God LIED!

[eternally-gratefull]

dcontroversal - its really great that you are assuring others of their salvation. I will also be happy when i have to tell someone about the gospel that if they believe in Jesus they are saved and that's it , the end , no need to add or subtract anything from that. It is finished...instead of saying - "Hey , Jesus died for you BUT...hmm...you are on your own now...figure out how to get entry into heaven ...because it seems even if u believe in Him as Jesus asked us to...it seems.. the righteous are scarcely saved.....and i don't know the definition of righteous either..uhh..uhh uhhh...."black out.. ...load burden on others and never pick a single load myself.
BUT
I would really be happy if i could learn from Jesus how to live like Him...and have all the joy and peace only He can give. I would be happy to live a life with all burdens loaded on His shoulders ...satisfied , knowing what am doing and having purpose in every action , everything i do and to feel His presence with me 24 hrs and to have a relationship with Him....to be in His reality...to surrender each move and day completely to Him and let Him be on the driver's seat and me sitting behind watching what He does through my body...to have all the fantastic joy that He can give...heavenly , pure , that quenches the thirst within me.....that ends my search ... that makes me wanna pull others to show them - HIM.....to see astonishment in their faces...to see how God changes lives....the abundant life!....the true meaning....Abba Father...I love You ...I love You .....

Both points are great, the second part happens when we are discipled, either peer to peer or mature - baby discipleship. Because no one should try that alone, satan is to strong and has a huge army and he will do what he can to orevent you from maturing, you can not try to be sanctified by just going to church a few times a week and listening to some sermon and si ging some songs of worship. This is where most churches fail their people

 

[dcontroversal]

dcontroversal - its really great that you are assuring others of their salvation. I will also be happy when i have to tell someone about the gospel that if they believe in Jesus they are saved and that's it , the end , no need to add or subtract anything from that. It is finished...instead of saying - "Hey , Jesus died for you BUT...hmm...you are on your own now...figure out how to get entry into heaven ...because it seems even if u believe in Him as Jesus asked us to...it seems.. the righteous are scarcely saved.....and i don't know the definition of righteous either..uhh..uhh uhhh...."black out.. ...load burden on others and never pick a single load myself.
BUT
I would really be happy if i could learn from Jesus how to live like Him...and have all the joy and peace only He can give. I would be happy to live a life with all burdens loaded on His shoulders ...satisfied , knowing what am doing and having purpose in every action , everything i do and to feel His presence with me 24 hrs and to have a relationship with Him....to be in His reality...to surrender each move and day completely to Him and let Him be on the driver's seat and me sitting behind watching what He does through my body...to have all the fantastic joy that He can give...heavenly , pure , that quenches the thirst within me.....that ends my search ... that makes me wanna pull others to show them - HIM.....to see astonishment in their faces...to see how God changes lives....the abundant life!....the true meaning....Abba Father...I love You ...I love You .....

You know....that is where many miss the mark....they conflate salvation/justification with ongoing sanctification/transformation which leads to a faulty gospel that is maintained and or losable by what we do or don't do........

Being saved/justified is a one off eternal event based upon faith into the completed work of Christ on our behalf....it is a settled deal and by verb tense and context has a present continuing result from a past completed action and is fully based upon the faith of Christ that he begins, finishes and completes in us. We have been saved to the uttermost, are kept by his power, sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise and have been saved by the irrevocable gift of GOD having been born again by incorruptible seed spiritually from above and when we fail and sin GRACE abounds ahead of our sin and is dealing with it before we even sin.......

NOW this takes us to stage 2 which has NOTHING to do with stage 1 which is entirely based upon faith......

Stage 2 is the process of transformation and ongoing sanctification which is accurately described in Romans 12:1-2......we study and apply the word of GOD which causes us to grow spiritually and this process transforms us (same word used to describe a worm changing into a butterfly metamorphosis) as we feed the spirit it grows and becomes more mature and the outside actions change because of the inward change....it is a process of growth and maturity and for sure is subject to successes and or failures...SOME go on to maturity because of steady diet and application of the word, some allow the world to hinder the growth, some remain spiritually immature because of a lack of spiritual food (the word of God) maybe by circumstance or crappy teachers that do nothing but shovel milk etc.........

MANY conflate the above 2 into 1 and in so doing peddle that which is false.............one equals eternal security and the latter is for reward (misthos) pay or wages........tragically many deny these truths....

 

[dcontroversal]

And yet again, you preach a works based salvation. One that is dependent on what you accomplish - not on what Christ accomplished. You give lip service to the Holy Spirit while placing the burden of law-based works upon believers. Your gospel is one where you share the glory of your salvation with Jesus based upon your performance. Yet your ilk can never tell us how much/many good works are sufficient to "prove" one is saved.

Paul called your kind out in scripture - you are a Judaizer.

And yes, belief is all that is required for salvation. Not your belief/works hodgepodge.

Every day my list grows......if you know what I mean......no wonder JESUS said the number would be plenteous......!!

 

[dcontroversal]

So your saying you believe the prodigal was a son, stopped being a son (lost salvation) then was restored?

Just asking for confirmation, again, if the son died in a prodigal state, would he have been his fathers son, or cast out to eternal darkness?

That is exactly what some of these people believe and peddle.............I would love to see an actual example of that.............a son by birth will always be a son by birth......it is idiotic to think that my son which was born my son can ever NOT be my son........idiotic.....

 

[Sketch]

And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 1 John 3:23

1 John 2:4-5
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.


1 john 3:14- We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not hisbrother abideth in death.

1 John 4:7- Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that lovesis born of God, and knowsGod. 8. He that does not love, does not know God for God is love

1 John 5: 1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

Oh, good. I was afraid you might claim the Ten Commandments were the commandments of Jesus.

 

[Sketch]

Yes, like those commands, they who give up everything they have to go and follow Christ who become His disciples will do.
I know many here claim themselves disciples of Christ, but I know that I do not meet the criteria.
How about you Sketch, are you a disciple of Christ?

Not according to your definition. Maybe there is a better way to look at this.
Did everyone who followed Christ become a homeless person?

 

[louis]

Not according to your definition. Maybe there is a better way to look at this.
Did everyone who followed Christ become a homeless person?

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

 

[Sketch]

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

What do you recommend?

 

[Shemuel-Yerimiyahu]

Who said we should not live righteous lives?

I am confused by your response, this passage is speaking of following the commandments and those that do are accepted amongst other passages speaking of and pointing to the commandments being the way to live our daily lives (would be happy to discuss and post scriptures if there is interest). Yahshua(Jesus) is the only way to the Father , however I believe we are to Love the Father with all of our hearts, minds, and souls. Essentially love Him with our entire being and He has said repeatedly in scripture the way we show Him our love is by obedience to His word and commandments. We Need Messiah to be our salvation and intercede on our behalf to the Father because we are human and have a nature of sin, however we are told to live a life practicing righteousness and abstaining from sin and the Torah is hands down the way to do this, along with the Spirit being our helper.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am confused by your response, this passage is speaking of following the commandments and those that do are accepted amongst other passages speaking of and pointing to the commandments being the way to live our daily lives (would be happy to discuss and post scriptures if there is interest). Yahshua(Jesus) is the only way to the Father , however I believe we are to Love the Father with all of our hearts, minds, and souls. Essentially love Him with our entire being and He has said repeatedly in scripture the way we show Him our love is by obedience to His word and commandments. We Need Messiah to be our salvation and intercede on our behalf to the Father because we are human and have a nature of sin, however we are told to live a life practicing righteousness and abstaining from sin and the Torah is hands down the way to do this, along with the Spirit being our helper.

Again, i ask, who is saying we are not to live righteous lives?

 

[louis]

What do you recommend?

I doubt anyone today meets the criteria for disciple. Nevertheless, just because I recognize that I do not meet the criteria for disciple, does not mean I am not of a little faith in Christ and His Way, and therefore am a little lower on the totem pole.
As for recomending how to increase your faith leading to discipleship; according to the Lord's explanation in Luke 17:5-8, the servant must first serve the master before the servant can eat.

Luke 17:5 And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.
6 And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.
7 But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat?
8 And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink?

 

[Shemuel-Yerimiyahu]

Again, i ask, who is saying we are not to live righteous lives?

i am still not sure of what you are asking or why. To answer I don’t know who states we should live unrighteous lives, I was trying to share what I feel has been shown to me through my studies and feel is the way to live as righteous a life as possible. The Torah(God’s commandments) is what is being stipulated in revelation (as well as other points in the NT and OT) as being a way to be blessed, and Yashua(Jesus) states that He will reward those that have done this. I peacefully submit that we should abstain from sin as much as in our power and living out the statues in the Torah is the way to do this, also having the Spirit guide us and open our eyes to walk as pure a path as we can.

 

[Sketch]

Nevertheless, just because I recognize that I do not meet the criteria for disciple, does not mean I am not of a little faith in Christ and His Way, and therefore am a little lower on the totem pole.

You understand that a totem pole is an idol, right? lol

 

[Macabeus]

Yeah and satan wants to tear you down, he walks like a lion seeking who he may devour, and if you struggle, Or are at a state in your life when you are not producing or strugglimg with some sin issue, he wants to convince you that you are not Gods child

Thats why legalism is dangerous and the last thing a child of god needs to think about at that time,

What he needs to remember is John when joh said to remember the fact we HAVE ETERNAL LIFE and as scripture says nothing can seperate us from the love of God. Otherwise he will most likely wash out like so many fruit inspectors have done

The devil will not tear me down through guilt. He tried that for twenty years and failed. Because I have 1 John 1:9-2:2 as a buttress. The way the devil attacks me is trying to get me to compromise. I know my weaknesses and so does the devil, and i am more likely to complacency and inconsistency than failing to receive God’s Grace. In other words, the flesh and the enemy attack me from the opposite front than you are mentioning

 

[Macabeus]

They were never the sons.. lolol

And ps, i speak from experience, I WAS A PRODIGAL SON FOR 5 years, would i have been lost if i died inthat state?

I will a ask you again. Who did the two sons in MATTHEW 21: 28-32 represent. Read it and answer before you mock

I know Christians can be prodigals, and I was a terrible prodigal for many years, including drug abuse, sexual immorality, and occultic practices. What you are saying is a valid APPLICATION of Luke 15. But I am speaking of actual INTERPRETATION, which is discovered through CONTEXT

Have you ever heard of the rule MANY APPLICATIONS, but only ONE INTERPRETATION?

 

[Macabeus]

So your saying you believe the prodigal was a son, stopped being a son (lost salvation) then was restored?

Just asking for confirmation, again, if the son died in a prodigal state, would he have been his fathers son, or cast out to eternal darkness?

The question is not valid, any more than if you asked the same question about the two sons in Matthew 21:28-32. Go read the text, see who the two sons represent and then apply your question to them. If you read that text correctly, you will see why I say your question is invalid and totally misses the point of JESUS ORIGINAL AND IMMEDIETE intention

See previous post. Many applications for a text but only one interpretation

 

[Macabeus]

Oh, good. I was afraid you might claim the Ten Commandments were the commandments of Jesus.

The Ten Commandments were a guideline given to the nation of Israel to guide them and preserve them as a nation. The commands of Jesus is much more comprehensive. Not only do not commit adultery, but whoever looks on a woman with lust commits adultery in his heart and do not kill is replaced with whoever hates is a murderer.

The commands of Jesus are fulfilled In is who walk after the Spirit. In other words, we are not trusting in the arm of our flesh. Rather we are trusting in the Arm of the Lord.

 

[Macabeus]

So your saying you believe the prodigal was a son, stopped being a son (lost salvation) then was restored?

Just asking for confirmation, again, if the son died in a prodigal state, would he have been his fathers son, or cast out to eternal darkness?

The prodigal son has NOTHING to do with losing salvation. It also, in its original intent, had nothing to do with what you are saying

“Son” is a symbol for a single unifying message, as is sheep and coin. The unifying message of the three parables is found in the first two or three verses of the chapter

The two sons in the other parable I have set beside this one, parable of the two sons in Matthew 21:28-32, who they represent, is given in verses 31 and 32. The first son is the religious leaders who rejected the way of righteousness and the second represents the harlots and publicans who gladly received it

Did the unbelieving religious leaders lose their salvation? Did the publicans and harlots lose their salvation and get it back? These questions are not even relevant and wholly miss the point, and you are engaging in eisegesis, beginning with a doctrine and reading it into and inserting it into the text

As far as wayward Christians, the message of the parable of the prodigal can apply to them, but that is not the original intent. The original intent was to encourage the sinners who were coming to Jesus, rebuke the Pharisees, and instruct the disciples not to have a pharisaical mentality towards penitents

 

[Sketch]

The Ten Commandments were a guideline given to the nation of Israel to guide them and preserve them as a nation. The commands of Jesus is much more comprehensive. Not only do not commit adultery, but whoever looks on a woman with lust commits adultery in his heart and do not kill is replaced with whoever hates is a murderer.

The commands of Jesus are fulfilled In is who walk after the Spirit. In other words, we are not trusting in the arm of our flesh. Rather we are trusting in the Arm of the Lord.

Were the Ten Commandments engraved in letters on stone?
If so, this says they were the transitory ministry that brought death and condemnation, that has no glory now.

2 Corinthians 3:6-11
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

 

[Macabeus]

Were the Ten Commandments engraved in letters on stone?
If so, this says they were the transitory ministry that brought death and condemnation, that has no glory now.

2 Corinthians 3:6-11
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

Agreed, because we broke them. They cannot save, only point to the need of a Saviour. But just because we're not under the Law, does not mean we can lie, commit adultery, steal, etc. We are not under the Law's curse or dominion, but we live unto God who is Holy.