Accurately handling what rightly dividing means.

[JaumeJ]

Thank you. I need to start reading outloud. I do agree that it is important to read the scripture in its entirety.

Wow, I have been reading the Word aloud ever since I heard it is preached to the universe, or I heard it soemwhere. I know when I spent those summers and some parts of the faal in the Rockies I wanted the trees and animals andevery one to hear it.

Now I read very quietly, because the universe hears everything be it loud or almost silent. Now I have the Word read to me out loud, nice huh?

Remember the birds the fishes, the animals the vegetation the stars the planets, everything hears yu when you proounce God's words……… Good idea...……..of ocurse I would sayi that ! $Right?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I just struggle because our doctrine should be the same, to believe and receive Him. Abraham was saved by faith. Man was more primitive in the early days, so He dealt, it seems with us differently but the message is always the same, to bring His Revealing and Glory. We should all be coming to the same conclusions, eh?

I don't think God dealt differently. It has always been about faith and still is.

even the sacrifice of animals required faith to believe your sins were forgiven...and yet scripture says the blood of bulls and goats could never remove sin

you could say, I think, that the OT is a physical picture of spiritual truths revealed in the new...however, even those who broke the law for the right reason were not condemned.

people love to use the law as some sort of tool for dismissing everything else the OT reveals...(I don't mean you personally here)

there are folks on this forum who think the words of Christ do not apply to us at all...some time back, someone was teaching here that the Lord's prayer is not for us to learn from and dismissing much of what Jesus taught

that is the end result of mishandling the word

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Please don’t insult. Thank you.

We became one after the cross. Naturally, the directions befor the cross, most of them are not for the body of Christ, since the body of Christ was in mystery form.

Answer the question, did Israel under the law have to make blood sacrifices for forgiveness of sins?

I'm not insulting you

I stated what scripture states

you do not wish to acknowledge that those in Christ are BELIEVERS and not followers of doctrine

the blood of animals could never forgive sins...only the blood of Christ redeems us

how about before the law was instituted? don't you know that scripture states that even Gentiles are a law to themselves if they do what is right?

(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. Romans 2:14

and by the way.,,no one has to answer any of your questions and it means nothing at all if they choose not to respond

most people here know better than to bully their way around

 

[John146]

even the dogs got to lick up the crumbs

Jesus never turned a Gentile away who came to Him believing...which is more than we can say about the religious sects who LOVED to divide the word up while telling everyone Abraham was their father

Jesus said the devil was their father

Jesus actually came to divide the word of truth...the truth given in the OT and the new truth of the NT.

 

[JaumeJ]

Please don’t insult. Thank you.

We became one after the cross. Naturally, the directions befor the cross, most of them are not for the body of Christ, since the body of Christ was in mystery form.

Answer the question, did Israel under the law have to make blood sacrifices for forgiveness of sins?

YOu have been insu8lting many people in this forum with your unfounded and un scriptural allegations. You have insulted all gentiles referring to them as dogs……….and making allegations about the Word stting what it does not……..so you stop calling the kettle black.

 

[John146]

I'm not insulting you

I stated what scripture states

you do not wish to acknowledge that those in Christ are BELIEVERS and not followers of doctrine

Totally believe this, when did I say otherwise?

Could you answer me question?

 

[John146]

Example:

Under the law it was eye for eye...during the ministry of the Lord, it was turn the other cheek. Through Paul, the Lord says if it’s possible. The Lord gives room for self defense in an evil world.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Jesus actually came to divide the word of truth...the truth given in the OT and the new truth of the NT.

how on earth do you divide truth?

you are not making any sense

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Totally believe this, when did I say otherwise?

Could you answer me question?

I have answered YOUR question

then you make the remark Jesus came to divide the truth

Jesus said 'I am the way, the TRUTH and the life"

He has been since the beginning. ONE truth and not divided

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Example:

Under the law it was eye for eye...during the ministry of the Lord, it was turn the other cheek. Through Paul, the Lord says if it’s possible. The Lord gives room for self defense in an evil world.

well, again going back to what you said regarding the word of Jesus...I guess we don't listen to these words since Pentecost had not yet come?

or is this something it is ok to listen to...at one point did Jesus say this?

aren't you kind of backpedaling here?

Jesus also told Peter to put his sword away

so which is which in your economy? you cannot treat scripture like a smorgasbord

 

[John146]

how on earth do you divide truth?

you are not making any sense

The truth the Lord gave Adam is not the same truth He gave Noah. The truth He gave Abraham is not the same truth He gave Noah nor later to Israel through Moses, and so on. The truth that was given to the disciples is not the same given after the cross. Even through the book of Acts, truth was developing. The truth the Lord gave Paul is not the same truth given in revelation.

 

[John146]

I have answered YOUR question

then you make the remark Jesus came to divide the truth

Jesus said 'I am the way, the TRUTH and the life"

He has been since the beginning. ONE truth and not divided

Did Israel have to make blood sacrifices for forgiveness of sins?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Paul was writing to Timothy when he spoke of rightly dividing


What Did the Apostle Paul Mean by "Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth"?

The phrase “rightly dividing the word of truth” in Timothy 2:15 is unique to the King James translation. It has caused some to believe that we are to take the Word of God and somehow divide or separate passages and or books and determine who or what audience they are intended for. As a result, this verse has become a springboard for a completely different way of reading and applying scripture.

My purpose with this article is to show that this interpretation is actually a classic example of the old adage "A text without a context is a pretext for a proof text". It is a dangerous thing to take a single text from scripture and make a doctrine from it, especially if that passage has been read out of context.



I think the words in red above have hit the nail...dead center!!!

I would submit to the op that the problem, is as described above

source

 

[7seasrekeyed]

article from above continued...same source....if people have the time, I think it is worthwhile to read this article for an actual understanding of what Paul was telling Timothy. It really was never about dividing in the sense that we see being done so often here. If Jesus prayed for unity, which of course He did, then it makes no sense that all should have a different understanding and CONTEXT is KING here

Background of 2 Timothy 2
In this chapter Paul is giving instruction to Timothy on how to continue in the work of the ministry in his absence. He tells Timothy to convey the things that he has learned from him and pass them down to those whom Timothy is ministering to. He tells him to endure, to be a good soldier of Christ, not become entangled with the affairs of this life, to only concern himself with pleasing God and that he will enjoy that which he labors for.

Paul then goes on to say that even though he might be imprisoned like a criminal, that the gospel itself cannot be confined. Paul states that he is willing to endure all things for the sake of the elect of Christ, that they might obtain salvation.
Paul then sets a wonderful tone by exclaiming the promise that we all have; that if we die to this world and are willing to endure hardships, that we would have eternal life with Christ. Even though we are unfaithful, Christ is faithful and that He cannot deny us if we live in Him.

Paul knew that this was the very essence of faith and of the gospel message, that it is a message that all believers would need to hear and comprehend. The hardships that the church was enduring and was yet to endure would test the faith and resolve of those who believed in Christ.

In verse 14 Paul pleads with Timothy to charge them with these very important aspects of the Christian faith, then Paul gets into an area that he knew would be an issue among believers; the striving and arguing with one another that does not profit or benefit the body of Christ. Paul knew very that this would lead to ruin and dissolution the the hearers of the gospel.

Just think for a moment about the impression that those who are not Christians get of us when they witness us being divisive over trivial words and things. How much pleasure Satan must get when we argue among ourselves over doctrines and words when it is the simple gospel message that the world needs to hear and by which they are saved. If we can not speak to each other with kindness and love, then our faith and testimony will appear to be hypocritical to others. We are commanded to love one another, we are not licensed to berate or be hateful to anyone.

article from above continued...same source

 

[7seasrekeyed]

The truth the Lord gave Adam is not the same truth He gave Noah. The truth He gave Abraham is not the same truth He gave Noah nor later to Israel through Moses, and so on. The truth that was given to the disciples is not the same given after the cross. Even through the book of Acts, truth was developing. The truth the Lord gave Paul is not the same truth given in revelation.

you are in real trouble if that is what you actually believe

I fully expect you would argue with the portion of the article I sourced but divide and divide the truth is...nonsense

 

[John146]

The truth the Lord gave Adam is not the same truth He gave Noah. The truth He gave Abraham is not the same truth He gave Noah nor later to Israel through Moses, and so on. The truth that was given to the disciples is not the same given after the cross. Even through the book of Acts, truth was developing. The truth the Lord gave Paul is not the same truth given in revelation.

So the directions are all the same?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Textual Analysis

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.​

Now we get to the crux of this topic. In verse 15 the KJV has Paul telling Timothy to study that he might be approved of by God, a workman (G2040 ergatés) which is a reference back to verses 5 and 6, this word ergatés is elsewhere used as “field workers”, “laborers”, etc., who should not be ashamed, and rightly dividing (G3718orthotomeō) the word of truth. The Greek word orthotomeō only appears once in the New Testament. The Strong’s Concordance defines it like this:

1. to cut straight, to cut straight ways A to proceed on straight paths, hold a straight course, equiv. to doing right
2. to make straight and smooth, to handle aright, to teach the truth directly and correctly

One can only guess why the KJV translators chose the phrase “rightly dividing” instead of “rightly teach” or “cutting straight”, I would suggest that in 1611 “rightly dividing” might have had a different meaning than how we use it today. Given the context of this verse and the surrounding text, I think that it is appropriate that we closely examine the true meaning of this phrase.
Although the word orthotomeō was not used, a similar message was given by John the Baptist when he quoted Isaiah by stating “Make straight the way of the Lord” in John 1:23. John used the word G3588 euthunó, which means:

1. to make straight, level, plain
2. to lead or guide straight, to keep straight or direct: A of the steersman or helmsman of a ship B of a charioteer

So, we have two people who are both giving instruction make a clear and straight path. The meanings are identical with the same intention in mind. They are in effect stating that no obstacle should be allowed to get in the way of what is truth.

article continued

 

[John146]

you are in real trouble if that is what you actually believe

I fully expect you would argue with the portion of the article I sourced but divide and divide the truth is...nonsense

So the directions are all the same? Why didn’t Abraham build an ark? Why don’t you make blood sacrifices for your sins? Are you avoiding the mark of the beast?

 

[John146]

Textual Analysis

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.​

Now we get to the crux of this topic. In verse 15 the KJV has Paul telling Timothy to study that he might be approved of by God, a workman (G2040 ergatés) which is a reference back to verses 5 and 6, this word ergatés is elsewhere used as “field workers”, “laborers”, etc., who should not be ashamed, and rightly dividing (G3718orthotomeō) the word of truth. The Greek word orthotomeō only appears once in the New Testament. The Strong’s Concordance defines it like this:

1. to cut straight, to cut straight ways A to proceed on straight paths, hold a straight course, equiv. to doing right
2. to make straight and smooth, to handle aright, to teach the truth directly and correctly

One can only guess why the KJV translators chose the phrase “rightly dividing” instead of “rightly teach” or “cutting straight”, I would suggest that in 1611 “rightly dividing” might have had a different meaning than how we use it today. Given the context of this verse and the surrounding text, I think that it is appropriate that we closely examine the true meaning of this phrase.
Although the word orthotomeō was not used, a similar message was given by John the Baptist when he quoted Isaiah by stating “Make straight the way of the Lord” in John 1:23. John used the word G3588 euthunó, which means:

1. to make straight, level, plain
2. to lead or guide straight, to keep straight or direct: A of the steersman or helmsman of a ship B of a charioteer

So, we have two people who are both giving instruction make a clear and straight path. The meanings are identical with the same intention in mind. They are in effect stating that no obstacle should be allowed to get in the way of what is truth.

article continued

The context is within the passage. Let’s stay there. There were some teaching the truth of a resurrection, but that the resurrection had already passed overthrowing the faith of some. By rightly dividing, we understand this truth has not occurred but is future. There was a resurrection of the OT saints, but that truth is not for Christ’s body.

 

[John146]

Are we to tithe out of necessity or give willingly from a cheerful heart?

Give unreservedly to those who ask or requiring work to eat?