The disciples preached the gospel of the kingdom, yet had no clue of the cross. What was this message?
Are there two gospels or ONE?
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The disciples preached the gospel of the kingdom, yet had no clue of the cross. What was this message?
Yes, because it was still hidden until after the Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.
After the Resurrection it became clear what the Gospel was and how to enter the Kingdom.
Well, to some people. I suppose it is still hidden to those who have not come to Christ.
2 Corinthians 3:14-16
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
Are you saying the disciples went around preaching a message they had no clue about? It is obvious they understood the gospel of the kingdom because it was only directed to the Jews. However, the gospel of grace is for everyone.
First, lets look at Luke 9:6.
6 And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where.
This passage clearly states that the 12 were "preaching the gospel". But what gospel did they preach? Was it the same as what Paul said in 1 Cor? It was later on in Luke 18:33-34 that we found out
33 and after they have scourged Him, they will kill Him; and the third day He will rise again.” 34 But the disciples understood none of these things, and the meaning of this statement was hidden from them, and they did not comprehend the things that were said.
So the simple point is, "how could the Disciples be teaching Paul’s gospel of grace– the death, burial and resurrection (I Corinthians 15:1-4) if they didn’t know about the death, burial and resurrection?"
The 12 were teaching the Gospel of the Kingdom. The 12 were not wrong. They were doing what they had been told to do. They didn’t have to understand the divine exchange, all they need to do was to acknowledge that Jesus is the Messiah.
You just painted yourself in a corner.
If it was written BY the Holy Spirit then "to" and "for" start getting into a slight of hand game the Holy Spirit did not orchestrate.
Your method is a HUGE red flag
As Paul taught to the body of Christ, he teaches us as well. All things directed to the body of Christ through Paul’s teachings is doctrine for the body of Christ. Paul’s 13 epistles are TO the body of Christ.
Yup
And according to PAUL the OT is for us(body of Christ) to learn from too(context speaks of what israelites went through and it being an example for us today of nor murmuring etc):
1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
Paul also tells Timothy about ALL SCRIPTURE (which at that time was, the OT), Tanakh:
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Doctrine my friend. Commands from the Lord we are to take literal and follow. Sacrifice an animal lately? Built an ark lately? Gone to Nineveh lately? Why not? Because you understand those directions are for others and not TO us to literally follow, but spiritual application.
Going to Nineveh was never a commandment to many, nor was building an ark.
Lets do some bible basics here:
If God tells Joe to move to Mongolia. That is NOT a commandment to the church, or to Israel or to ANYONE but that one person.
If God speaks to His covenant people, Thou shalt not steal, that is applicable to everyone in the covenant.
This should be clear.
Paul’s commands given him by the Lord, however, we are to literally follow to live for the Lord.
Correct! Our direction as the body of Christ is found in Paul’s 13 epistles. Other parts of the word is for our understanding as examples how the Lord worked in the past and what He is going to do in the future.
All error,or most i should say,contains some truth.
Error by emphasis is emphacising beyond original meaning.
Their deal contains SOME truth.
That becomes their licence to do what they do. ....( they proceed from there to create "understanding")
For ecample,the grand canyon leap that the incarnate Jesus was part of the OT.
And that the gospel is something other than Jesus himself.
( paul was saved outside of his own gospel message).
You’re wrong about Paul. The gospel is about believing the resurrection of Jesus for sin. Jesus revealed Himself to Paul on the road to Damascus. Paul saw the resurrected Savior and believed.
You're right! There is one Gospel (good message) for all: The Messiah has arrived and has begun His ministry through which both Jews and Gentiles will be saved.
1. The Jews will hear from His lips an advanced version of the Law, will attempt to follow it, will see the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecies, will testify that He is the Messiah, and will witness His crucifixion.
2. The Gentiles, in general, will not have to observe the Law for any period of time -- they will be under grace and faith right from the start.
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John the Baptist said: "I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire."
Did Jesus baptize his disciples during His earthly ministry? No, He baptized them after His crucifixion. So, this is part II of the Gospel.
In the same way the Jews were freed from the Law only after Christ's resurrection.
Again: Part I of the Gospel - Salvation by the Law; Part II - Salvation by grace and faith.
What you've said here ^ is to miss the point, I think.
I'll post again a portion of my post #135 [and this will also afford me the opportunity of "editing to correct" the verse I had inadvertently misquoted at the time
]… I'm thinking of the verse Daniel 12:12 :[quoting my post, a point made to you earlier]
"We ("the Church which is His body") return "WITH Him" (FOR the earthly MK time period [or at least its inauguration]). The "guests [plural]" and the "10 virgins [even the 5; plural]" are still on the earth when He "RETURNS" there (following "the MARRIAGE" itself, pertaining solely to "the Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]" Rev19:7.... Rev19:9's PLURALS are distinct [and correlate with all the "BLESSED" passages from the gospels (I'd listed) and even Daniel 12:12's "BLESSED is he that waiteth and cometh to the 1335 days"... because that's the point in time when the promised and prophesied earthly MK will commence. He (this person/persons) is not lifting off the earth, in this passage
, because they are not slated for "Rapture"!])"[end quoting that post]
When Paul speaks of the Rapture, he is speaking solely of "the Church which is His body" ["the dead IN CHRIST" and the "we which are alive and remain unto"]... (Eph1:20-23 'when')… not to all other saints of all OTHER time periods. Daniel was not promised "rapture"... nor were the trib saints, who, as shown above, might come even as far as the "1335 days" without dying, and they will enter the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom (in mortal bodies capable of bearing children/reproducing...). They are not lifting off the earth.
If one were to "apply" this verse (in a primary sense) to US ("the Church which is His body"), then someone like you who believes in the pre-trib Rapture [as I do] will be trying to apply this verse in a way that it does not state, for example, either thinking that this is A PART OF [any member of] "the Church which is His body" that didn't get raptured pre-trib (so "partial rapture theory"), or that the entire passage is referring to a time before the pre-trib rapture (thus disregarding contextual clues regarding the chpt's timing/setting), and/or reasoning to oneself that it must be referring to "UP IN Heaven" (despite its correlation to Daniel 7:27[25]), or reasoning that there must be 2 or 3 or more "Raptures" (applying to saints throughout all times), despite the fact that this passage isn't mentioning "rapture" at all.
The verse that says "were written for our learning, upon whom the ends [plural] of the ages [plural] have come" means that there is much we [all (even saints future to our Rapture)] can learn from them, it does not mean, however, that all scripture applies to us in a primary sense (as though the above verse is referring specifically TO, FOR, and ABOUT "the Church which is His body," when it is not).
You mean you never heard of His "resurrection"? (that's what I'm saying here. That's He's ALIVE [again, after dying]).
When Scripture speaks of "THE faith," it is referring to "that body of truth as found in the NT [after His death/resurrection]" which necessarily INCLUDES "His resurrection" (and then faith in Christ and His finished work, alone, for salvation).