Finally... thank you.
Now... please don't ever post again the statement that there are "no sign gifts".
Praying in Tongues
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Now... please don't ever post again the statement that there are "no sign gifts".
You just can’t let it go, can you.
There are plenty of signs that are a blessings. Rainbows, for one. The virgin shall be with child, for another.
Let it go, Garee. Your position is simply wrong.
Interjecting medical terms and or opinions to explain the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit through HIS gifts found in 1cor 12 to 14 chapters; is not going to be contextual. The “linguistic sense” is not a biblical one. That is a humanistic approach to Biblical interpretation. Which is extreme error for a Christian to use when interpreting the word of God. " free vocalization" is too a term coined by those who have progressed from outright calling it of the devil, because after studying the gift have found it to have benefit and not fake. So now they have created “free vocalization” because they cannot answer the context of the following:
The humanistic doctrine of Biblical explanation:
The terms are very much unbiblical yet surprisingly not many have called them on it.
Yet they try to hide with Greek strong concordance words like “glossolalia” yet this term is nothing unless you place it in the context where it is used.
charisma + pneumatikos come from Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit gives them. As 1cor 12:3-4 states. You cannot take what is from the Holy Spirit as a gift, which is recorded in 1cor chapter 12, and use humanistic terms to explain the Supernatural. That is error.
The gifts as stated in 1cor 12 from verses 4 to 7 we see that giving only one operation to the “Gifts of the Holy Spirit like tongues and calling it “ glossolalia from one Greek word in the languages, is not proper Biblical interpretation. WHY? Because you had to remove what was said in 1cor 12: 4-7 in context to what the gifts do and they have more than one application.
Read:
1cor 12:4-7 you will see: diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
As you read on in 1cor 12 everything that is given is by the Holy Spirit verse 8-11 says :
For to one is given by the Spirit(S) the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
Glōssa is the word for tongues here, which the Holy Spirit helps with an interpretation. Why not
a translation? Because it is speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit This is not something human are able to understand intellectually they are spiritual “charismata and pneumatikos not carnal. So one cannot explain the Gifts of the Holy Spirit using humanistic terms.
They do not seek the authorial intent, they do not apply proper context, and they do not use the word of God to explain the word of God. Humanistic biblical interpretation creates terms to explain away the work of God.
“Free vocalization”, modern tongues, linguistic studies, all come from Secular humanistic approach to biblical understanding
- Gifts of The Holy Spirit
- Why is only “free vocalization” the only explanation for the gift of tongues? yet they have none for the other gifts.
- If the gifts have stopped, the topic is over, why waste time on what is not real.
The humanistic doctrine of Biblical explanation:
The terms are very much unbiblical yet surprisingly not many have called them on it.
Yet they try to hide with Greek strong concordance words like “glossolalia” yet this term is nothing unless you place it in the context where it is used.
charisma + pneumatikos come from Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit gives them. As 1cor 12:3-4 states. You cannot take what is from the Holy Spirit as a gift, which is recorded in 1cor chapter 12, and use humanistic terms to explain the Supernatural. That is error.
The gifts as stated in 1cor 12 from verses 4 to 7 we see that giving only one operation to the “Gifts of the Holy Spirit like tongues and calling it “ glossolalia from one Greek word in the languages, is not proper Biblical interpretation. WHY? Because you had to remove what was said in 1cor 12: 4-7 in context to what the gifts do and they have more than one application.
Read:
1cor 12:4-7 you will see: diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
As you read on in 1cor 12 everything that is given is by the Holy Spirit verse 8-11 says :
For to one is given by the Spirit(S) the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
Glōssa is the word for tongues here, which the Holy Spirit helps with an interpretation. Why not
a translation? Because it is speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit This is not something human are able to understand intellectually they are spiritual “charismata and pneumatikos not carnal. So one cannot explain the Gifts of the Holy Spirit using humanistic terms.
They do not seek the authorial intent, they do not apply proper context, and they do not use the word of God to explain the word of God. Humanistic biblical interpretation creates terms to explain away the work of God.
“Free vocalization”, modern tongues, linguistic studies, all come from Secular humanistic approach to biblical understanding
"unbelief" does not stop God from causing us be born again, the Holy Spirit from quickening the dead spirit in us, the sign gifts were assigned to the apostles, they had no idea of asking for them or even what to ask for!
Jesus healed an unbeliever, yet sent away believers who asked for healing
The Godhead all speak all languages........a prayer language is not biblical as it would have to be something given to everyone as all Christians pray.....sometimes with hearts so broken we groan our need for grace.
The very fact that these sign gifts are only manifested in charismatic circles shows something is not right.
Charismatic sign gifts have also been manifested in cults, like the mormonism, catholocism and odd sects like the Shakers and others
A movement that began as a "renewing" in the 1800's, one has to ask, where were they before?
Where in Scripture does it say all Christians "have to be" given anything? In contrast, it states clearly in 1 Corinthians 12 that any particular gift is not given to everyone. Your reasoning is flawed.
the problem with your premise and presupposing is the gifts of the Holy Spirit are only in “charismatic circles”.
The Book of Acts which is the word of God and foundational. TWO you lack of church history of early “Church” where the Gifts were documented by :
Lutheran
Anglican
Methodist
And many others. The idea that Christian sought cults or pagan practices while calling on the name of the Lord is foolishness. even the 1906 Movement known as Azusa Street the resources used to speak about the gifts of the Holy Spirit and what is known as the Empowering of the Holy Spirit were all from Mark 16, Acts 1 & 2 chapters and 1cor 12-14. Never was any cult used or pagan . That was interjected into the experience by those who were ignorant and unlearned. The Holy Spirit was empowering and the fellowship was growing so false narratives were created to scare people from going to these fellowships. Great mission out , preaching of the gospel, and millions saved. Many Pentecostal groups today are highly respected and visited by other evangelicals and fundamentalist Christians today. The assemblies of god, four square and others. Member ship and power evangelism and outreach like Teen challenge 70 % success rate all glory to God. Member over 60 million.
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
and you say this with a straight face?
with the huge animated red arrows I included in the third posting, even a person using Braille could have seen it
you are not credible
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
before reading on, I have seen this response before. he does not agree
wait for it...wait for it...
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
doesn't your head hurt from all the spin you are putting on what scripture so plainly state?
the Bible clearly identifies praying in the spirit. the following is both instructional to the church at Corinth but also makes plain different ways tongues are used
1Earnestly pursue love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. 2For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men, but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries in the Spirit.3But he who prophesies speaks to men for their edification, encouragement, and comfort. 4The one who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but the one who prophesies edifies the church.
5I wish that all of you could speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.
6Now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how will I benefit you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching? 7Even in the case of lifeless instruments, such as the flute or harp, how will anyone recognize the tune they are playing unless the notes are distinct? 8Again, if the trumpet sounds a muffled call, who will prepare for battle? 9So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air.
10Assuredly, there are many different languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. 11If, then, I do not know the meaning of someone’s language, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me.
12It is the same with you. Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, strive to excel in gifts that build up the church. 13Therefore, the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret. 14For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.
15What then shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind. I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind. 16Otherwise, if you speak a blessing in spirit, how can someone who is uninstructed say “Amen” to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying? 17You may be giving thanks well enough, but the other one is not edified.
18I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19But in the church, I would rather speak five coherent words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue. I Corinthians 14
Its not a salvation issue
I found it (#285) but you again skirted around the issue. I know that prophecy is the word of God and to prophesy is to declare it.
But what does the sign confirm and who is it against.... as a direct answer.. You can look to the foundation of the doctrine found in Isaiah 28.
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
and this is wrong
many come to speak in tongues and they are neither Pentecostal or Charismatic, although I am now familiar with both
I was all alone in my bedroom at the age of 18 when I asked to be filled with the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues and immediately God blessed me with that gift. I did not attend a church where the gifts were taught and certainly not encouraged.
part of your problem there G & T, is that you think you know all about it but the very foundation you build your construct on, is not spiritual. it leaves anything supernatural out, anything you cannot explain with the knowledge you think you have and worse, you choose to mock from time to time as well
you will experience only frustration continuing on in this way when God has made it so plain that He will be worshipped in spirit and in truth...not human reasoning
Yes not human reasoning as an oral tradition of men . That kind of idea makes the word of God prophecy without effect. The unbelieving faithless Jews performed that and saw no evil in doing so
As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken unto thee. But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.Jerimiah 44:16-17
Therefore mocking God who in turned mocked them by bringing prophecy in the langue's or tongues of other nations and no longer in Hebrew alone . Calling them the drunkards of Ephraim.
For with stammering (mocking) lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.Isaiah 28:11-14
The same drunkards that mocked the word of God in exchange for the oral traditions of men, when it came time to fulfill the law in Acts 2, they called Christians drunkards that did hear prophecy the word of God in their own tongues. They would have nothing to do with prophets that did not have Hebrew flesh.
Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: Acts 2:13-17
Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Worship in Spirit and Truth. The Word of God made flesh and dwelling among us.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
How about you quote the person or persons to whom you direct this rather terse admonition. It's over 24 hours since the previous post. Are you sure it was necessary?
TO CLARIFLY WHAT THE SCRIPTURE PICKER LEFT OUT..........
Eph 2:8 By grace are you saved through faith and that not of yourselves (by your own will) IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD
Rom 5:2 We have access by faith into this grace ROMANS 5:2 WE HAVE OBTAINED OUR INTRODUCTION TO FAITH INTO THIS GRACE
Rom 10:9 If you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord & believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 With the heart man believes to righteousness & with the mouth confession is made to salvation.
ROMANS 10: 9-10 ARE NOT STAND ALONE VERSES, THEY ARE IN A CONTEXT OF THE ENTIRE BOOK AS IN ROMANS 10:20 WHERE GOD SAYS:
"I WAS FOUND BY THOSE WHO SOUGHT ME NOT I BECAME MANIFEST TO THOSE WHO DID NOT ASK FOR ME
and......... PAUL MAKES IT PLAIN IN THE PRECEEDING CHAPTER (9) THAT GOD (THE POTTER) HAS MADE POTS FOR GLORY AND POTS FOR DESTRUCTION.
Eph 2:8 By grace are you saved through faith and that not of yourselves (by your own will) IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD
Rom 5:2 We have access by faith into this grace ROMANS 5:2 WE HAVE OBTAINED OUR INTRODUCTION TO FAITH INTO THIS GRACE
Rom 10:9 If you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord & believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 With the heart man believes to righteousness & with the mouth confession is made to salvation.
ROMANS 10: 9-10 ARE NOT STAND ALONE VERSES, THEY ARE IN A CONTEXT OF THE ENTIRE BOOK AS IN ROMANS 10:20 WHERE GOD SAYS:
"I WAS FOUND BY THOSE WHO SOUGHT ME NOT I BECAME MANIFEST TO THOSE WHO DID NOT ASK FOR ME
and......... PAUL MAKES IT PLAIN IN THE PRECEEDING CHAPTER (9) THAT GOD (THE POTTER) HAS MADE POTS FOR GLORY AND POTS FOR DESTRUCTION.
When I protested the use of caps that it was shouting, I was told it was NOT shouting.
And now, I really do not care.