Does God want us to choose between law and grace?

[Grandpa]

Clue
What shielded Jesus from lusting after a woman?

Galatians 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

 

[Tim416]

If you look at the definition in the Hebrew- Greek you will see it is a matter of intensity of desire along with the “object” of that desire.
Covetousness (Heb. ḥāmad, to “desire”; beṣaʼ, “dishonest gain”; Gk. pleoneksia, “the wish to have more”). An inordinate desire for what one has not; in NASB this word is translated “greed”; its basis lies in discontentment with what one has. It has an element of lawlessness and is sinful because it is contrary to the command “Being content with what you have” (Heb 13:5),0

The verb is also used in a good sense (1Co 12:31- “but earnestly desire the greater gifts”).

Paul said, the letter of the Ten Commandments kills. He said that letter was the ministry of death and condemnation (2Cor3:6-9)
He gave an example of why he had to die to righteousness of obeying the law. The example he gave was: Thou shalt not covet. (rom7
I know the letter of that law kills, and I would agree with the example Paul gave as to why it kills(though it can be said to kill in other areas too)
Speaking personally, the more guilty I see I am according to that letter, the more gratitude and love I can have for God in sending his son to die for me.

 

[Tim416]

Synonyms don't always have the exact same definition. Covet is stronger than desire. I can have a desire for a brownie but not covet it. All normal men when they see a woman or picture of a woman are programed to have an amount of desire. At 74 I learned in my teenage years after going through puberty to just let it go through my mind and throw it in my mental trash bin. The more I tried to fight it the harder it came. I still remember the shock of it happening the first time. In Jr. High when a class let out this nice girl came down the row while I was gathering by books. That desire caught me. As time went on the more I fought this desire the harder it came. Covet implies holding on to the desire and enjoying it. I learned to just let it happen and then ignore it. All part of going through puberty and becoming a man.

I was always convicted of sin as I went through puberty, for the law was in my heart and mind, and I had inner conviction of what was sin. I did not need to rely on synonyms to understand

 

[WalkingTree]

Speaking personally, the more guilty I see I am according to that letter, the more gratitude and love I can have for God in sending his son to die for me.

However, as always, there are two sides to this coin. One is to meditate on how the depths of our sin magnifies the mercy of Jesus, and so excuse the sin within. Believing it remains.

As the other focuses on the fact that not only is Jesus merciful enough to forgive, he is also willing and able to clean the sin from our hearts.

I see too many focus on the mercy yet neglect the cleansing. So excusing there sins because they think Jesus only forgives. But he not only calls to forgive he also intends to purify, in the here and now.

 

[Grandpa]

I was always convicted of sin as I went through puberty, for the law was in my heart and mind, and I had inner conviction of what was sin. I did not need to rely on synonyms to understand

So you thought you were a vessel made for destruction?

Unable to be righteous before God.

Or did you think you weren't THAT bad, maybe you were just bending laws and not breaking the actual law?

 

[Tim416]

If you look at the definition in the Hebrew- Greek you will see it is a matter of intensity of desire along with the “object” of that desire.
Covetousness (Heb. ḥāmad, to “desire”; beṣaʼ, “dishonest gain”; Gk. pleoneksia, “the wish to have more”). An inordinate desire for what one has not; in NASB this word is translated “greed”; its basis lies in discontentment with what one has. It has an element of lawlessness and is sinful because it is contrary to the command “Being content with what you have” (Heb 13:5),

The verb is also used in a good sense (1Co 12:31- “but earnestly desire the greater gifts”).

This was covetousnesss to Paul:
For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.


16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.


17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.


18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.


19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.


20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.


21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.


22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:


23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

However, as always, there are two sides to this coin. One is to meditate on how the depths of our sin magnifies the mercy of Jesus, and so excuse the sin within. Believing it remains.

As the other focuses on the fact that not only is Jesus merciful enough to forgive, he is also willing and able to clean the sin from our hearts.

I see too many focus on the mercy yet neglect the cleansing. So excusing there sins because they think Jesus only forgives. But he not only calls to forgive he also intends to purify, in the here and now.

You in your heart want to follow what is in your heart. You cannot seek to excuse what is in your heart and mind. Because that is where God placed his laws in me, I have no excuse for sin, and have no rest or peace if I commit 'wilfull sin'' until I come before my Father in Heaven and tell him I am sorry for my folly.
Nor do I havew the liuxury of dumbing the law within me down from the pristine level it is set at. It amazes, and I say this sincerely, how some who clainm to obey the ten commandments can do that. It is a world I know nothing of

 

[Tim416]

So you thought you were a vessel made for destruction?

Unable to be righteous before God.

Or did you think you weren't THAT bad, maybe you were just bending laws and not breaking the actual law?

When I went through puberty, I in effect lived under righteousness of obeying the law. So as I could not be righteous before God, I gave up with church for a few years. I firmly believed in God and His Son who died for me. I just could not be good enough for Him.
Did I think I was not that bad?
I felt dirty, useless, and thoroughly ashamed of my imperfections.

 

[Grandpa]

When I went through puberty, I in effect lived under righteousness of obeying the law. So as I could not be righteous before God, I gave up with church for a few years. I firmly believed in God and His Son who died for me. I just could not be good enough for Him.
Did I think I was not that bad?
I felt dirty, useless, and thoroughly ashamed of my imperfections.

How could you live under righteousness of obeying the law and then later say you could not be righteous before God?

Was that just a typo or some weird belief?

I have to address that before I ask the next question.

 

[Tim416]

How could you live under righteousness of obeying the law and then later say you could not be righteous before God?

Was that just a typo or some weird belief?

I have to address that before I ask the next question.

You think it is impossible, due to not knowing the Gospel message to in effect live under righteousness of observing the law? And when you fail, as you must, you do not realise you cannot be righteous by obeying the law? The only thing that amazes me, is people who do in effect live under righteousness of obeying the law, actually believing they can then be righteous before God

 

[Grandpa]

You think it is impossible, due to not knowing the Gospel message to in effect live under righteousness of observing the law? And when you fail, as you must, you do not realise you cannot be righteous by obeying the law? The only thing that amazes me, is people who do in effect live under righteousness of obeying the law, actually believing they can then be righteous before God

This is pretty much what I was afraid of, for you.

It wasn't a typo. You actually believe this.

How could you POSSIBLY think that you lived under the righteousness of observing the law if it convicted you of sin???

If you are convicted of sin you are NOT RIGHTEOUS. Only if you are convicted of Righteousness are you Righteous.

 

[Tim416]

This is pretty much what I was afraid of, for you.

It wasn't a typo. You actually believe this.

How could you POSSIBLY think that you lived under the righteousness of observing the law if it convicted you of sin???

If you are convicted of sin you are NOT RIGHTEOUS. Only if you are convicted of Righteousness are you Righteous.

You seem not to understand a simple fact. Many people, in reality try to be righteous/be in a justified state by obeying the moral law. Churches are full of such people. They beg God's forgiveness everytime they fail, fearing hell due to slightest imperfections. Then they start again, trying to be good enough under the law. It takes people time(in the real world) to reaslise it is a forlorn hope, and they have no chance of being righteous under the law.

 

[Endoscopy]

I was always convicted of sin as I went through puberty, for the law was in my heart and mind, and I had inner conviction of what was sin. I did not need to rely on synonyms to understand

God gave men the desire when looking at a woman or picture of a woman for a reason. It drives

I was always convicted of sin as I went through puberty, for the law was in my heart and mind, and I had inner conviction of what was sin. I did not need to rely on synonyms to understand

The point was synonyms are not always the exact same thing. Covet is much stronger than desire. Therein lies the problem. Desire is needed but not to allow it to rise to the level of covet.

 

[Endoscopy]

God gave men the desire when looking at a woman or picture of a woman for a reason. It drives
The point was synonyms are not always the exact same thing. Covet is much stronger than desire. Therein lies the problem. Desire is needed but not to allow it to rise to the level of covet.

Who messed up this post of mine and left my name on it??!!??

 

[Endoscopy]

You seem not to understand a simple fact. Many people, in reality try to be righteous/be in a justified state by obeying the moral law. Churches are full of such people. They beg God's forgiveness everytime they fail, fearing hell due to slightest imperfections. Then they start again, trying to be good enough under the law. It takes people time(in the real world) to reaslise it is a forlorn hope, and they have no chance of being righteous under the law.

Did you add your comments to my post and leave the authorship in my name? If so why???

 

[Dino246]

It is not my assumption, it is the dictionary definition, covet means desire. Which in my view, is why many are happy to insinuate they fully obey the Ten Commandments, not understanding what that entails.
In truth, if you have been born again, and the law is in your most inward parts, and you are in earnest to obey it, believing youtr righteousness hinges on obeying it, you will start out desiring most women you come across, then end up consumed by all manner of concupiscence, for what happened to Saul happens to multitudes today. For:
The power of sin is the law 1Cor15:56 You are just feeding sins power by that route. hence:
For sin shall not be your master, for you are not under law but under grace Rom6:14

The above does not mean you will be sinless in your flesh, no believer will ever reach that state, but neither will you be consumed by all manner of concupiscence if you truly live under grace

In the context of the tenth commandment, "covet" means to desire to acquire or have something that is not available to acquire or have. The verse notes people and things "belonging to your neighbor"... or in marketing terms, "not for sale". It further implies that despite the unavailability of the person or thing, you continue to focus on the desire for it.

If simple desire were the point, then ALL barter and trade, whether involving money or not, would be inherently sinful. Given that Scripture records trade between willing participants, that cannot be the correct interpretation.

 

[Grandpa]

You seem not to understand a simple fact. Many people, in reality try to be righteous/be in a justified state by obeying the moral law. Churches are full of such people. They beg God's forgiveness everytime they fail, fearing hell due to slightest imperfections. Then they start again, trying to be good enough under the law. It takes people time(in the real world) to reaslise it is a forlorn hope, and they have no chance of being righteous under the law.

I understand all of that.

How come you didn't answer the question I asked you?

How could you POSSIBLY think that you lived under the righteousness of observing the law if it convicted you of sin???

Why would you call it "righteousness" if it didn't make you righteous before God???

I'm trying to help you see something but it doesn't look like it is possible.

 

[garee]

God gave men the desire when looking at a woman or picture of a woman for a reason. It drives

God is not tempted and neither does he temp.

That is the god of this world working in his three avenues.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Before the fall they had some sort of glow being in the presence of the glory of God clothing them as the presence of the righteousness of Christ as bright as the Sun . When God corrupted the first creation they tried to cover their nakedness intimately reserved for husband and wife eyes only.

 

[Endoscopy]

God gave men the desire when looking at a woman or picture of a woman for a reason. It drives

God is not tempted and neither does he temp.

That is the god of this world working in his three avenues.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Before the fall they had some sort of glow being in the presence of the glory of God clothing them as the presence of the righteousness of Christ as bright as the Sun . When God corrupted the first creation they tried to cover their nakedness intimately reserved for husband and wife eyes only.

The quote of mine was truncated.

God gave men the desire when looking at a woman or picture of a woman for a reason. It drives men, even if shy, to seek out their life partner in marriage.

 

[Endoscopy]

Why was my quote truncated?

 

[Endoscopy]

I have asked previously and no one has answered why Tim416 comments were inserted into my post and truncated my comment. I'm pissed about this!!!