IS MAN TOTALLY DEPRAVED?

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

But Christ made a way for us to come to Him...

But how can they come to Him if they do not know anything of His existence? That’s the trust of Paul’s statement in Romans 10:14-17.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

But Christ made a way for us to come to Him...

14 But how can they call on Him they have not believed in? And how can they believe without hearing about Him? And how can they hear without a preacher? 15 And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: How beautiful are the feet of those who announce the gospel of good things! 16 But all did not obey the gospel. For Isaiah says, Lord, who has believed our message? 17 So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the message about Christ.(Romans 10 HCSB)

People in remote areas who died without hearing about Jesus died lost my friend. Seeing that we are justified by faith(Romans 5:1) and this faith comes through hearing the message about Christ, they died without this faith, which is very necessary in salvation.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

And new members can check the thousands of times this has been argued in other threads. It's all still here. Right?

That's true but I think If common sense Is our goal then at least let's err on the side of common sense.A new member Is not going to know the site that well that they would do all that.I don't want to go back and forth on that Issue,I know anger Is pulling pride up to the surface making truth look undesirable.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Somebody's gotta be preaching the Gospel, right? May as well be me and my other Reformed brothers and sisters on here.

Soli Deo Gloria!

Agreed.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

John 10:16. We are all one fold with one Shepherd.

Yes!

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Why do Calvinists make great telemarketers? Because they love to tell people they have been pre-qualified.

Do not quit your day job my friend.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

What a disaster of a post...

Sorry, you just don't know how to properly exegete and interpret Scripture and the above is merely a diatribe of you dictating how God ought to act to be God according to you, not Scripture.

So if God exercises justice, He's evil? Gotcha. If he doesn't do what you deem fair, He's evil? Okey dokey. So, you have God on trial, interesting. You know that "fair" means "just?" So, you want God to be "fair" or "just" but when He is, you complain and call it evil? Do you know what justice is? You better be learning, real fast, especially after your Romans 9:20 tirade.

There's all that, and then just a minor issue after your above judgment of God; It's your 2 Peter 3:9 mistake. When are you going to learn context? The "repentance" there in the text is concerning his elect, not all men of all time.

From the beginning of the epistle to that verse the "you" are the elect. It flows from the beginning of the epistle to the end. This is why he delays his coming, until the full harvest is brought in of those whom he has chosen, cf. Ephesians 1:4. This is what the passage is about, why God has not sent his son at that time. More elect are to be saved -- Soli Deo Gloria!

Agreed!

 

[preacher4truth]

No,no not your post. You weren't rude at all. I was speaking of the OP,who I have also given a thumbs up several times. But no I didn't mean you.

Yes,OSAS is what I was speaking of. Though I do have questions about Calvinism. Again I have close friends who believe this,more than just one. Wonderful people. I just don't agree on some of the things they believe.

As to what you share that is none of my business. It's a free and open forum. The only point I was making is that this subject always dissolves into a shouting match with people getting angry and hurt. So why poke the bear when we have so many posts on it already?

I appreciate your patience. I'll warn you that it's hard to change the mind of an old Pentecostal. We're a pretty stubborn lot. Yes I do like reading a lot and learning. My parents often discussed politics,doctrine and social issues with us. We were mature for our age. Then I began in ministry when I was 16. Imagine that!! And I travelled in many churches and got perspective on many different issues among denominations. So I get that we don't all believe the same,though sometimes I think we are closer than we think we are.

Do you have any good links to share that I can give a read? I'll do my best to give it an honest look. Blessings.

Thank you. Well, of course I don't change minds, that's God's department. Can't believe He didn't entrust me with all that! LOL!

I would suggest you read one book to start: The Potter's Freedom.

You may think it is arrogant, but I am not trying to be that way: There is not one passage that anti-Calvinists use to go against the Doctrines of Grace that is used in its proper context. If you read the book with an open mind, you will see this. I believe if you read this then you will see where perseverance of the saints is Biblical, then you can look into that teaching. What I am saying is the book gives a solid foundation of soteriology -- great starting point.

God bless you as well Kayla!

 

[Hevosmies]

So are you saying 3.2 billion people are lost and in hell because they didn't have the opportunity to hear the Gospel or read a Bible? God just chose to let them die in their sins??!!

What do you suggest God does with them instead?

How can they be saved without hearing the Gospel?

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Why do Calvinists make great telemarketers? Because they love to tell people they have been pre-qualified.

Not nice.......do I make fun of YOUR religion?
I find your posts very strange.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Bilions lost, billions saved........all made by the Potter's hand

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Not if they believe in Jesus and put their faith in Him.

So everyone must hear about Jesus because faith comes from hearing the word of God. And if you already know Him you must tell others about Him so they can hear too and become totally saved.

God gives the EARS to HEAR, EYES to SEE.......the reprobate is deaf AND blind

 

[GraceAndTruth]

God does not OWE salvation to anyone.
The GIFT is a GIFT, you do NOTHING.
God can do with His creation whatever He pleases
His creation is for HIS glory, His heaven is not for plundering by those who want to push in
The mind of the reprobate is a cesspool of really bad theology.

The challenge for calvinists is to try to help those who are struggling with truth because of past bad teaching, because some may seem to be reprobate dirtbags of theology, (which they certainly are to the faith) yet God may be preparing them for a BATH

I have been where those people are in early days of salvation.......know people who also were there.......some have to unlearn a lot of brainwashing and replace it with truth.

Two truths no Christian would deny:
God IS Sovereign
Man is born spiritually DEAD (not unconscious but DEAD)

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Its almost amusing to watch the posts that argue with God (scripture) and dismiss simple translations made by Strong
Most pastors have a Strong's Concordance in their libraries to consult, yet the the untaught still cling to theory and bumper sticker theology.

 

[FlyingDove]

Can anyone on this tread promoting Tulips, Calvin, Armenians etc.

Provide ONE Holy Spirit inspired scripture written by Calvin?

Provide ONE Holy Spirit inspired scripture written about Calvin?

Provide ONE Holy Spirit inspired scripture written about tulip points?

Provide ONE Holy Spirit inspired scripture written about Armenians?

 

[seed_time_harvest]

All men deep down know there Is a GOD the creation declares It and GOD allows people to have a choice,so then be obedient to faith and say yes.

If we believe with the sense knowledge GOD gave every man then GOD will do the rest.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Can anyone on this tread promoting Tulips, Calvin, Armenians etc.

Provide ONE Holy Spirit inspired scripture written by Calvin?
Provide ONE Holy Spirit inspired scripture written about Calvin?
Calving didn't write scripture, he preached it, but Calvin was one of the "laborers in the field" to bring in a harvest.
Provide ONE Holy Spirit inspired scripture written about tulip points?
A whole bible full........which point do you want first?
Provide ONE Holy Spirit inspired scripture written about Armenians?

Armenians are a people of country in Europe

 

[GraceAndTruth]

KJV Matthew 19:25-26
25. When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
26. But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

KJV John 6:44
44. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

KJV Romans 9:18-23
18. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20. Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21. Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22. What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory

 

[GraceAndTruth]

All men deep down know there Is a GOD the creation declares It and GOD allows people to have a choice,so then be obedient to faith and say yes.

If we believe with the sense knowledge GOD gave every man then GOD will do the rest.

Creation itself tells man there is a Creator
2nd chapter of Romans is about the moralist man

 

[Deade]

What do you suggest God does with them instead?

How can they be saved without hearing the Gospel?

Yes, most Calvinist claim God is sadistic. He condemns billions of people to burn forever without ever giving them a chance for life in the hereafter. Scripture does indeed seem to point that way. Could it be that Satan has the wool pulled over the world's eyes and has hidden God's real plan for mankind?

There are whole groups that never get a chance to serve Christ. Those that died before age of accountability and those that never heard or never believed Christ was from/is God. They try to defend their stance claiming God's sovereignty precludes Him being unjust. Well excuse me: it still seems unjust.

Many that call themselves Christians today serve another Christ that have given us this unworkable plan for mankind. Christ isn't doing that. He isn't competing with Satan for souls. He would be losing if that were the case. He even prophesied that the wide/easy way leads to destruction. Maybe that destruction spoken of is not their final end. Ever think of that?