dead

oh that's so silly

you have utterly changed what you said regarding harvesting angels and have somehow tried to wedge Assyria into the vacancy

what does Assyria have to do with praying in tongues?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

How did the interpretation work? Did you have to pray and ask for the interpretation and then words came in your mind in English? I read that one who speaks in tongues should pray that he interprets but I don't know what it is like to interpret any tongues because I never have done that.

I never prayed to interpret but often when I pray or sing, I will change to English and it is different than when you simply start to pray in whatever language you speak

I could say alot about it, but the mockers here don't need more to sneer about. they harm themselves every time they do that

they take something precious and try to destroy it and discourage others from seeking God

 

[Noose]

NO i never claimed such a thing

Again another problem of either its all symbolic or its all literal.

The symbolism is CLEARLY EXPLAIEND of the stars sun and the moon in the book itself.

Its talking about Israel, Joseph's dream! Check it out

1. I know it is symbolic for the reasons i have given you; one being that Jesus Himself said that everything will be normal and people will be making merry.

2. Jesus said immediately after those days of tribulation, the sun/moon/stars will stop giving their light. What is the connection between people's suffering and the physical sun/moon/stars? unless He was talking about the people themselves.

3. You have not addressed Matt 26. You claim that everyone will SEE Jesus coming with clouds of heaven but when Jesus was being charged, He said those in the courtroom will from that moment SEE the son of man coming with the clouds of heaven, did Jesus lie (God forbid)?

 

[Noose]

man that is so boring

how does the meaning change to suit you?

it means the same thing, the entire time. a person is edified...their understanding is opened up. the Bible does not even say to go and self edify which is nonsense, because without the Holy Spirit, you end up using your limited human understanding

you should get that.

Yes. Edification is understanding, without understanding, there's no edification. So how can someone claim to speak words they don't understand and also claim self edification?
If meaningless words can edify someone, then also using the same process, others should be edified by the meaningless words, but we know that is impossible.

 

[Noose]

you know all about self edification already. you decide what part of scripture is true and either ignore or twist the rest

however when the Holy Spirit edifies, your understanding is expanded

you have it all wrong because you do not accept that God has not taken any gifts back and you are making less and less sense

you said English is not your first language and you are not a good communicator

so, I will accept that as true because it would certainly go towards explaining your very bad understanding of what scripture states regarding edification.

again, there has been no love shown by the anti tongues crowd in this thread but an awful lot of tooting your own horn, mocking and twisting and refusing to answer posts from others who point out your error

it's past boring but at the same time, the way you twist things, I would not like someone to think that is what scripture or anyone here is actually saying. that's the only reason I bother to answer you at all

Nope. Understanding comes first, you can't say edification and then understanding comes later, it is the understanding that builds up. The reason tongues are to be interpreted is not that the hearers are edified and only waiting for understanding, it is for their understanding and that understanding builds them.

Very poor understanding from you, it is even worse when you claim to be proficient in English.

 

[Noose]

oh that's so silly

you have utterly changed what you said regarding harvesting angels and have somehow tried to wedge Assyria into the vacancy

what does Assyria have to do with praying in tongues?

The person it was intended for, knows exactly what i mean.

 

[CS1]

You’re totally missing the point –

What people are producing today is not supernatural in origin. In fact, it has nothing to do with what the Bible calls ‘tongues’. You’re trying to equate apples to oranges. They’re two totally different things entirely.

Do the special gifts of healing, wisdom, languages, prophesy, etc. still exist today? Yes, I believe they do, but I don’t believe they are inherent to one specific religious belief/spiritual path.

Can these special gifts be called ‘supernatural’? I would say it may depend on the context in which they are manifested, but in general, yes, I believe that term to be accurate. It’s a matter of how one defines “supernatural” I suppose. For example, your heart beats, but you don’t consciously do this. It just miraculously seems to happen. Is the fact that your heart beats like this, i.e. beyond your conscious control, supernatural?

To reiterate what I’ve said in the past, I am neither a so-called ‘cessationist’ nor a ‘continuationist’ – I do not identify with either term; in fact, I had never heard the two terms until just late in 2016. Cessationist vs, non-cessationist is a bit of a false dichotomy; gifts ceasing is mentioned only once in one short sentence and the remainder of the Bible is totally silent on the matter. The one place it is mentioned is rarely taken into context of the entire passage. As far as I’m concerned, quite frankly, since the Biblical reference of “tongues” is to real, rational languages, obviously “tongues” haven’t “ceased”; people still speak.

they are supernatural because God is doing them. come on, really? the context is GOD is doing it period that makes it supernatural, either God did it or not. sad when human reasoning the gifts re supernatural if God is doing them the Context of 1cor 12 IS the Holy Spirit is enabling one to do BY the Spirit, the Same Spirit, different gifts operation, and manifestation Same Spirit . all chapter of 12 says this.

 

[Waggles]

In the end when all is posted and done … gibberish works!
God perfectly understands my gibberish and answers my prayers.

 

[Noose]

In the end when all is posted and done … gibberish works!
God perfectly understands my gibberish and answers my prayers.

But i don't understand your gibberish so how is that love?
You can only love God by loving others first.

 

[yellowcanary]

I never prayed to interpret but often when I pray or sing, I will change to English and it is different than when you simply start to pray in whatever language you speak

I could say alot about it, but the mockers here don't need more to sneer about. they harm themselves every time they do that

they take something precious and try to destroy it and discourage others from seeking God

1 Corinthians 14

12 So with yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church.
13 Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray that he/she may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. 15 What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also.

This wouldn't be boring, would it ? Translating to all the very words that God is saying thru His Spirit when one is speaking their heavenly language ? But it does carry a tremendous responsibility, undoubtedly. Who'd dare risk being wrong on such a grave matter ? Nevertheless, this is what Paul has instructed. Use the same faith and assurance that you had and expressed earlier when you first prayed for the gift of tongues and avail that which is greater ... that being the gift of interpretation. On that note, I rarely, if ever, see anybody claiming the gift of interpretation. My cynical side suggests to me that the grave consequences of claiming to speak for God might have something to do with this. Can't say I blame them ... the consequences would be daunting.

 

[Dino246]

But i don't understand your gibberish so how is that love?
You can only love God by loving others first.

Where do you get this idea (in bold)? It doesn't jibe with Jesus' own words: that "Love the Lord your God" is the first commandment, and "Love your neighbour as yourself" is the second.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Yes. Edification is understanding, without understanding, there's no edification. So how can someone claim to speak words they don't understand and also claim self edification?
If meaningless words can edify someone, then also using the same process, others should be edified by the meaningless words, but we know that is impossible.

hmmm...well maybe this will help

how can someone claim they know all about tongues...like yourself...yet they do not believe in that gift for today, do not accept it, have not actually studied it as the posts they make aptly illustrate, therefore they cannot practice it let alone know whether or not it is real, are not edified as the scripture proclaims...yet....they desire to educate people who do not what they are talking about and dissuade others from seek God in this matter

this post of yours is an excellent example of someone who does not have a clue what is actually written in scripture, refuses to admit what is written when someone posts the scripture that applies and yet rattles on and on and on about their own opinion which is not an edified opinion and certainly not an edifying opinion

so do you see what I am getting at? you leave all the verses that describe how the gift works and what it is for on the cutting room floor of your imagination.

I would advise anyone who is actually desirous of what scripture states to search them as the word itself says that we should

God is not a second hand experience and neither is the gift of tongues

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Nope. Understanding comes first, you can't say edification and then understanding comes later, it is the understanding that builds up. The reason tongues are to be interpreted is not that the hearers are edified and only waiting for understanding, it is for their understanding and that understanding builds them.

Very poor understanding from you, it is even worse when you claim to be proficient in English.

I had chickens a few years back and at least when they squawked, I knew they would produce an egg

with all your squawking, you produce nothing anyone can take as fact

 

[CS1]

But i don't understand your gibberish so how is that love?
You can only love God by loving others first.

been listening to your attacks since the thread started to ask your self "how is this love". lol

 

[CS1]

But i don't understand your gibberish so how is that love?
You can only love God by loving others first.

you equate loving God as adhering to your understanding as if you are some kind of teacher sent by God.