Not By Works

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Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#82,901
Mar 11, 2014
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#82,901
UnderGrace said:
Definitely James is not saying that he was justified before God at that moment, his faith in action (work) justified him before men.

Abraham was justified earlier before God

Abraham believed the promise of God, and that faith is credited to him as righteousness (Genesis 15:6)
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Yes, I agree with you.

We can then answer James's questions "What good is it, my brothers, if a man says he has faith, but has no works? Can faith save him?"

If the person actually has faith, and isn't just saying it, it's of great good because the person is justified. And yes, faith can save the person, if by saved one means justified.
 
stillness

stillness

Senior Member
#82,902
Jan 28, 2013
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Walk trough the valley
#82,902
dcontroversal said:
The will of the Heavenly Father---->BELIEVE on HIM whom HE HAS SENT!
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Good, now we know that Believe on Him whom He has sent is summed up in "Rejoice continually, Pray without ceasing, in everything give thanks, for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you."
Or is it the other Way around that "Rejoice continually, Pray without ceasing, in everything give thanks, for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you." is summed up in "This is the work of God, that you believe on Him whom He has sent."
Not that it maters, witch verse is summed up in Jesus, it's all about Jesus when we are past dualistic thinking. "Now we are the body of Christ. "He that believes in Him is to walk even as HE walked."
 
J

justpassinthrough

Senior Member
#82,903
Oct 31, 2015
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#82,903
Budman said:
Okay, so answer yes or no to these:

Have you sold all that you own and given the money to the poor?

Do you forgive seven times seventy?

When you have lunch or dinner, do you go out and invite the poor, the cripple, the lame, and the blind to join you?

Do you love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind at all times?

Do you wash the feet of other believers?

Have you preached the gospel to every creature?

Are you willing to pluck out your eye or cut of your hand if either causes you to stumble?

Do you honor and obey your parents at all times?

Have you gone and made disciples from all nations, baptizing them?

If you give a single "no" answer, then you are indeed a hypocrite.
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You need to answer my question just as I have answered yours.


Once you have done this, then you can ask me a question and I’ll answer yours.


Which of His Commandments do you disobey


No other god’s.
Worshiping graven images
Taking His name in vain.
Dishonoring your mother and father.
Murder.
Adultery.
Stealing.
Lying.
Covetousness.



JPT
 
J

justpassinthrough

Senior Member
#82,904
Oct 31, 2015
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#82,904
UnderGrace said:
Actually, there is a lot of historical context and surrounding context one needs to consider, but then that would not suit a faulty doctrine.
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It doesn’t matter which century we live, or which country or culture.


The truth does not change.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


You can attempt to explain away the truth, but that won’t change it either.




JPT
 
J

justpassinthrough

Senior Member
#82,905
Oct 31, 2015
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#82,905
dcontroversal said:
So are those who say they don't sin..............yea, even more so!
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I said I don’t sin everyday.


This doesn’t mean I have never sinned, or that I won’t sin in the future.



He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4




JPT
 
J

justpassinthrough

Senior Member
#82,906
Oct 31, 2015
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#82,906
gb9 said:
what you have here is a part of the definition .

it also means slow to call something good, slow to call something evil.

it also calling something good that God calls evil, or vice versa.

it also means reproachful speech injurious to the Divine Majesty.

so, you say you do not sin everyday.

well, do not count today, as you lied by omission by only giving a partial definition of a word, and trying to pass it off as the whole definition.
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Definition of Blasphemy-


Actually, slander is one of the definitions for blasphemy.


Strongs G988 - blasphēmia


KJV Translation Count — Total: 19x
The KJV translates Strong's G988 in the following manner: blasphemy (16x), railing(2x), evil speaking (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
  1. slander, detraction, speech injurious, to another's good name
  2. impious and reproachful speech injurious to divine majesty



JPT
 
J

justpassinthrough

Senior Member
#82,907
Oct 31, 2015
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#82,907
If you guys would spend as much time and energy in studying the scriptures as you do, trying to explain them away, and attacking those who believe and love the truth, you may learn something.




JPT
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#82,908
#82,908
justpassinthrough said:
It doesn’t matter which century we live, or which country or culture.


The truth does not change.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


You can attempt to explain away the truth, but that won’t change it either.




JPT
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Not about changing truth, but to think one can understand any writing apart from of context (historical, cultural, linguistical, etymology) is pure folly.

Your denial of context just leaves all scripture one mess of contradiction and creates a very scary false belief that one can be perfect!!!
 
J

justpassinthrough

Senior Member
#82,910
Oct 31, 2015
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#82,910
UnderGrace said:
Not about changing truth, but to think one can understand any writing apart from of context (historical, cultural, linguistical, etymology) is pure folly.

Your denial of context just leaves all scripture one mess of contradiction and creates a very scary false belief that one can be perfect!!!
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I guess you don’t know or understand that born again Christians who have received the Holy Spirit are called to walk according to the Spirit.




I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:16-21




JPT
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#82,911
#82,911
Dan_473 said:
Yes, I agree with you.

We can then answer James's questions "What good is it, my brothers, if a man says he has faith, but has no works? Can faith save him?"

If the person actually has faith, and isn't just saying it, it's of great good because the person is justified. And yes, faith can save the person, if by saved one means justified.
Click to expand...
The term "justified" must be understood within the context of the letter. James is certainly not speaking about the justification (eternal salvation) that comes from God.

He makes it very clear he is writing on the profitable Christian life, that is how do we live after we are born again.

Also the word saved does not always refer to saved, as in saved from hell, one has to read this word in context too.

James is writing to believers.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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Dec 12, 2013
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#82,912
justpassinthrough said:
Then no one could ever be saved, because unbelief is blasphemy and can never be forgiven.



Can’t you see just how redicoulous that definition is?



JPT
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No..it is biblical within the context of BELIEVING that JESUS is working by the power of the devil.....but I fully expect you in the ignorance of your stance to reject the truth of what was said...

NO BELIEF IN CHRIST as FROM GOD = NO FORGIVENESS

What is RIDICULOUS is the idiocy/ignorance you spout without knowledge.......
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#82,913
#82,913
justpassinthrough said:
I guess you don’t know or understand that born again Christians who have received the Holy Spirit are called to walk according to the Spi
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Yes and we do that perfectly, because now we are automatons, and the lust of the flesh, the world and Satan have been done away with and our will is so constrained and controlled that we never sin.......I don't think so!!!

(2).jpg


If this was true we would not even need the epistles to the churches!!!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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Dec 12, 2013
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#82,915
I stand amazed at some of the stupid things that are peddled by the unlearned.......the PHARISEES believed the power behind JESUS was the DEVIL.....they were equating the WORK of Christ by the POWER of the HOLY SPIRIT to the POWER pf the DEVIL.....THIS is a STATE of unbelief INTO the work of CHRIST and him being FROM GOD <-----ALL in this POSITION CANNOT be forgiven because they are IN a PERMANENT STATE of UNBELIEF.............ONE who WILL NOT BELIEVE in CHRIST and HIS WORK on their BEHALF CANNOT BE FORGIVEN.......to DIE as an UNBELIEVER is to EQUATE the work of the HOLY SPIRIT as FALSE, and to equate the WORK of CHRIST as FALSE........the rich man is a fine example....even while BURNING in HELL he refuses to BELIEVE that the message from the LAW and PROPHETS which POINTED to CHRIST would work...........BUT if ONE rose from the dead..........NO said ABRAHAM.....if they WILL NOT BELIEVE the word of GOD they will NOT believe ONE who has risen from the DEAD.....and ONE did rise from the dead and yet MILLIONS pour into hell yearly........

Some people need to go back to SUNDAY SCHOOL and pay attention......
 
J

justpassinthrough

Senior Member
#82,916
Oct 31, 2015
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#82,916
dcontroversal said:
No..it is biblical within the context of BELIEVING that JESUS is working by the power of the devil.....but I fully expect you in the ignorance of your stance to reject the truth of what was said...

NO BELIEF IN CHRIST as FROM GOD = NO FORGIVENESS

What is RIDICULOUS is the idiocy/ignorance you spout without knowledge.......
Click to expand...

No one believes until they do.

So by your theory, that unbelief is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, then no one can be forgiven, and saved.



Now that is truly ridiculous.


Here is the definition of blasphemy-



Actually, slander is one of the definitions for blasphemy.


Strongs G988 - blasphēmia


KJV Translation Count — Total: 19x
The KJV translates Strong's G988 in the following manner: blasphemy (16x), railing(2x), evil speaking (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
  1. slander, detraction, speech injurious, to another's good name
  2. impious and reproachful speech injurious to divine majesty



Where do you see “unbelief” in this definition?


No where.



JPT
 
J

justpassinthrough

Senior Member
#82,917
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
113
#82,917
dcontroversal said:
I stand amazed at some of the stupid things that are peddled by the unlearned.......the PHARISEES believed the power behind JESUS was the DEVIL.....they were equating the WORK of Christ by the POWER of the HOLY SPIRIT to the POWER pf the DEVIL.....THIS is a STATE of unbelief INTO the work of CHRIST and him being FROM GOD <-----ALL in this POSITION CANNOT be forgiven because they are IN a PERMANENT STATE of UNBELIEF.............ONE who WILL NOT BELIEVE in CHRIST and HIS WORK on their BEHALF CANNOT BE FORGIVEN.......to DIE as an UNBELIEVER is to EQUATE the work of the HOLY SPIRIT as FALSE, and to equate the WORK of CHRIST as FALSE........the rich man is a fine example....even while BURNING in HELL he refuses to BELIEVE that the message from the LAW and PROPHETS which POINTED to CHRIST would work...........BUT if ONE rose from the dead..........NO said ABRAHAM.....if they WILL NOT BELIEVE the word of GOD they will NOT believe ONE who has risen from the DEAD.....and ONE did rise from the dead and yet MILLIONS pour into hell yearly........

Some people need to go back to SUNDAY SCHOOL and pay attention......
Click to expand...
Here is the definition of blasphemy-



Actually, slander is one of the definitions for blasphemy.


Strongs G988 - blasphēmia


KJV Translation Count — Total: 19x
The KJV translates Strong's G988 in the following manner: blasphemy (16x), railing(2x), evil speaking (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
  1. slander, detraction, speech injurious, to another's good name
  2. impious and reproachful speech injurious to divine majesty



Where do you see “unbelief” in this definition?


No where.



Read the Bible.





JPT
 
J

justpassinthrough

Senior Member
#82,918
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
113
#82,918
UnderGrace said:
Yes and we do that perfectly, because now we are automatons, and the lust of the flesh, the world and Satan have been done away with and our will is so constrained and controlled that we never sin.......I don't think so!!!

View attachment 193727


If this was true we would not even need the epistles to the churches!!!
Click to expand...

We are called to walk according to the Spirit, not walk according to the desires of the flesh.


Please read what the scripture says.


I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:16-21




JPT
 
J

justpassinthrough

Senior Member
#82,920
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
113
#82,920
UnderGrace said:
Yes were are, yet from what I have read of your posts you think this walk is the process towards eternal salvation ....it is not.
Click to expand...

Do you understand what the biblical term “will not inherit the kingdom of God” means?


Those who do not inherit the kingdom of God will perish in the fires of hell.


Do you understand this?



  • that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God




Please read what the scripture says.


I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:16-21




JPT
 
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