Praying in Tongues
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this is so convoluted that there is no way to even begin to address the usual rote posts you respond with
you have your own interpretation and trust me, it is pretty unique
you have your own interpretation and trust me, it is pretty unique
Its not that hard if you would mix faith in what you do hear. For instance we know the foundation of tongues prophecy spoken in many languages of the world is found in Isiah 28 and the law in respect to it as a sign to confirm something is found in 1 Corinthians 14 :21-22
Once the understanding of what the sign confirms and who it points to is established its then easy to let go of preconceived ideology of those who seek after signs to confirm something . The older ones can die hard. But the question remain will some repent and believe the scriptures?
In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak (prophecy the word of God) unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that "believe", but to them that "believe not": (prophecy the word of God))but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.1 Corinthian 14:21-22
What does the sign confirm and who is it in respect to? Those who believe prophecy or those who are hoping the sign confirm they have the Holy Spirit? Once you find the reason and who the sign points to then the rest of the doctrine falls into place.
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honestly? it is my observation that quite a number have difficulty understanding what you say because of you personal interpretation that is not in agreement with scripture
I understand that you do not see things from that perspective so I will remove myself from further discussion with you as I have done in other threads regarding the subject matter
you wish to extend the meaning of the prophetic beyond what is written and disregard any quotes from scripture regarding tongues
and negate what is written to a tidy little file you have cooked up
I am quite confident that prophecy is the word of God. I have offered many verse that show what I believe.
What the sign according to the law found in 1 Corinthians 14 confirms and who it is in respect to would seem to a good place to start .
This is seeing the bottom line of the tongues issue is someone is looking to confirm something by something we perform.
What the sign according to the law found in 1 Corinthians 14 confirms and who it is in respect to would seem to a good place to start .
This is seeing the bottom line of the tongues issue is someone is looking to confirm something by something we perform.
I am not the one who is suggesting that we go beyond that which is written.
Your personal interpretation is not in agreement with scripture and you are use that to evaluate mine as it would seem ignoring the law.
It would seem it is you that is choking by not giving the answer to what the sign confirms and who it is speaking to? I will offer it again.
In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe1 Cor.14:21-22
What do you believe it confirms?
Your personal interpretation is not in agreement with scripture and you are use that to evaluate mine as it would seem ignoring the law.
It would seem it is you that is choking by not giving the answer to what the sign confirms and who it is speaking to? I will offer it again.
In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe1 Cor.14:21-22
What do you believe it confirms?
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I looked at every instance of "prophesy", "prophecy", and cognates (prophesying, etc.). In slightly more than one-third of cases, there is no specific message (only a record of someone prophesying), and in slightly less than one-third, the prophecy was from a source other than God. Where a specific message from the Lord is recorded (about one-third of cases), most foretell the future.
If someone says "God is love" and then argues that "therefore love is God", you would recognize that isn't necessarily true. In the same way, true prophecy is God's word, but God's word is not all "prophecy". This is the essence of our disagreement. As long as you assert that every communication God conveys is "prophecy", we are talking past each other, and there's no point in continuing.
If someone says "God is love" and then argues that "therefore love is God", you would recognize that isn't necessarily true. In the same way, true prophecy is God's word, but God's word is not all "prophecy". This is the essence of our disagreement. As long as you assert that every communication God conveys is "prophecy", we are talking past each other, and there's no point in continuing.
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13 For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say.
14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.
15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.
16 Otherwise when you are praising God in the Spirit, how can someone else, who is now put in the position of an inquirer, say “Amen” to your thanksgiving, since they do not know what you are saying?
17 You are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified.
18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. I Corinthians 14
Regarding 1 Cor.14:21-22:
you will find tongues and prophecy mentioned together quite a few times in scripture and there is even note of speaking in 'angel tongues or tongues of angels'.
YOU are hung up on the word PROPHECY and DO NOT UNDERSTAND that the word is NOT always mean to foretell the future.
Prophecy also means to FORTHTELL...expound on the Bible or deliver a message that is above the knowledge of the one speaking.
Paul makes mention of unbelievers hearing tongues and being converted...as per Acts or a per interpretation that would convict the unbelieving hearer.
1 Cor 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
the point Paul is making is in reference to the unbeliever in a church hearing tongues being used improperly. never ever does Paul say do not use the gift of tongues; rather his emphasis is on using it properly and within the context of instructions so as to benefit the hearer
once again, I have engaged you in this type of discussion a number of times and you are not in the habit of acknowledging answers which indicate your comprehension of the meaning of prophecy in the context used, is faulty
I do not respect you saying things like It would seem it is you that is choking by not giving the answer to what the sign confirms and who it is speaking to?
rather than respond to what I write, you now change your tact and try to accuse me of not being able to answer you which is utter nonsense, ESPECIALLY in light of the previous exchanges we have had
if you cannot respond to my actual answer rather than twist what I say or ignore it altogether, it shows, quite adequately, that you CANNOT answer, you do not understand and can offer nothing to rebuff other than your constant musings on prophecy
I have answered your question regarding what Paul means but I don't at all believe it will satisfy you, again, because you DO NOT UNDERSTAND how the word prophesy is being used or the fact it has more than one meaning in scripture
I have entertained this type of thing from you in the past, but you know, it's enough. rattle on but not to me unless you actually wish to discuss the above IN CONTEXT without changing or twisting what I wrote
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New Testament gift of prophecy
Prophecy in this “third category” (the New Testament gift of prophecy) is a regulated 1 message or report in human words 2 usually made to the gathered believers 3 based on a spontaneous, personal revelation from the Holy Spirit 4for the purpose of edification, encouragement, consolation, conviction or guidance 5 but not necessarily free from a mixture of human error, and thus needing assessment 6 on the basis of the apostolic (Biblical) teaching 7 and mature spiritual wisdom.
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there is also a difference between prophecy and prophesy
- It is still valid and useful for the church today. This is the clear implication of 1 Corinthians 13:8-12 and Acts 2:17-18.
- It is a Spirit-prompted, Spirit-sustained, utterance that is rooted in a true revelation (1 Corinthians 14:30), but is fallible because the prophet’s perception of the revelation, and thinking about the revelation, and report of the revelation are all fallible. It is thus similar to the gift of teaching which is Spirit-prompted, Spirit sustained, rooted in an infallible revelation (the Bible), and yet is fallible but very useful to the church.
- It does not have an authority that is on a par with Scripture, for Scripture is verbally inspired, not just Spirit-prompted and Spirit-sustained. The very words of the biblical writers are the words of God (1 Corinthians 2:13; 2 Timothy 3:16). This is not true of the words that come from the “gift of prophecy.”
- The New Testament gift of prophecy is a “third category” of prophetic utterance between the categories of 1) verbally inspired, intrinsically authoritative, infallible speech spoken by the likes of Moses, Jesus and the apostles; and 2) the speech of false prophets spoken presumptuously, without inspiration and liable to condemnation (Deuteronomy 18:20). Those two categories (absolutely infallible vs. false) do not exhaust all the biblical teaching on prophecy.
Prophecy in this “third category” (the New Testament gift of prophecy) is a regulated 1 message or report in human words 2 usually made to the gathered believers 3 based on a spontaneous, personal revelation from the Holy Spirit 4for the purpose of edification, encouragement, consolation, conviction or guidance 5 but not necessarily free from a mixture of human error, and thus needing assessment 6 on the basis of the apostolic (Biblical) teaching 7 and mature spiritual wisdom.
- Recognize God’s complete sovereignty in giving gifts freely to whomever he wills (1 Corinthians 12:11; Hebrews 2:4).
- Recognize that not all will become prophets (1 Corinthians 12:29).
- Desire earnestly this gift (1 Corinthians 14:1,5,39). Pray for it (1 Corinthians 14:13).
- Be grateful for the gifts you do have; use them to the full; rejoice that others are different from you; and avoid all jealousy (1 Corinthians 12:14-29).
- Make love your aim in all things; realize that love is the greatest miracle and the surest sign of God’s blessing; grow more and more toward solid, stable biblical maturity (1 Corinthians 14:1,12,26,37; 2:14).
- Muster the courage to speak out what you believe (with more or less confidence) may be given to you from the Lord in gatherings designed for this less-structured expression (1 Corinthians 14:26).
- Have humble expectations that the prophecy will not be taken as a word of Scripture but as a Spirit-prompted human word to be weighed by Scripture, and by mature spiritual wisdom. For a prophecy to be accepted as valid it should find an echo in the hearts of spiritually mature people. It should be confirmed by biblically saturated insight. And it should find a resonance in the hearts and minds of those who have the mind of Christ and are ruled by his peace. (1 Thessalonians 5:19-21; Colossians 1:9; 3:15; Ephesians 5:15-17; Romans 12:1-2; Philippians 1:9-10).
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there is also a difference between prophecy and prophesy
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well yah know, if you are opposed to the gifts, God is not going to go against your will
He does not force people to be saved and He does not force people to believe
and the teaching is in the Bible...do you put human reasoning and so called human negativity above the Bible?
people try to play God and they flop every time
same place as the last time you asked what you thought was killer question
He does not force people to be saved and He does not force people to believe
and the teaching is in the Bible...do you put human reasoning and so called human negativity above the Bible?
people try to play God and they flop every time
same place as the last time you asked what you thought was killer question
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Sorry for the sarcasm.
I don't remember you answering it 1 Corinthians14:21-22?
The whole tongues discussion is all about those few who want as a sign to confirm they have received something from the Holy Spirit and call it a sign gift.
Once the sign according to the law as that which is not subject to change is revealed for what it is, what it confirms as to who it is pointing to the rest of the doctrines falls into place.
There is only one meaning to the "word of God" (prophecy) and the same with "declaring the word of God" (prophesying)
Prophets, declare (prophesy) the word of God (prophecy). They do not declare their own words. That would be called private interpretation. Prophecy is his interpretation or revelation
In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.1 Corinthian14:21-22
well yah know, if you are opposed to the gifts, God is not going to go against your will
He does not force people to be saved and He does not force people to believe
and the teaching is in the Bible...do you put human reasoning and so called human negativity above the Bible?
people try to play God and they flop every time
same place as the last time you asked what you thought was killer question
He does not force people to be saved and He does not force people to believe
and the teaching is in the Bible...do you put human reasoning and so called human negativity above the Bible?
people try to play God and they flop every time
same place as the last time you asked what you thought was killer question