Not By Works

[GodsGrace101]

You know in the beginning when i still watched christian TV and read some testimonies or books or whatever. I noticed they always had that "just pray about it" advice for any sin that you had. And God will just ZAP take it away from you and give you new desires and things. But my question was/is WHEN? WHEN does it happen? My answer is: NEVER. I prayed and prayed and prayed for a LOOONG time and it never worked.

Only after I realized that what they were telling me just wasnt true (or atleast wasnt true for ME) and that the only way to ever get rid of a specific action, is to STOP doing it, just like Jesus said "if your right hands offends you...". (NO i dont claim to have stopped every single sin nor do I claim to be sinlessly perfect....)

How do people get addicted to things? (some sinful some not) By OVER-INDULGENCE, if you use alcohol too much, your body/mind becomes addicted to it, and drunkenness is a sin.
The way to stop it, is to stop over-indulging and suffer in the flesh and you will CEASE from sin, as the Bible teaches.
The longer you go without it, the easier it gets and THEN your desire to drink is CHANGED. But if you keep drinking alcohol excessively and ask God to take the desire away from you, we'll see how that works out for ya.

Maybe someone here has a testimony where God took all their sinful desires away over night, which praise God if that was the case. But I would find some verses in the Epistles of Paul to be REDUNDANT if this was the case for all Christians, because why bother warning people about slipping back to sin if they got NO DESIRE or TEMPTATION whatsoever for it?

I agree with all you've said.
Praying alone does not solve a lot....
It's the tuning in to God that makes prayer work.
Although it could cause miracles too.
It's our life-style that makes a lot work.

I do know persons that gave up smoking immediately, or even drugs.
(from years ago...not since I've been here)
And some can't seem to get off the drugs and become distraught because someone told them to pray about it and it's not working --- just like you said.

I do fear, however, that my post may not have been understood properly since both you and @mailmandan gave me a surprise. (no. 81, 695).

It's OK.

 

[VCO]

Here is a song we sung in our Worship Service on Sunday.

May the words Bless You Richly:

 

[dcontroversal]

Yeah. Gotta keep this thread going.
I'm up for it.

Give me scripture...PLEASE!

Give the definitions of the words bolded.....and of course, I absolutely expect no honesty on your part with the definitions and how they are applied.....

 

[stonesoffire]

LOL
I'm not learning from @dcontroversal !
I like to go to the source.

It would be interesting to know why you think he has wisdom concerning this thread
and why others that say to obey God do not.

Seems like another conflict to me....

Because he knows that the meaning of obey under the new covenant means belief. Disobedience is unbelief.

 

[stonesoffire]

I took the not of works thing literally. Im unemployed.

uh....what should we ask the Lord for....am confused now.

 

[dcontroversal]

Because he knows that the meaning of obey under the new covenant means belief. Disobedience is unbelief.

Thanks you Stones.........thumbs up

 

[stonesoffire]

I thought practicing righteousness was as filthy rags?
This is what happens when theology is not conisistant.
It can change from epistle to epistle.

Yes, those who practice righteousness are of God.
What does righteous mean?
Be right with God.
HOW do we be right with God?
Follow His ways,,,,trust Him,,,be obedient to Him as good disciples should be.

Walking life morally good would be an upright person. Righteous is the declaration of God over a believer. The righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. The only perfect man.

 

[stonesoffire]

Thanks you Stones.........thumbs up

You're welcome Sir.

 

[Matthew55]

I just told you in that sentence........it means exactly what I ended with..........

Your reply to what is the concept of "rightly dividing" the word of God.
"2nd Timothy 2:15 and saying that faith plus works to gain, maintain, top off, finish or keep salvation is NOT cutting straight the word of GOD......."
2 Timothy 2:15 King James Version (KJV)
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

So is "rightly dividing the word" mean: saying faith plus works to gain, maintain......... 2 Timonthy just uses "rightly dividing the word" in a sentence and does not explain what it is. Well, that is true for you. But since you hesitated to tell me the true nature of "righly divinding the word", I looked it up and here it is:

"But even beyond the type of literature, the "word of God" can be divided into two categories - LAW & GOSPEL. More important than anything else is being able to recognise (rightly divide or correctly handle) whether you are reading LAW or GOSPEL. LAW is what God demands from us, GOSPEL is what God gives to us."

So the question: Has anyone gone through the NT and rightly divided the word of truth into these 2 catagories, so that when a person reads the bible they can know whether the words they are reading pertain to the law, and which words pertain to the gospel?

Has it been suggested that the 4 gospels are really part of the law, including the words of Jesus in the 4 gospels and so do not have to be a concern for a gospel oriented Christian? And that the words of Paul are what is considered the gospel and need to be adhered to?

Can you comment on this concept now that I have introduced it to you?

 

[Argueless]

Can the "salvation losers" be honest and give the biblical definitions of the following words....??

Born from above by INCORRUPTIBLE seed

Saved to the UTTERMOST

KEPT by the POWER OF GOD

I will LOSE NOTHING, but RAISE it up the last day

He that believes on the Son is having EVERLASTING LIFE

HE that began a good work in you will FINISH IT and COMPLETE it

We are SEALED UNTO the day of REDEMPTION

I will NEVER leave thee nor FORSAKE thee

Where sin abounds, GRACE abounds the MORE

...“To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I KNOW YOUR DEEDS; you have a reputation of being alive, but YOU ARE DEAD. WAKE UP! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I HAVE NOT FOUND YOUR DEEDS COMPLETE in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have RECEIVED and HEARD; OBEY IT, AND REPENT. But IF YOU DO NOT WAKE UP, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you. Yet you have a few people in Sardis WHO HAVE NOT SOILED THEIR CLOTHES. They will WALK WITH ME, dressed in white, for THEY ARE WORTHY. He who OVERCOMES will, like them, be dressed in white. I WILL NEVER BLOT OUT HIS NAME from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. Revelation 3:1-6

...But I will come to you very soon, if the Lord is willing, and then I will find out not only how these ARROGANT PEOPLE are talking, but WHAT POWER THEY HAVE. For the kingdom of God is NOT A MATTER OF TALK BUT OF POWER. 1 Corinthians 4:19-20

...LET NO ONE DECEIVE YOU with empty words, for because of such things GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT. Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians 5:6-7

...“The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, YOU DID FOR ME.’ “He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, YOU DID NOT DO FOR ME.’ “Then they will GO AWAY TO ETERNAL PUNISHMENT, but the righteous TO ETERNAL LIFE.” Matthew 25:40,45-46

...DO NOT BE DECEIVED: God cannot be mocked. A MAN REAPS WHAT HE SOWS. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature WILL REAP DESTRUCTION; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit WILL REAP ETERNAL LIFE.. Galatians 6:7-8

The bible is very clear on these things.

If you are teaching people that obedience to God have no bearing in their salvation then you are telling Jesus the same thing that would make His obedience to God futile and vain which would contradict the TRUTH. See hebrews 5:7-9

If you SOW disobedience to God, YOU will surely REAP destruction.

 

[stonesoffire]

Faith is always what precedes any action through Holy Spirit. Faith is just believing what God says is true.

 

[Argueless]

...If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is CONCEITED and UNDERSTANDS NOTHING. He has an unhealthy interest in CONTROVERSIES and QUARRELS ABOUT WORDS that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to your care. Turn away from godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is FALSELY CALLED KNOWLEDGE, which some have professed and in so doing have WANDERED FROM THE FAITH. Grace be with you. 1 Timothy 6:3-5,20-21

As the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD. James 2:26

 

[dcontroversal]

Your reply to what is the concept of "rightly dividing" the word of God.
"2nd Timothy 2:15 and saying that faith plus works to gain, maintain, top off, finish or keep salvation is NOT cutting straight the word of GOD......."
2 Timothy 2:15 King James Version (KJV)
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

So is "rightly dividing the word" mean: saying faith plus works to gain, maintain......... 2 Timonthy just uses "rightly dividing the word" in a sentence and does not explain what it is. Well, that is true for you. But since you hesitated to tell me the true nature of "righly divinding the word", I looked it up and here it is:

"But even beyond the type of literature, the "word of God" can be divided into two categories - LAW & GOSPEL. More important than anything else is being able to recognise (rightly divide or correctly handle) whether you are reading LAW or GOSPEL. LAW is what God demands from us, GOSPEL is what God gives to us."

So the question: Has anyone gone through the NT and rightly divided the word of truth into these 2 catagories, so that when a person reads the bible they can know whether the words they are reading pertain to the law, and which words pertain to the gospel?

Has it been suggested that the 4 gospels are really part of the law, including the words of Jesus in the 4 gospels and so do not have to be a concern for a gospel oriented Christian? And that the words of Paul are what is considered the gospel and need to be adhered to?

Can you comment on this concept now that I have introduced it to you?

The bolded is NOT what is being stated.....the verse itself states to BE diligent to be approved of GOD, a workman not ashamed <---BECAUSE the workman is CUTTING STRAIGHT the word of GOD......it has absolutely NOTHING to do with dividing God's word into two categories.....it is called TA BIBLIA---> THE BOOK.....it is ONE BOOK not two.....and CONTEXT determines the underlined above....

and my post stands....

"2nd Timothy 2:15 and saying that faith plus works to gain, maintain, top off, finish or keep salvation is NOT cutting straight the word of GOD......."

 

[GodsGrace101]

Give the definitions of the words bolded.....and of course, I absolutely expect no honesty on your part with the definitions and how they are applied.....

You're funny.

And you claim to post seriously......!

 

[GodsGrace101]

Because he knows that the meaning of obey under the new covenant means belief. Disobedience is unbelief.

Correct.
So if we do not obey....
We do not believe.
If we do not believe,,,,,we are lost.
Easy.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Walking life morally good would be an upright person. Righteous is the declaration of God over a believer. The righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. The only perfect man.

Correct again!!
And if we Do Not have Jesus,,,,we do not have His righteousness.

 

[TruthTalk]

The bolded is NOT what is being stated.....the verse itself states to BE diligent to be approved of GOD, a workman not ashamed <---BECAUSE the workman is CUTTING STRAIGHT the word of GOD......it has absolutely NOTHING to do with dividing God's word into two categories.....it is called TA BIBLIA---> THE BOOK.....it is ONE BOOK not two.....and CONTEXT determines the underlined above....

and my post stands....

"2nd Timothy 2:15 and saying that faith plus works to gain, maintain, top off, finish or keep salvation is NOT cutting straight the word of GOD......."

Thanks decon, we have one God, one Savior, one bible, etc. for a moment after reading this idea of the bible being in 2 categories I thought I was seeing double. Thanks for clearing up my double vision...

 

[Matthew55]

Faith is always what precedes any action through Holy Spirit. Faith is just believing what God says is true.

The word "believe" has a much deeper meaning than most people give it credit for.

IOW, I believe that when Jesus used the word "believe", he did not use it frivolously. If he is giving a person Eternal Life if they "believe", he means it. I don't think he means, oh good, you believe in me, now go your way and anything goes, I got you covered, even if you reject me and kill my disciples, I will forgive you and give you Eternal life with me.

When we say we believe in Jesus, and he promises you Eternal life, he expects you will follow him and do what he did and act like him and do the things that he said for us to do. And if you were frivolous when you made your pronouncement and then do not follow him, he will not give you Eternal life. Jesus will not force any person to heaven.

So don't be saying you believe in Christ and then do things that sacrifice him openly to your shame.

 

[Matthew55]

The bolded is NOT what is being stated.....the verse itself states to BE diligent to be approved of GOD, a workman not ashamed <---BECAUSE the workman is CUTTING STRAIGHT the word of GOD......it has absolutely NOTHING to do with dividing God's word into two categories.....it is called TA BIBLIA---> THE BOOK.....it is ONE BOOK not two.....and CONTEXT determines the underlined above....

and my post stands....

"2nd Timothy 2:15 and saying that faith plus works to gain, maintain, top off, finish or keep salvation is NOT cutting straight the word of GOD......."

OK, I am going to give you 2 scriptures, let me know if they are both right, according to the gospel of Christ.

John 3:16 King James Version (KJV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Matthew 6:14-15 King James Version (KJV)
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Are both scriptures part of the gospel of Jesus Christ?

 

[GodsGrace101]

The bolded is NOT what is being stated.....the verse itself states to BE diligent to be approved of GOD, a workman not ashamed <---BECAUSE the workman is CUTTING STRAIGHT the word of GOD......it has absolutely NOTHING to do with dividing God's word into two categories.....it is called TA BIBLIA---> THE BOOK.....it is ONE BOOK not two.....and CONTEXT determines the underlined above....

and my post stands....

"2nd Timothy 2:15 and saying that faith plus works to gain, maintain, top off, finish or keep salvation is NOT cutting straight the word of GOD......."

Once again you did not explain what it means.
This is for @Matthew55 too.
Please see

http://jesusalive.cc/ques167.htm