Do you know your scripture?
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absolutely not. I am quoting what Jesus said about giving period. You don't give that is between you and God. Jesus said Give. giving should be as normal as preaching the gospel. next you will be telling
we are not to have a job, pay taxes, and own a home. I laugh at you broke wannabe biblical economist AND what is no longer is to be done. Jesus said gave. You do what HE said or not. And Jesus is the Authority when HE is Speaking not Moses. The law is not the authority when Jesus is speaking.
we are not to have a job, pay taxes, and own a home. I laugh at you broke wannabe biblical economist AND what is no longer is to be done. Jesus said gave. You do what HE said or not. And Jesus is the Authority when HE is Speaking not Moses. The law is not the authority when Jesus is speaking.
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K
Had you read my post to another poster here I made a clear distinction between tv evangelists and local pastors. Now that being said tithe is used for certain purposes. It can't just be used however a pastor wishes. Once again,you as a member of the church have a say in where the money is spent. What you are talking about is missapproapriation of funds,or fraud. If your pastor is doing this he is breaking the law. Pastors deserve to get a good wage and they ought to have things paid for. Expenses should be covered by the church. If the funds are being misused speak up. Simple as that. You're acting like this is the majority of pastors,it isn't. Once again no one has given me a good argument yet against tithe. God promises blessing to those that tithe. Jesus said you should tithe. It has nothing to do with pastors,it has to do with what you are called to do.
The primary problem with this is that the tithe never went to a local church. It was payable in produce or animals and went to the Temple in Jerusalem.
Now, if you want to advocate giving ten percent of your income to your local church, that's fine, but it isn't "tithing".
What happens, unfortunately, is that people hear "tithing" and think "according to the Law"... then they start wondering what other bits and pieces of the Law are still applicable. Better to separate them completely.
Now, if you want to advocate giving ten percent of your income to your local church, that's fine, but it isn't "tithing".
What happens, unfortunately, is that people hear "tithing" and think "according to the Law"... then they start wondering what other bits and pieces of the Law are still applicable. Better to separate them completely.
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Dino246 is right...Jesus made it clear when He said: "These you OUGHT to have done". That is a moral judgment.
However, I would like to remind you all that the principle of Tithing was introduced before the Law.
The first Tithe was given to Melchizedek in Genesis 14 by Abram.
Tithing is an issue of Faith, not an issue of Law.
Jesus said "where your treasure is, there your heart will be also"
If you love Him, you will honor him with your money.
Malachi 3:10 “Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this,” says the Lord of hosts, “if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows, then I will rebuke the devourer for you, so that it will not destroy the fruits of the ground; nor will your vine in the field cast its grapes" says the Lord of hosts.
This is the only time in the Bible that God invites us to test Him.
Tithing is similar to Fasting and keeping the Sabbath. Not a sin to not do these things, but you are missing out on some amazing spiritual blessing and intimacy with God when you don't trust Him with your time, affection, resources, and money.
Put your trust in Him, surrender all to Jesus.
"Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver."
-2 Corinthians 9:7
However, I would like to remind you all that the principle of Tithing was introduced before the Law.
The first Tithe was given to Melchizedek in Genesis 14 by Abram.
Tithing is an issue of Faith, not an issue of Law.
Jesus said "where your treasure is, there your heart will be also"
If you love Him, you will honor him with your money.
Malachi 3:10 “Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this,” says the Lord of hosts, “if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows, then I will rebuke the devourer for you, so that it will not destroy the fruits of the ground; nor will your vine in the field cast its grapes" says the Lord of hosts.
This is the only time in the Bible that God invites us to test Him.
Tithing is similar to Fasting and keeping the Sabbath. Not a sin to not do these things, but you are missing out on some amazing spiritual blessing and intimacy with God when you don't trust Him with your time, affection, resources, and money.
Put your trust in Him, surrender all to Jesus.
"Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver."
-2 Corinthians 9:7
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what I find interesting is the originator of this thread asked about what one is to do in the context of Giving under the new covenant. Yet why so many speak about what they see others getting? I do not think this is about what we see others give but what you or if you even give at all.
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The primary problem with this is that the tithe never went to a local church. It was payable in produce or animals and went to the Temple in Jerusalem.
Now, if you want to advocate giving ten percent of your income to your local church, that's fine, but it isn't "tithing".
What happens, unfortunately, is that people hear "tithing" and think "according to the Law"... then they start wondering what other bits and pieces of the Law are still applicable. Better to separate them completely.
Now, if you want to advocate giving ten percent of your income to your local church, that's fine, but it isn't "tithing".
What happens, unfortunately, is that people hear "tithing" and think "according to the Law"... then they start wondering what other bits and pieces of the Law are still applicable. Better to separate them completely.
Although what he gave equated to a tenth, it was (as far as I recall) given through choice and not compulsion.
Therefore it was an offering, not a tithe.
The word tithe appears twice in the NT
Matthew 23:23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others.
Luke 11:42 “But woe to you Pharisees! For you tithe mint and rue and every herb, and neglect justice and the love of God. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others.
Both say you ought to tithe, and not neglect mercy, justice, and faithfulness.
Can you post a single verse that states explicitly that we are not to tithe?
Matthew 23:23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others.
Luke 11:42 “But woe to you Pharisees! For you tithe mint and rue and every herb, and neglect justice and the love of God. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others.
Both say you ought to tithe, and not neglect mercy, justice, and faithfulness.
Can you post a single verse that states explicitly that we are not to tithe?
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I have not read where we are 'obligated'...he gives us freewill. but I know when I do give tithe and offerings, I am blessed unbelievably, …. I think its more of obedience too. it doesn't kill us to give , no big deal, we spend tons on soda pop and candy unreasonably and no one complains about that, and it hurts us. its wasting our money too. if we give money to the church they are helping soul to come into Gods kingdom,, but if its given unwillingly, he would prefer you didn't give. he is rich, he doesnt want it or need it for himself. To me, it shows him I trust he will let it go usefully to bring others into his kingdom...I see it as obedient to his word... I see it as a show of love. but he doesn't make us, or punish us if we don't. ...again, we waste more on nonsense and don't complain to the companies.
I have not read where we are 'obligated'...he gives us freewill. but I know when I do give tithe and offerings, I am blessed unbelievably, …. I think its more of obedience too. it doesn't kill us to give , no big deal, we spend tons on soda pop and candy unreasonably and no one complains about that, and it hurts us. its wasting our money too. if we give money to the church they are helping soul to come into Gods kingdom,, but if its given unwillingly, he would prefer you didn't give. he is rich, he doesnt want it or need it for himself. To me, it shows him I trust he will let it go usefully to bring others into his kingdom...I see it as obedient to his word... I see it as a show of love. but he doesn't make us, or punish us if we don't. ...again, we waste more on nonsense and don't complain to the companies.
Those verses do not say to tithe, they indicate that those who had been tithing seem to have adopted a legalistic 'checklist' approach to their relationship with God, which is not what they should have done.
Jesus is saying they ought to love...
I am able to present several reasons why we should not tithe, buy instead present offering by choice.
It's late here, so I'll do it tomorrow
Jesus is saying they ought to love...
I am able to present several reasons why we should not tithe, buy instead present offering by choice.
It's late here, so I'll do it tomorrow
In this passage, we see the first blessing, the first tithe, and the first communion in the Bible.
"Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; now he was a priest of God Most High.
He blessed him and said, “Blessed be Abram of God Most High,
Possessor of heaven and earth;
And blessed be God Most High,
Who has delivered your enemies into your hand.”
He gave him a tenth of all."
מַעֲשֵׂר (ma.a.ser) '"Tithe'" Strong's #(H4643)
I'm afraid it was a tithe, my friend.
Abram blessed Melchizedek with a tithe because He was greater than Abram
"Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; now he was a priest of God Most High.
He blessed him and said, “Blessed be Abram of God Most High,
Possessor of heaven and earth;
And blessed be God Most High,
Who has delivered your enemies into your hand.”
He gave him a tenth of all."
מַעֲשֵׂר (ma.a.ser) '"Tithe'" Strong's #(H4643)
I'm afraid it was a tithe, my friend.
Abram blessed Melchizedek with a tithe because He was greater than Abram
Yes but there are THREE components to a tithe:
1. It being a TENTH
2. It being CONPULSORY
3. Under Mosaic law it applies to the ISRAELITES, who tithe to the LEVITICSL PRIESTS.
An offering that happens to be a tenth is just that: an offering of said amount.
The passage that you quoted says it was a tenth.
But
1. Was Abram an Israelite?
2. Was it given as an obligation, to a Levitical priest?
It is often said that "tithe means tenth".
But that's just one of the components of a tithe, there are two others, as above.
An offering on the other hand is:
1. There is no defined amount or standard
2. It is given through choice not compulsion
3. It applies to everybody that follows God, not just Israelites.
Tithing is defined under Mosaic law, which was a curse that Christ redeemed us from.
1. It being a TENTH
2. It being CONPULSORY
3. Under Mosaic law it applies to the ISRAELITES, who tithe to the LEVITICSL PRIESTS.
An offering that happens to be a tenth is just that: an offering of said amount.
The passage that you quoted says it was a tenth.
But
1. Was Abram an Israelite?
2. Was it given as an obligation, to a Levitical priest?
It is often said that "tithe means tenth".
But that's just one of the components of a tithe, there are two others, as above.
An offering on the other hand is:
1. There is no defined amount or standard
2. It is given through choice not compulsion
3. It applies to everybody that follows God, not just Israelites.
Tithing is defined under Mosaic law, which was a curse that Christ redeemed us from.
"The one whose genealogy is not traced (Melchizedek) collected a tithe from Abraham and blessed the one who had the promises.
But without any dispute, the lesser is blessed by the greater.
In this case mortal men receive tithes, but in that case, one receives them of whom it is witnessed that he lives on.
And, so to speak, through Abraham even Levi, who received tithes, paid tithes,
for he was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met him." -Hebrews 7:6-10
Tithing is a pre-Law principal. Yes, it was enforced in the Mosaic law, but it was not born in the Law, it was born in an act of Faith.
The Tithe existed BEFORE the Law was given, and INDEPENDENT of the Law.
Just like the relationship between God and time. He existed before and independent of time, but He chose to enter into time. In the same way, God chose to mention tithing in the Law, although the Law does not need to exist in order for Tithing to exist.
So with or without the Law, the Tithe is still an act of faith that honors God.
But without any dispute, the lesser is blessed by the greater.
In this case mortal men receive tithes, but in that case, one receives them of whom it is witnessed that he lives on.
And, so to speak, through Abraham even Levi, who received tithes, paid tithes,
for he was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met him." -Hebrews 7:6-10
Tithing is a pre-Law principal. Yes, it was enforced in the Mosaic law, but it was not born in the Law, it was born in an act of Faith.
The Tithe existed BEFORE the Law was given, and INDEPENDENT of the Law.
Just like the relationship between God and time. He existed before and independent of time, but He chose to enter into time. In the same way, God chose to mention tithing in the Law, although the Law does not need to exist in order for Tithing to exist.
So with or without the Law, the Tithe is still an act of faith that honors God.
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