Not By Works
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That type of rejection is exactly why you are missing the mark.....are you seriously that dense to believe what Paul said about HIMSELF is false and overridden by your view? That type of reasoning is exactly why there is every wind of dogma that leads men astray......do not engage me if you cannot be honest with the word of God.....
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Scriptures is clear, Paul preached to both jews and gentiles, but his MAIN MINISTRY and MAIN MISSION was to be an APOSTLE to the GENTILES:
Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
We are Christians, we can argue about everything!
Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
We are Christians, we can argue about everything!
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I was not arguing....I posted facts, he double down....I posted more fact and he triple down and is now pitting the bible against itself.....exactly why many are in false religions and or missing the mark.....the bible does not now or ever pit itself against itself....Paul was clear and so is the definite article "THE" in the statement.....I am the apostle of the Gentiles
In English, "the" is called the "definite article" because it also makes the thing it points to "definite", and the Greek article is often best translated with "the"
THE apostle OF THE GENTILES <----this is as clear as can be......
In English, "the" is called the "definite article" because it also makes the thing it points to "definite", and the Greek article is often best translated with "the"
THE apostle OF THE GENTILES <----this is as clear as can be......
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Hi cv5
Nice to have a decent discussion with you.
Here are my comments on what you wrote above.
Not too much to say about knowing God and Jesus. Jesus was making the point that He is God.
Many were surprised because He spoke with authority.
Mathew 7:29
We will die in our sins if we do not believe that Jesus left His home in heaven to come and tell us the truth. He who was Great became nothing...so that we who are nothing might become great.
IF we ABIDE in HIS WORD. I like that. Abide means to live...if we LIVE with Him and dwell with Him and in HIS word then we will know the truth. And what is the truth? Jesus came to liberate us from the bondage of sin and to get us admission into heaven.
Yes, some do not hear His words and so they do not find true freedom. True freedom is when we follow God and not the enemy. We were lost and following the enemy from our beginning. Whoever is of God hears the words of God.
John 10:26-27
Those who do not hear the words of God do not belong to God.
1 Corinthians 2:14
Not by bread alone....physical need
But by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.....spiritual need
Nice to have a decent discussion with you.
Here are my comments on what you wrote above.
Not too much to say about knowing God and Jesus. Jesus was making the point that He is God.
Many were surprised because He spoke with authority.
Mathew 7:29
We will die in our sins if we do not believe that Jesus left His home in heaven to come and tell us the truth. He who was Great became nothing...so that we who are nothing might become great.
IF we ABIDE in HIS WORD. I like that. Abide means to live...if we LIVE with Him and dwell with Him and in HIS word then we will know the truth. And what is the truth? Jesus came to liberate us from the bondage of sin and to get us admission into heaven.
Yes, some do not hear His words and so they do not find true freedom. True freedom is when we follow God and not the enemy. We were lost and following the enemy from our beginning. Whoever is of God hears the words of God.
John 10:26-27
Those who do not hear the words of God do not belong to God.
1 Corinthians 2:14
Not by bread alone....physical need
But by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.....spiritual need
Paul was a pharisee of the pharisees.
A real Jew...law and all.
Sometimes we might forget what a background he had.
And super intelligent too.
In Romans 9 to 11 he's addressing the problem of the Jews not accepting this new Chrisitanity and how the Jews have to be a part of it.
He was much to complicated to understand in a simple way.
His teachings were too difficult to just understand from reading them...
it could sound like he was teaching what he really was not.
Why is it law vs grace?
Is law not present in the New Covenant?
Was grace not present in the Old Testament?
They were both always present....
A real Jew...law and all.
Sometimes we might forget what a background he had.
And super intelligent too.
In Romans 9 to 11 he's addressing the problem of the Jews not accepting this new Chrisitanity and how the Jews have to be a part of it.
He was much to complicated to understand in a simple way.
His teachings were too difficult to just understand from reading them...
it could sound like he was teaching what he really was not.
Why is it law vs grace?
Is law not present in the New Covenant?
Was grace not present in the Old Testament?
They were both always present....
And there was me thinking that being right with God was having faith in Jesus for redemption
Romans 3:21-26
God’s Righteousness Through Faith
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Romans 5:1-5
Faith Triumphs in Trouble
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; 4 and perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
We are right when God through faith in Jesus, who died and rose again to reconcile us back to the Father.
Not by works.
Good disciples.
Luke 18:19
19 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus asked him. “Only God is truly good.
18:19: Why do you call me good? The man was calling Jesus “good” as a general compliment, but only God is truly good. Jesus was challenging the man’s understanding of goodness—true goodness requires moral perfection. (Study notes NLT)
We cannot and will never merit our own righteousness of God that saves us and not us being good disciples.
That does not negate us from wanting to be like Jesus in any way shape or form.
That should be our desire.
But it does not make us righteous.
Romans 3:21-26
God’s Righteousness Through Faith
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Romans 5:1-5
Faith Triumphs in Trouble
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; 4 and perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
We are right when God through faith in Jesus, who died and rose again to reconcile us back to the Father.
Not by works.
Good disciples.
Luke 18:19
19 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus asked him. “Only God is truly good.
18:19: Why do you call me good? The man was calling Jesus “good” as a general compliment, but only God is truly good. Jesus was challenging the man’s understanding of goodness—true goodness requires moral perfection. (Study notes NLT)
We cannot and will never merit our own righteousness of God that saves us and not us being good disciples.
That does not negate us from wanting to be like Jesus in any way shape or form.
That should be our desire.
But it does not make us righteous.
I truly don't believe it was a refutation. Paul felt sorry for his brethren and wanted to bring them on board. He did his best to try to explain to them the love God had for them and how they were supposed to change internally and not try to be saved by works alone. Faith was required...they had forgotten this.
Israel was in a dormant state due to the oppression of the Romans.
Israel was in a dormant state due to the oppression of the Romans.
how is it non-sense/
if our salvation is maintained by works, and these are the ultimate set of good work standards, then how can we be maintained by works if there is not a formula as to how many good works we do?
so, my question is, if we are maintained by works, the Sermon on the mount is the high standard of good works, then how are you maintaining your salvation by works if you are not keeping these all the time?
if our salvation is maintained by works, and these are the ultimate set of good work standards, then how can we be maintained by works if there is not a formula as to how many good works we do?
so, my question is, if we are maintained by works, the Sermon on the mount is the high standard of good works, then how are you maintaining your salvation by works if you are not keeping these all the time?
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I end up never being able to have a good discussion with you.
I've asked many times for a yes or no answer to the following which IS answerable:
Are we REQUIRED to obey God?
Never have gotten a yes or no answer.
What you ask has no sense to it because everyone knows the answer.
It doesn't change for anyone.
Do YOU think it's possible to obey God 24/7?
What answer are you looking for?
Yes. I'm perfect and sinless.
No. I've broken ONE LAW, so I've broken them all and cannot rely on myself and just gave up.
Either one is wrong.
I've asked many times for a yes or no answer to the following which IS answerable:
Are we REQUIRED to obey God?
Never have gotten a yes or no answer.
What you ask has no sense to it because everyone knows the answer.
It doesn't change for anyone.
Do YOU think it's possible to obey God 24/7?
What answer are you looking for?
Yes. I'm perfect and sinless.
No. I've broken ONE LAW, so I've broken them all and cannot rely on myself and just gave up.
Either one is wrong.
Right.
But WHICH law?
The civil law?
The ceremonial law?
The moral law?
One was NOT abolished.
One was given by God and is a part of God's nature and will always be in effect.
One did not become obsolete after resurrection and the New Covenant.
In the O.C. the law was written on stone...
In the N.C. the law is written on the heart
Jeremiah 31:33
But the Moral Law is still present.
But WHICH law?
The civil law?
The ceremonial law?
The moral law?
One was NOT abolished.
One was given by God and is a part of God's nature and will always be in effect.
One did not become obsolete after resurrection and the New Covenant.
In the O.C. the law was written on stone...
In the N.C. the law is written on the heart
Jeremiah 31:33
But the Moral Law is still present.
The same idea is used to justify "all sin is equal" which demonstrates an absolute lack of knowledge and proves they have only been quoted James and run with it without checking the rest of the Bible.
If all sin is equal, why is there varying degrees of punishments for sins in the Torah? Makes no sense. It makes even less sense when applied to reality, our entire court systems operate on that principle. Imagine if we gave everyone the same fine for everything? Would be ridicilous.
But yeah, you are right, its neither sinless perfection nor devil in the flesh sinning every minute.
Its a lifestyle of obedience. Thats the path of the saved man or woman.
Very simple.
If all sin is equal, why is there varying degrees of punishments for sins in the Torah? Makes no sense. It makes even less sense when applied to reality, our entire court systems operate on that principle. Imagine if we gave everyone the same fine for everything? Would be ridicilous.
But yeah, you are right, its neither sinless perfection nor devil in the flesh sinning every minute.
Its a lifestyle of obedience. Thats the path of the saved man or woman.
Very simple.
Must go, but yes, I agree with you.
James is very misunderstood.
James 2:10
10For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
He was talking about how we're supposed to love each other.
If we sin in this case, it's as if we've sinned in ALL.
This does not mean that if we commit one sin, it's like we've committed them all so we have to be perfect. It just means that God is offended by one sin as He is with 10 sins. GOD is PERFECT and we offend Him by sinning.
Scripture does speak about degrees of sin, but I can't look for the verses right now.
One says that we receive more stripes if we commit a particular sin, can't remember right now.
John said to pray, but some sins lead to death and we cannot pray for those.
Jesus said a sin will not be forgiven in the age or the next...
Also, I'd rather someone hate me than murder me.
Jesus was speaking to our heart condition...and that it's the heart that has to change.
The "more stripes" would be a comment made by Jesus on your reference to the Torah...which Jesus knew by heart, of course.
Also, what about the idea that sometimes the James verse is used to kind of say that maybe we should just give up since we can't be perfect? I have heard this too.
James is very misunderstood.
James 2:10
10For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
He was talking about how we're supposed to love each other.
If we sin in this case, it's as if we've sinned in ALL.
This does not mean that if we commit one sin, it's like we've committed them all so we have to be perfect. It just means that God is offended by one sin as He is with 10 sins. GOD is PERFECT and we offend Him by sinning.
Scripture does speak about degrees of sin, but I can't look for the verses right now.
One says that we receive more stripes if we commit a particular sin, can't remember right now.
John said to pray, but some sins lead to death and we cannot pray for those.
Jesus said a sin will not be forgiven in the age or the next...
Also, I'd rather someone hate me than murder me.
Jesus was speaking to our heart condition...and that it's the heart that has to change.
The "more stripes" would be a comment made by Jesus on your reference to the Torah...which Jesus knew by heart, of course.
Also, what about the idea that sometimes the James verse is used to kind of say that maybe we should just give up since we can't be perfect? I have heard this too.
