Jesus's sacrifice

[Journeyman]

I often hear people say that Jesus was looked at as sinful by his father when he was hanging on the cross, but I never see the bible saying God viewed his son like that. I see God always testifying of his son as holy, good, pure and righteous.

And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Mt.3:17

It seems to me the only way Jesus is ever thought of as sinful, is by false accusers and those who believed their lies.

They answered him, “If this man were not doing evil, we would not have delivered him over to you.” Jn.18:30

 

[John146]

I often hear people say that Jesus was looked at as sinful by his father when he was hanging on the cross, but I never see the bible saying God viewed his son like that. I see God always testifying of his son as holy, good, pure and righteous.

And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Mt.3:17

It seems to me the only way Jesus is ever thought of as sinful, is by false accusers and those who believed their lies.

They answered him, “If this man were not doing evil, we would not have delivered him over to you.” Jn.18:30

Scripture does tell us that Christ became sin for us, who knew no sin. The sins of the world were placed upon His body. Holy God cannot look at sin, even the sin placed upon His Son.

Habakkuk 1:13 Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he?

 

[Magenta]

Galatians 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming
a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”

 

[Journeyman]

Scripture does tell us that Christ became sin for us, who knew no sin.

I believe Jesus was viewed as sinful, but not by his father.

The sins of the world were placed upon His body. Holy God cannot look at sin, even the sin placed upon His Son.

Habakkuk 1:13 Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he?

God sees all, both good and evil (Pro.15:3).

And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. Gen.6:5

Jesus did suffer the sins in this world, but unjustly.

For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. Heb.12:3

 

[John146]

I believe Jesus was viewed as sinful, but not by his father.


God sees all, both good and evil (Pro.15:3).

And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. Gen.6:5

Jesus did suffer the sins in this world, but unjustly.

For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. Heb.12:3

We either have a contradiction in Scripture or something else is going on. Do you think Holy God looks upon pornography? Murder? etc...

My view is, He does not. He cannot behold iniquity. He is the Holy God. That would oppose His very nature. God is too pure to even look upon sin.

Yet, Scripture states He sees everything. What say ye?

Does the Lord have "eyes" that go to and fro upon the earth, reporting back to Him the sinfulness of man?

 

[Journeyman]

Galatians 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming
a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”

That's true, but in Gal.3:13, Paul is quoting Deut. 21:23 and the only justifiable way a person could be cursed is if he actually committed a sin worthy of death as Deut.21:22 says. So even the belief that Jesus was cursed was a lie.

 

[Journeyman]

We either have a contradiction in Scripture or something else is going on. Do you think Holy God looks upon pornography? Murder? etc...

My view is, He does not. He cannot behold iniquity. He is the Holy God. That would oppose His very nature. God is too pure to even look upon sin.

Yet, Scripture states He sees everything. What say ye?

Does the Lord have "eyes" that go to and fro upon the earth, reporting back to Him the sinfulness of man?

I think the passage you cited from Habakkuk means that God doesn't look on evil without doing something about it.

wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he?

He's asking God why he doesn't put an end to wickedness right away.

 

[Lanolin]

I remember a hymn about Jesus death that has the lyrics of him hanging on the cross and how our Father looks away.

This is because He cant bear to see his own sons death at the hands of wicked men.

I am not sure that I ever heard that God would condemn his own son to die, only by false accusers or people with a somewhat warped view of God. Jesus knew He had to face death for all mankind, and that God would raise Him up, but as far as assigning blame or responisbilty for God for his death, I think some people go a bit far in attributing evil to God. God only allows evil so that good may come.

When God told abraham to sacrifice his own son, it wasnt because Isaac was sinful. He was seeing if Abraham would obey. Besides the angel stopped this from happening, it was a test. As for Jesus, he was obedient even unto death. GOd does say obedience is better than sacrifice.

Imagine if the people that accuse God of seeing Jesus as sinful had their way, followin their logic then everyone of us will be seen as sinful and we all ought to sacrifice ourselves to die. Suicide would then be a good thing to do that would satisfy God?! GOd forbid! Our Father loves us.

 

[obedienttogod]

I believe Jesus was viewed as sinful, but not by his father.

It's the "why hast thou forsaken Me"

Matthew 27:46
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Some interpret this to mean that Yahweh turned His head from looking upon Yeshua, since Yeshua had become sin. And Yeshua, never being apart from Yahweh, felt that sudden separation and cried out.

 

[John146]

It's the "why hast thou forsaken Me"

Matthew 27:46
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Some interpret this to mean that Yahweh turned His head from looking upon Yeshua, since Yeshua had become sin. And Yeshua, never being apart from Yahweh, felt that sudden separation and cried out.

It should be noted that up until that point, Jesus always addressed God as His Father, but at the point He became sin for us, Jesus cries out My God, My God...the intimacy between Father and Son was temporarily lost. Christ was alone.

 

[tourist]

It should be noted that up until that point, Jesus always addressed God as His Father, but at the point He became sin for us, Jesus cries out My God, My God...the intimacy between Father and Son was temporarily lost. Christ was alone.

I believe that the most painful part of Jesus dying on the cross for our sins is the separation that now existed between Him and the Father. A day is like a 1000 years and a 1000 years a day in the eyes of the Lord. Jesus was dead for 3 days so that is an unbearable amount of time to be separated from the love of the Father. That was truly hell that Jesus endured for us because of His love towards us.

 

[Journeyman]

It's the "why hast thou forsaken Me"

Matthew 27:46
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Some interpret this to mean that Yahweh turned His head from looking upon Yeshua, since Yeshua had become sin. And Yeshua, never being apart from Yahweh, felt that sudden separation and cried out.

I know people interpret Jesus's words that way, but again, Jesus is quoting the Old Testament, Psalm 22, which is a Psalm showing that God never forsaken the righteous.

 

[obedienttogod]

I know people interpret Jesus's words that way, but again, Jesus is quoting the Old Testament, Psalm 22, which is a Psalm showing that God never forsaken the righteous.

No, He is not quoting Psalms, He is fulfilling the prophecy mentioned in Psalms.

 

[Journeyman]

It should be noted that up until that point, Jesus always addressed God as His Father, but at the point He became sin for us, Jesus cries out My God, My God...the intimacy between Father and Son was temporarily lost. Christ was alone.

Did you ever think Jesus cried out because of what evil sinners were saying about him at the cross?

He saved others; himself he cannot save. Mt.27:42

It seems Jesus quoted Psa.22 to show that even when people think God has forsaken us, he never does. Read psalm 22. Its all about how God delivers people in trouble. And besides this, Jesus didn't need saving, but those mocking him did. They had it backwards.

 

[Journeyman]

No, He is not quoting Psalms, He is fulfilling the prophecy mentioned in Psalms.

He's doing both and the bible says,

For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. 1Pet.2:20

And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him. Jn.8:29

Jesus suffered unjustly at the hands of sinner, for obeying his father. The religious leaders who wanted him dead would have understood why he quoted Psa.22.

 

[obedienttogod]

He's doing both and the bible says,

For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. 1Pet.2:20

And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him. Jn.8:29

Jesus suffered unjustly at the hands of sinner, for obeying his father. The religious leaders who wanted him dead would have understood why he quoted Psa.22.

I seriously doubt while Yeshua was dying on the CROSS, He thought to Himself, I better say Eli Eli lama sabachthani? so I can quote David in the Book of Psalms.

It's ludicrous to believe such a thing!!

 

[Journeyman]

I seriously doubt while Yeshua was dying on the CROSS, He thought to Himself, I better say Eli Eli lama sabachthani? so I can quote David in the Book of Psalms.

I don't doubt it. Psa.22 has King David prophesying of Jesus's unjust suffering at the hands of wicked men,

For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard. Psa.22:24

It's ludicrous to believe such a thing!!

I don't think it's ludicrous. The scribes could quote their scriptures frontwards and backwards, but didn't understand them. What seems ludicrous is that God would even for one second forsake his word.

 

[Magenta]

That's true, but in Gal.3:13, Paul is quoting Deut. 21:23 and the only justifiable way a person could be cursed is if he actually committed a sin worthy of death as Deut.21:22 says. So even the belief that Jesus was cursed was a lie.

The verse I gave does not say Jesus was cursed but that He became a curse for us.

 

[tourist]

Did you ever think Jesus cried out because of what evil sinners were saying about him at the cross?

He certainly didn't cry out because what people were saying while He was dying on the cross but rather because the Father had forsaken him. In agony, Jesus asked the Father why? The answer to this question is contained in the bible. People have said bad stuff to me through the years and I could really care squat what they said. Another thing, these evil sinners you mention were actually you and me. It's OK though, 'cause Jesus asked the Father to forgive us for we know not what we do.

 

[Journeyman]

The verse I gave does not say Jesus was cursed but that He became a curse for us.

Paul's statement is based on the scripture he quoted, which says anyone hanging on a tree is cursed, but the reason for hanging anyone was that the person's committed a sin worth death, which Jesus didn't. So any belief in Jesus being made a curse would only be true if he was lied against.