Is the Great Commission irrelevant for the church now?

[Guojing]

Some arguments why

1. The term "Great Commission" was never in the Bible, and Bible translators only added that in the heading.
2. Matthew's version, the most popular one, had Jesus instructing them to teach others to follow "everything" he has taught them, which if you read the entire Gospel of Matthew, had instructions which are clearly incompatible with Paul's Gospel. "Sell all you have'. 'do not go into the Gentiles' 'I was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel', 'Follow what the Pharisees instruct you as they sat on Moses's seat' etc.
3. John's version had an instruction that only the Roman Catholic church practiced, 20:23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.” No Protestant church that I know of practice this.
4. Mark's version said you must believe AND be baptized to be saved, safe to say, not many churches follow the latter. Furthermore, no church would tell their Gentile believers to pick up serpents as a sign now.
5. Luke's version say you must start from Jerusalem, obviously from what Paul said in Romans 9-11, that avenue is now closed since the vast majority of the Jews rejected the gospel.

What do the rest of you think?

 

[Locutus]

In a sense there was a "great commission" that the early followers of Jesus especially the 12 were entrusted with until the "end came" upon the apostate Jews and their city aka the home of the whore of Babylon:

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Paul stated he had finished his course, and the gospel had been heard in the nations "under heaven":

Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

2 Tim 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith.

It's not like the gospel is hidden under a bushel

 

[Lanolin]

What are you talking about. CAn you explain what you are trying to argue...???

Am sure that if people dont know that Jesus Christ the son of God rose from the dead to save us from our sins and give us eternal life, we ought to tell them this good news. We cant make anyone believe, but they need to know.

How else does anyone know about Jesus? Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

 

[JaumeJ]

Some arguments why

1. The term "Great Commission" was never in the Bible, and Bible translators only added that in the heading.
2. Matthew's version, the most popular one, had Jesus instructing them to teach others to follow "everything" he has taught them, which if you read the entire Gospel of Matthew, had instructions which are clearly incompatible with Paul's Gospel. "Sell all you have'. 'do not go into the Gentiles' 'I was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel', 'Follow what the Pharisees instruct you as they sat on Moses's seat' etc.
3. John's version had an instruction that only the Roman Catholic church practiced, 20:23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.” No Protestant church that I know of practice this.
4. Mark's version said you must believe AND be baptized to be saved, safe to say, not many churches follow the latter. Furthermore, no church would tell their Gentile believers to pick up serpents as a sign now.
5. Luke's version say you must start from Jerusalem, obviously from what Paul said in Romans 9-11, that avenue is now closed since the vast majority of the Jews rejected the gospel.

What do the rest of you think?

What you have posted I have read many times and it is in the Book, not to be overlooked. All blessings now and always in Jesus,.

 

[Deuteronomy]

Some arguments why

1. The term "Great Commission" was never in the Bible, and Bible translators only added that in the heading.
2. Matthew's version, the most popular one, had Jesus instructing them to teach others to follow "everything" he has taught them, which if you read the entire Gospel of Matthew, had instructions which are clearly incompatible with Paul's Gospel. "Sell all you have'. 'do not go into the Gentiles' 'I was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel', 'Follow what the Pharisees instruct you as they sat on Moses's seat' etc.
3. John's version had an instruction that only the Roman Catholic church practiced, 20:23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.” No Protestant church that I know of practice this.
4. Mark's version said you must believe AND be baptized to be saved, safe to say, not many churches follow the latter. Furthermore, no church would tell their Gentile believers to pick up serpents as a sign now.
5. Luke's version say you must start from Jerusalem, obviously from what Paul said in Romans 9-11, that avenue is now closed since the vast majority of the Jews rejected the gospel.

What do the rest of you think?

1. The word Trinity isn't in the Bible either, and yet, it serves several very important purposes, just like the term "Great Commission" does.

2. Jesus told us He was sent to the lost sheep of Israel alone, yet He still chose to enter the Nations and minister to the Gentile "dogs" who were living there more than once. He also told us that He had "other sheep" (the Gentiles), "which are not of this fold" (the Jews), and that He would bring both together as "one flock with one Shepherd" .. John 10:16.

On the other hand, Paul, who called himself the Apostle to the Gentiles, began his ministry by teaching the Jews alone, and he continued to minister to/teach them as he went from town to town on his various missionary journeys (even after he told the Jews he was turning to the Gentiles in Acts 13). This is how Paul's commission was described by the Lord to Ananias:

Acts 9​

15 The Lord said to him [Ananias], “Go, for he [Paul] is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel;​

16 for I will show him how much he must suffer for My name’s sake.”​

Question, how are Matthew's/Lukes' instructions to "sell your possessions and give to charity" incompatible with Paul instructions about giving? If he told us to horde our $$ rather than giving it as a general principle, I'm afraid I missed it

Gotta go right now.

~Deut
p.s. - if you believe Matthew's Gospel is incompatible with Paul's Epistles, then you must believe that the Bible is the work of men, rather than the inspired/breathed words of God Himself, yes? Thanks again!
.

 

[bobinfaith]

Some arguments why

1. The term "Great Commission" was never in the Bible, and Bible translators only added that in the heading.
2. What do the rest of you think?

What are you talking about. CAn you explain what you are trying to argue...???
Am sure that if people dont know that Jesus Christ the son of God rose from the dead to save us from our sins and give us eternal life, we ought to tell them this good news. We cant make anyone believe, but they need to know.
How else does anyone know about Jesus? Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

1. The word Trinity isn't in the Bible either, and yet, it serves several very important purposes, just like the term "Great Commission" does.
.

Hello Guojing;

Thank you for asking. Yes, the Great Commission is used in the header which was Jesus' instruction as He commissioned the disciples.

Regarding Matthew's, Mark's, Luke's and John's versions, Matthew was with Jesus during His mission and later was anointed to reach out to the Jews. Mark was written to the Romans, Luke wrote from Rome and was appointed to reach out to the Greeks and John who was also with Jesus wrote to the Church.

Guojing, you mentioned "different versions" and "incompatible," Though the historical and synoptics between Matthew, Mark and Luke were approximately the same years, A.D. 55, 60-65, they're not going to emulate exactly the same writings. The unique material in Matthew was 42% of Jesus mission, Mark's unique material was 7%, Luke's unique material was 59%, but they had a common view.

John's unique material was 92% and was written much later in approximately A.D. 85-90.

What do I think? Brother Deuteronomy makes a good point about the Trinity. We shouldn't limit words in the Bible literally but study the importance of context when we study God's Word.

Guojing, I'm not directing this only at you. We're all disciples and still learning. This is why I thanked you for asking your questions and sharing your views.

God bless you, Guojing, and your family.

 

[Guojing]

Hello Guojing;

Guojing, I'm not directing this only at you. We're all disciples and still learning. This is why I thanked you for asking your questions and sharing your views.

God bless you, Guojing, and your family.

Thanks for the well wishes. I asked these questions because I find that quite a number of churches seem to be "overly obsessed with the GC". It seems to them that if you don't "make disciples", you are not a true follower of Jesus. They basically guilt trip all of us into the GC, without really much serious questioning.

When I question further, especially about "which GC to follow", they only think of the Matthew one, and did not consider how certain other versions have instructions that they would clearly reject.

My view of the GC is that its only meant for the 11 to preach to the Jews. For our Gentile church, we are more under the ministry of reconciliation that the Apostle Paul instructs us in 2 Corinthians 5:11-21.

 

[Guojing]

What are you talking about. CAn you explain what you are trying to argue...???

Am sure that if people dont know that Jesus Christ the son of God rose from the dead to save us from our sins and give us eternal life, we ought to tell them this good news. We cant make anyone believe, but they need to know.

How else does anyone know about Jesus? Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

I agree with you. My view of the GC is that its only meant for the 11 to preach to the Jews. For our Gentile church, we are more under the ministry of reconciliation that the Apostle Paul instructs us in 2 Corinthians 5:11-21.

 

[Guojing]

1. The word Trinity isn't in the Bible either, and yet, it serves several very important purposes, just like the term "Great Commission" does.

~Deut
p.s. - if you believe Matthew's Gospel is incompatible with Paul's Epistles, then you must believe that the Bible is the work of men, rather than the inspired/breathed words of God Himself, yes? Thanks again!
.

Good point about the Trinity. My purpose is to address the obsession some churches have over the GC, it is as if the only reason why anyone becomes a Christian, or stay a Christian, is to win others to Christ/make disciples.

Matthew gospel is written to the Jews specifically. The Gentile church can of course learn from those words. For example, it is just like the book of Genesis, God commanded Noah to build an ark, but no Christian now would say that those set of instructions carry over to us now. We can learn from the faith Noah had, to build that ark while everyone else saw no rain, and probably laughed at him.

As for the specific GC instructions, why are we not willing to put the GC under the same category? Why do so many seem to elevate the GC to apply to all of us now?

 

[bobinfaith]

Thanks for the well wishes. I asked these questions because I find that quite a number of churches seem to be "overly obsessed with the GC". It seems to them that if you don't "make disciples", you are not a true follower of Jesus. They basically guilt trip all of us into the GC, without really much serious questioning.

When I question further, especially about "which GC to follow", they only think of the Matthew one, and did not consider how certain other versions have instructions that they would clearly reject.

My view of the GC is that its only meant for the 11 to preach to the Jews. For our Gentile church, we are more under the ministry of reconciliation that the Apostle Paul instructs us in 2 Corinthians 5:11-21.

Hello Guojing;

In 2 Corinthians 5:11-21 I agree with you that Paul is turning the false teachings to the Corinthians back to the Truth of reconciliation with God, of allowing Him to bring the believers back to Himself. Hence, these are the believers who originally came to Christ - made disciples and saved, thus stemming from the Great Commission.

As you mentioned, "being more in the ministry of reconciliation" is when we actually make disciples, allowing Jesus to save. We surrender our sins for our relationship with our Savior. This is indeed, repentance from our sins, first, then reconciliation with Christ.

I find it interesting that you consider the Great Commission "overly obsessed." Contrary, I find many of us believers are "under obsessed." We have too many churches today who should be witnessing more in these times, especially in our backyards, there are too many unreached on all four corners of the Earth.

If one studies up and down in the Old Testament the message from God to His people was to repent and be reconciled to Him. That was the Commission given to the major and minor Prophets.

In the New Testament Jesus is commanding us to make disciples, to repent of our sins and be reconciled to Him. This was the Commission of the disciples but the mission is worldwide today, thus our missionaries, and continues today for all believers empowered by the Holy Spirit.

Guojing, I don't question your discipleship but feel we may not be in agreement, so lets continue this discussion. I'm interested in understanding your discernment of the Great Commission and why it was only instructed to the 11 disciples.

God bless you and your family.

 

[JaumeJ]

Some arguments why

1. The term "Great Commission" was never in the Bible, and Bible translators only added that in the heading.
2. Matthew's version, the most popular one, had Jesus instructing them to teach others to follow "everything" he has taught them, which if you read the entire Gospel of Matthew, had instructions which are clearly incompatible with Paul's Gospel. "Sell all you have'. 'do not go into the Gentiles' 'I was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel', 'Follow what the Pharisees instruct you as they sat on Moses's seat' etc.
3. John's version had an instruction that only the Roman Catholic church practiced, 20:23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.” No Protestant church that I know of practice this.
4. Mark's version said you must believe AND be baptized to be saved, safe to say, not many churches follow the latter. Furthermore, no church would tell their Gentile believers to pick up serpents as a sign now.
5. Luke's version say you must start from Jesponrusalem, obviously from what Paul said in Romans 9-11, that avenue is now closed since the vast majority of the Jews rejected the gospel.

What do the rest of you think?

There are so many "works" given to God' childre, many of which are so sbtle others cannot perceive them. Not all are evangelists, not all are healers, not all pray continuously, not all walk as examples of love in Jesus, and so n...………….I hate some of the doctrines made up by men for some mislead and make the weak despair.

Brethren, do not go ony be appearances but use right understanding...or do not judge by appearances but with right judgment. All blessings in Jesus Christ.

 

[Lanolin]

Interesting question not sure can give you an answer but there are some churches that are evangelistic and outward focused and some that are more interested in building up the ones already raised in church. I think that maybe the difference between jewish believers who became the apostles and then Pauls ministry to the gentiles is that Paul just needed to preach Christ, to anyone willing to accept it wheras for jewish believers they had to reach all the lost sheep of israel.

They had to go through all the cities of israel to reach them and gather them in as they had been scattered. i dont quite know if that task was completed to its fullest extent because obviously today we have jewish people who still dont acknwkedge Jesus as their Lord and saviour. Obviously Jesus, being born jewish, was reaching out to his own people, but they didnt receive him. Can you imagine. Its like the hardest people to reach are your own family. But, as we see, thats good news for gentiles as that means we have time to come into the kingdom as well.

 

[JaumeJ]

Interesting question not sure can give you an answer but there are some churches that are evangelistic and outward focused and some that are more interested in building up the ones already raised in church. I think that maybe the difference between jewish believers who became the apostles and then Pauls ministry to the gentiles is that Paul just needed to preach Christ, to anyone willing to accept it wheras for jewish believers they had to reach all the lost sheep of israel.

They had to go through all the cities of israel to reach them and gather them in as they had been scattered. i dont quite know if that task was completed to its fullest extent because obviously today we have jewish people who still dont acknwkedge Jesus as their Lord and saviour. Obviously Jesus, being born jewish, was reaching out to his own people, but they didnt receive him. Can you imagine. Its like the hardest people to reach are your own family. But, as we see, thats good news for gentiles as that means we have time to come into the kingdom as well.

Something to consider is the fact that the lost sheep of Israel since Christ are all who are become fellow heirs with Israel, along with Israel, that is the Israel of God……….

 

[Nehemiah6]

Thanks for the well wishes. I asked these questions because I find that quite a number of churches seem to be "overly obsessed with the GC".

Have you tried to find out why? In fact, every genuinely Christian church should be *overly obsessed* with the Great Commission. And if you are a Christian, so should you.

 

[Hevosmies]

It is relevant yes. It says it is applicable until the end of the world.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Very briefly (as I don't have much time at the moment), Matthew 10 and Matthew 22:2-14 each have two sections (one section referring to the time of Jesus' earthly ministry, the other section far future [during the future tribulation period (following the Rapture of "the Church which is His body")])

… Matthew 10's couple of verses (for example):


22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.


… I believe refers ^ to the far future time frame. (The "ye," here, being a "proleptic 'ye'," where it refers to "all those in the future, of the same category"--meaning, a believing remnant of Jews/Israel, in that future tribulation period. These are who will be delivering the Matt24:14[26:13] message DURING the trib years [Revelation 19:9's "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" being the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom, where "GUESTS [PLURAL]" will have been "BLESSED" to have been "INVITED [called unto]," as well [this referring to the Gentiles/nations, which we see in Rev7:9,14 and in Matt25:31-34 [with v.40 referring to the believing remnant of Jews/Israel of that future time period, who are not the ones BEING judged/separated in that particular passage/context]).

Same in the Matt22:8-14 passage. Where verse 7 and then that which is stated in verse 8 show a SEQUENCE... V.7 referring to the 70ad events, and v.8's "THEN SAITH HE to his servants" speaks of the LATER [AFTER 70ad] words given, in "[The] Revelation" [95ad], "[The] Revelation of Jesus Christ, WHICH GOD GAVE UNTO HIM [Jesus], TO SHEW UNTO His servants [see 7:3 (the 144,000, for example)] things which must come to pass [see 4:1's FUTURE aspects of the book] IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]…" (not things transpiring over the course of the past some 2000 years), parallel with the other "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" passages of Lk18:8[chpt-17-end] and Rom16:20 (re: FUTURE things, not present things).

 

[John146]

Some arguments why

1. The term "Great Commission" was never in the Bible, and Bible translators only added that in the heading.
2. Matthew's version, the most popular one, had Jesus instructing them to teach others to follow "everything" he has taught them, which if you read the entire Gospel of Matthew, had instructions which are clearly incompatible with Paul's Gospel. "Sell all you have'. 'do not go into the Gentiles' 'I was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel', 'Follow what the Pharisees instruct you as they sat on Moses's seat' etc.
3. John's version had an instruction that only the Roman Catholic church practiced, 20:23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.” No Protestant church that I know of practice this.
4. Mark's version said you must believe AND be baptized to be saved, safe to say, not many churches follow the latter. Furthermore, no church would tell their Gentile believers to pick up serpents as a sign now.
5. Luke's version say you must start from Jerusalem, obviously from what Paul said in Romans 9-11, that avenue is now closed since the vast majority of the Jews rejected the gospel.

What do the rest of you think?

I personally like Paul's commission that was revealed to him in Acts 26.

16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

 

[kaylagrl]

Some arguments why

1. The term "Great Commission" was never in the Bible, and Bible translators only added that in the heading.
2. Matthew's version, the most popular one, had Jesus instructing them to teach others to follow "everything" he has taught them, which if you read the entire Gospel of Matthew, had instructions which are clearly incompatible with Paul's Gospel. "Sell all you have'. 'do not go into the Gentiles' 'I was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel', 'Follow what the Pharisees instruct you as they sat on Moses's seat' etc.
3. John's version had an instruction that only the Roman Catholic church practiced, 20:23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.” No Protestant church that I know of practice this.
4. Mark's version said you must believe AND be baptized to be saved, safe to say, not many churches follow the latter. Furthermore, no church would tell their Gentile believers to pick up serpents as a sign now.
5. Luke's version say you must start from Jerusalem, obviously from what Paul said in Romans 9-11, that avenue is now closed since the vast majority of the Jews rejected the gospel.

What do the rest of you think?

As someone who was in evangelism and have many friends in evangelism and missions I'm wondering how the message is spread to the world if people feel no need to share the message. We are told that we have the light and the knowledge and we are to give account for our faith. That is to every Christian. I've never heard such a thing as not sharing the Gospel with others. How will they know if we don't go? Who will tell them?

 

[JaumeJ]

To whom is thesuthorship of the Book of Acts attribute?

As someone who was in evangelism and have many friends in evangelism and missions I'm wondering how the message is spread to the world if people feel no need to share the message. We are told that we have the light and the knowledge and we are to give account for our faith. That is to every Christian. I've never heard such a thing as not sharing the Gospel with others. How will they know if we don't go? Who will tell them?

We are all to follow the Example of our Savior, Jesus.

Not all are Evangelists. Jesus did not go out into the world, rather He gave the Gosple to His own Tribe, His own peoplee.

Yes, we are to win others by our very being, but not all are evangelists, and to expect this of ALL is a ridiculous notion while each peron is given his speicial abilities to serve God.

Do not teach others they muist be evangelist if God has not told them to be so.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Here is what I posted on January 5th, note especially the last sentence, which I have bolded for this post:

[quoting that post]


At some point during Jesus' earthly ministry (first advent), "the kingdom of the heavens is at hand" ceased being said/proclaimed.

I believe "this gospel of the kingdom" (Matt24:14/26:13) is what will be being preached in all the world DURING the trib years (following the Rapture of "the Church which is His body") and that it necessarily involves the idea [surrounding] its [again] being immediately "at hand" (very soon to arrive and commence!), which is not what we are presently saying (recall, it involves "the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom" and involves Israel [and their participation] rather than their "blindness... UNTIL" [present] status). And that involves "when ye [speaking of the proleptic 'ye'] shall see all these things know that IT IS NEAR, even at the doors" ("IT" being the commencement of the earthly MK).

This is parallel to what I've stated regarding the SEQUENCE issues of Matt22:7-8 [verse 7 involving the 70ad events; verse 8 stating "THEN SAITH HE to his servants" paralleling the later Rev1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, WHICH GOD GAVE UNTO HIM [Jesus], to SHEW UNTO His servants [Rev7:3 the 144,000 (for example)] things which must come to pass [4:1, the FUTURE aspects of the book] IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" not things transpiring over the past some 2000 years [parallel with the other "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" passages of Lk18:8 [chpt 17-end] /and Rom16:20, regarding "future things" [to us] not present things).

"The wedding FEAST/SUPPER" [also in Rev19:9] is the promised and prophesied earthly MK, and the "INVITATION" to THAT is given out DURING the trib years [FOLLOWING our Rapture; "the Church which is His body" will not be present on the earth during that time frame] (and is distinct from "the MARRIAGE" itself involving "the Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]" [Rev19:7; 2Cor11:2 also] ). "BLESSED are those [plural 'guests'] having been called/invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb" (again, this is the call [invitation] TO/FOR/ABOUT "the promised and prophesied EARTHLY MK commencing upon His "return" [see Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." THEN the meal!]) Presently, WE are asking ppl to be involved with "the MARRIAGE" itself.


[end quoting; underlining lost in the transfer ]

https://christianchat.com/threads/are-there-two-gospels-or-one.182029/post-3815755


____________

It's not that no message is presently being sent forth (by means of us and our task), its "what" that message consists of, and pertains to.