Speaking in tongues
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This fails for two reasons: first, Paul was more advanced in the faith than any of the Corinthians, and yet he spoke in tongues (if he didn't have the love yet, nobody did); and second, it leaves open the idea that new believers will come to experience these gifts in the interim between being saved and being perfected in love throughout the Church age, so there is no valid argument for "these gifts have ceased".
So instead of dealing with the Scripture that deflates your position, you ignore it.
I gave you verses that help illustrate what Paul is endeavoring to convey in the passage you cite. I think you wanted to cite 1 Cor 2:4-5 not 1 Cor 1:4-5.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
second; There's no where the scripture says a believer, new or old must operate in gifts. The thief on the cross did not experience any gift. Paul made it clear what the gifts were for:
Heb 2:1We must pay the most careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away.2For since the message spoken through angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment, 3how shall we escape if we ignore so great a salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him. 4God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.
There's no indication that there will be more appointments of prophets or preachers of the gospel after that who will be followed by signs to confirm the gospel. The gifts were to confirm the gospels which was preached by the 1st century church to all the nations as a witness, after that, the end. In Heb 2 above, Paul would have said 'the gospel will continue to be confirmed through signs' but he chose not to say that.
First; There's no such thing as more advanced in faith- of all men born of women, no one's greatness surpassed that of John the baptist, yet he was the least in the kingdom of God. This is just one of blatant miscommunication from your poor argument.
The perfect love comes with Christ as indicated in 1 John 4; Paul himself was eagerly waiting for Christ whose coming was just around the corner as indicated by Paul himself in his lifetime and not 21st century and counting.
nice try.
you are wrong on this Jesus sent out 70 and they healed and cast out devils. healing is one of the gifts of the Spirit found in 1cor 12.
Elijah was used to heal so was Elishia. the working of Miricles is seen in both old and new Testaments.
I don't have any problem with signs in the 1st century and so i'm not wrong thus far.
Even that passage is against the idea of today's self appointed preachers and tongue speakers and miracle workers.
Luke 10:
1After this, the Lord appointed seventy-twoa others and sent them two by two ahead of Him to every town and place He was about to visit. 2And He told them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into His harvest.
3Go! I am sending you out like lambs among wolves. 4Carry no purse or bag or sandals. Do not greet anyone along the road.
......16Whoever listens to you listens to Me; whoever rejects you rejects Me; and whoever rejects Me rejects the One who sent Me.”
The word of God is God and the gospel is only preached by God and God through the ones He has physically appointed and no one else. The reason Paul says:
Heb 2:1We must pay the most careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away.2For since the message spoken through angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment, 3how shall we escape if we ignore so great a salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him. 4God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.
The gifts were for the 1st century church who were appointed by God to preach the gospel and the gifts were to confirm the word of God. They were not given powers to appoint others after them in an endless cascade and there's a reason for that- all of them were appointed to die for the sake of the gospel. Only through their death was the gospel passed to their listeners.
None of these things was to be carried over to the 2nd century going forward. meaning that from that point, people have appointed themselves against God.
There are no genuine gifts today- i'm not saying there's no healing or prophesy or teaching today, but all these is within those that believe. I need a healing, i'll get it with no specific person laying hands on me, i need understanding, i get it straight away from the scripture with no one telling this or that.
so The Peophets don't count huh? They did miricles by the Same Holy Spirit in the new Testament not the same in the old?
All these to fulfil:
Jer 31:
31Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD,
when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.
32It will not be like the covenant
I made with their fathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt—
a covenant they broke,
though I was a husband to them,f ”
declares the LORD.
33“But this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after those days, declares the LORD.
I will put My law in their minds
and inscribe it on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
and they will be My people.
34No longer will each man teach his neighbor or his brother,
saying, ‘Know the LORD,’
because they will all know Me,
from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD.
For I will forgive their iniquity
and will remember their sins no more.”
This simply means, the gifts were to usher the new covenant in Christ. In this new covenant, we are all priests and non is appointed above the other so that they can exercise gifts as if to spread the gospel. Anyone that appoints himself above others will surely give their own understanding of the scripture and not the powerful gospel which can only be preached by the Lord himself.
Which prophets?
Anything within the 1st century was just fine. The prophets in the first century were physically appointed by God.
No one today is appointed physically by God, they either pass their theology masters or have funny dreams or think they know the bible and some still have funny ticklish feelings. All these are not appointments by God, haven't you heard:
Jer 23:20The anger of the LORD will not diminish until He has fully accomplished the purposes of His heart. In the days to come you will understand it clearly. 21I did not send these prophets, yet they have run with their message; I did not speak to them, yet theyprophesied. 22But if they had stood in My council, they would have proclaimed My words to My people and turned them back from their evil ways and evil deeds.”
Jeremiah 14:14
"The prophets are prophesying lies in My name," the LORD replied. "I did not send them or appoint them or speak to them. They are prophesying to you a false vision, a worthless divination, the futility and delusion of their own minds.
Nope. God works according to His own will/plan; If He chose to advance the salvation gospel through gifts in the 1st century only and not before (say 100BC) or after, that is is His plan and no one can thwart it.
A clear indicator of cessation; in the first century, Paul and others raised people from the dead just like it was promised by Jesus that they will do more than He (Jesus) did, nowadays, not so much, just a few lies here and there. Can we then say that the Holy spirit is restricted in that in the first century many people were being raised from the dead and non today?
this really is not about loving me. no gift from God is more important then HIS Grace. No one is saying the Holy Spirit is not teaching you. the only thing I am saying is you are not Biblical in context to the gift of tongues. And when that point is raised up some here as you have by way of subtlness suggest one is not loving or even saved. Or is practcing pagan rituals. wrong.
It's only about love of the brethren. Tongues are meaningless as Paul illustrates apart from love of the Savior and the brethren.
I am absolutely biblical on tongues with respect to the modern church.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
No you are not. The term "modern tongues” is a humanistic term created by liberal Christianity (mainly atheist) . They too do not even hold the Bible being the word of God unless it is scientifically proven to satisfy their intellectual understanding. The word meaningless is not even used in 1cor 12 to 14 yet you say that as if Paul made that assertion. If you use ONE VERSE in chapter 13 of 1cor you can draw that conclusion but it is error. Pride prevents you from seeing that.