Not By Works
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E
Consider this D,
If it's all Christ, as you say....before, and AFTER salvation...
Then should we be holding HIM responsible for when we sin?
Will be leaving for a while....
If it's all Christ, as you say....before, and AFTER salvation...
Then should we be holding HIM responsible for when we sin?
Will be leaving for a while....
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N
Consider this D,
If it's all Christ, as you say....before, and AFTER salvation...
Then should we be holding HIM responsible for when we sin?
Will be leaving for a while....
If it's all Christ, as you say....before, and AFTER salvation...
Then should we be holding HIM responsible for when we sin?
Will be leaving for a while....
No.... He holds us responsible....
That is why He chastens us who are His already
also why some of us may face many trials and learn many hard lessons
and also why some of our works will be burned up but we will be saved...
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E
Saying we hold jesus responsble for keeping promise is not saying he is responsible for everything, and since salvation is the context, you should still ck to context, which was my point, you example did not fit the argument
Sometimes you are just to focused on proving people wrong you do not think about things when you ask them,
Sometimes you are just to focused on proving people wrong you do not think about things when you ask them,
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you trying to cause trouble here?.....
When you say our "good works" are nothing but filthy rags do you realize we are all still called to do good works once we have come the the knowledge of saving grace?
For example I don't keep the Instruction of Elohim to be saved, I guard the commandments of the Father because of the Salvation provided freely. We who do guard the commandments and trust in Messiah for our salvation don't keep them because we want to make it into the Kingdom we do it to glorify the Father through the finished work of Messiah.
The Sabbaths are meant for mankind as well as the "good works" written in form of laws, ordinance, and precepts.
Don't be a fool like those who rebelled against Elohim in the wilderness. It was because of their rebellion that they did not enter into the Land of promise and instead died.
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Hi NNM,
How does God chasten us?
This happens because we suffer the consequences of disobeying Him.
We chasten ourselves by doing what we want instead of what He wants.
It's a normal outcome of our behavior. For example...smoking causes cancer.
It's not God causing the cancer...This would indeed be a mean God. It's kind of like a father letting his son learn for himself what a wrong life-style will bring.
As you say in your second sentence...
As to our works being burned up...
WHO exactly is 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 speaking about?
Read it again and start at the beginning of the chapter.
It's not speaking about US, but about the Apostles and those who teach.
THEIR works will be burned up...not ours.
How does God chasten us?
This happens because we suffer the consequences of disobeying Him.
We chasten ourselves by doing what we want instead of what He wants.
It's a normal outcome of our behavior. For example...smoking causes cancer.
It's not God causing the cancer...This would indeed be a mean God. It's kind of like a father letting his son learn for himself what a wrong life-style will bring.
As you say in your second sentence...
As to our works being burned up...
WHO exactly is 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 speaking about?
Read it again and start at the beginning of the chapter.
It's not speaking about US, but about the Apostles and those who teach.
THEIR works will be burned up...not ours.
@JohnTalmid is responding to everyone on this thread that wrongly believe works are not part of our salvation...
As Jesus said and which some refuse to believe....
As Jesus said and which some refuse to believe....
AND IF Fran is his or her original name, that lack of TRUSTWORTHYNESS, is SIN.
1 Corinthians 3:16-19 (ESV)
16 Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you?
17 If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him. For God’s temple is holy, and you are that temple.
18 Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise.
19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their craftiness,”
Job 5:12-13 (ESV)
12 He frustrates the devices of the crafty, so that their hands achieve no success.
13 He catches the wise in their own craftiness, and the schemes of the wily are brought to a quick end.
Romans 1:28-32 (NRSV)
28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind and to things that should not be done.
29 They were filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, craftiness, they are gossips,
30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, rebellious toward parents,
31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
32 They know God's decree, that those who practice such things deserve to die—yet they not only do them but even applaud others who practice them.
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NOT IN THE LEAST.
Exodus 31:12-18 (HCSB)
12 The LORD said to Moses:
13 “Tell the Israelites: You must observe My Sabbaths, for it is a sign between ME and you throughout your generations, so that you will know that I am Yahweh who sets you apart {a chosen nation}.
14 Observe the Sabbath, for it is holy to you. Whoever profanes it must be put to death. If anyone does work on it, that person must be cut off from his people.
15 Work may be done for six days, but on the seventh day there must be a Sabbath of complete rest, dedicated to the LORD. Anyone who does work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.
16 The Israelites must observe the Sabbath, celebrating it throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.
17 It is a sign forever between Me and the Israelites, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, but on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.”
18 When He finished speaking with Moses on Mount Sinai, He gave him the two tablets of the testimony, stone tablets inscribed by the finger of God.
JESUS REITERATED IN ONE FORM OR ANOTHER, NINE of the TEN Commandments.
GUESS WHICH ONE THAT HE DELIBERATELY LEFT OUT?
I have a hunch you do not even know why?
Hebrews 7:11-28 (HCSB)
11 If then, perfection came through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there for another priest to appear, said to be in the order of Melchizedek [.both KING and HIGH PRIEST.] and not in the order of Aaron?
12 For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must be a change of law as well.
13 For the One these things are spoken about belonged to a different tribe. No one from it has served at the altar.
14 Now it is evident that our Lord came from Judah, and Moses said nothing about that tribe concerning priests.
15 And this becomes clearer if another priest like Melchizedek appears,
16 who did not become a ⌊priest⌋ based on a legal command concerning physical descent but based on the power of an indestructible life.
17 For it has been testified: You are a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek.
18 So the previous command is annulled because it was weak and unprofitable
19 (for the law perfected nothing), but a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God.
20 None of this ⌊happened⌋ without an oath. For others became priests without an oath,
21 but He became a priest with an oath made by the One who said to Him: The Lord has sworn, and He will not change His mind, You are a priest forever.
22 So Jesus has also become the guarantee of a better covenant.
23 Now many have become ⌊Levitical⌋ priests, since they are prevented by death from remaining in office.
24 But because He remains forever, He holds His priesthood permanently.
25 Therefore, He is always able to save those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to intercede for them.
26 For this is the kind of high priest we need: holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners, and exalted above the heavens.
27 He doesn’t need to offer sacrifices every day, as high priests do—first for their own sins, then for those of the people. He did this once for all when He offered Himself.
28 For the law appoints as high priests men who are weak, but the promise of the oath, which came after the law, ⌊appoints⌋ a Son, who has been perfected forever.
So what did He substitute for our WORSHIP COMMAND?
Hebrews 10:23-25 (ESV)
23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful.
24 And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works,
25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.
NO DAY MENTIONED, WHY?
Romans 14:5 (HCSB)
5 One person considers one day to be above another day. Someone else considers every day to be the same. Each one must be fully convinced in his own mind.
I am one who is CONVINCED by the Holy Spirit, that I should Worship the LORD in my HEART EVERY SINGLE DAY, and YES I am faithful to NOT NEGLECTING TO MEET TOGETHER, and our church Meets on Sunday, and HE IS HONORED BY IT. There is NO REBELLION IN OUR HEARTS.
Oh, just so you KNOW, true Worship is within your HEART, and taking up space on a Pew even if it is Sabbath Pew, does NOT constitute true worship.
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Amen e-grateful, God'sGrace101 is aka Fran who is here illegally and she should be put on report immediately for violating Christianchat.com forum rules.
Stop playing her deceitful game and please bring her deceit and lying gospel to an end. Someone needs to stand up and put her on report.
Stop playing her deceitful game and please bring her deceit and lying gospel to an end. Someone needs to stand up and put her on report.
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N
These are two very different things.... a saved believer who continues to drink... will reap what he sows
a weak liver
wasting the money God provides him
maybe fights or conflict
as well as reproof from brothers and sisters
and whatever other physical trials come from his behavior
..... none of this is God chastening him
though God can use these things for good TO chasten him and show him truths
God chastens us as a Father chastens His children.....
if my son started a fight and got a black eye... that black eye is reaping what he has sown
my scolding to make sure he knows what he did was wrong
and to listen to me and do better.... that is my chastening
Hebrews 12:6-11
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
proverbs 3
11 My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction:
12 For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.
13 Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.
this is done through Him working in us
and us hearing Him.... even if not audible
we know by the Holy spirit we have done wrong
and we
as His children
are grieved
not ashamed of His gospel
not ashamed of His grace
but ashamed of our slanted walk
wether a son/daughter has little fruit
or salt has little flavor
or light has little shine
if it is His
He will worry about this ones salvation
He will judge this ones walk
but He will keep them by HIS power
and will not lose even one of His children
...as He has said
a weak liver
wasting the money God provides him
maybe fights or conflict
as well as reproof from brothers and sisters
and whatever other physical trials come from his behavior
..... none of this is God chastening him
though God can use these things for good TO chasten him and show him truths
God chastens us as a Father chastens His children.....
if my son started a fight and got a black eye... that black eye is reaping what he has sown
my scolding to make sure he knows what he did was wrong
and to listen to me and do better.... that is my chastening
Hebrews 12:6-11
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
proverbs 3
11 My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction:
12 For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.
13 Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.
this is done through Him working in us
and us hearing Him.... even if not audible
we know by the Holy spirit we have done wrong
and we
as His children
are grieved
not ashamed of His gospel
not ashamed of His grace
but ashamed of our slanted walk
wether a son/daughter has little fruit
or salt has little flavor
or light has little shine
if it is His
He will worry about this ones salvation
He will judge this ones walk
but He will keep them by HIS power
and will not lose even one of His children
...as He has said
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