Not By Works

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Dec 12, 2013
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No wonder you are so messed up on the Endtimes. The 70th Week of Daniel has not even begun yet. BUT IT WILL with the Signing of the Peace Treaty with ISRAEL, by the leader of the Revived Roman Empire.
Whatever.....glad you got it all figured out and set the standard for knowing it all.......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pretty bad when all you have is a mouthy comment instead of asking me why I believe this.....do you think you are the only one who picks a bible up and studies it????????

Go look at my response to your opinion....did I say you were stupid, messed up or any other negative remark? NOPE......
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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My view......the first 1185 days of the 70th week was fulfilled by the earthly ministry if Jesus unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel......all that is left is the 1335 days of Daniel 12.....

My Understanding:



Only the Rapture happens just before the 70th Week Begins.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Whatever.....glad you got it all figured out and set the standard for knowing it all.......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pretty bad when all you have is a mouthy comment instead of asking me why I believe this.....do you think you are the only one who picks a bible up and studies it????????

Go look at my response to your opinion....did I say you were stupid, messed up or any other negative remark? NOPE......

No, it was not Mouthy, I am that Convinced of the 70th Week of Daniel's Prophecy, and I am no longer Searching for an alternative answer.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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Those who obey God and walk with Him do so BECAUSE they are saved and not in order to become saved. If you believe that we maintain our salvation based on the merits of our obedience, then please explain exactly how much obedience it take? Sinless, perfect obedience 100% of the time? 90% of the time? 50% of the time? :unsure:

Where do you draw the line in the sand and say that you were "obedient enough" so now the Lord will be able to save you? Is that salvation through faith in Christ or salvation by works?

Works-salvationists (including Roman Catholics and Mormons) often quote these verses below in order to teach salvation by works. :cautious:

Jesus said, “If anyone desires to come after Me/be My disciple, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me. Only genuine believers are capable of doing this. I've heard those who teach sinless perfection say that anything short of living a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) fall short of picking up their cross daily and following Jesus and won't be saved. It's about the DIRECTION of our walk and NOT the perfection of our walk.

We are saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works. (Ephesians 2:8-10) In regards to the rich young man in Matthew 19/Luke 18, the rich young man confidently and (self righteously) declared that he has kept the commandments from his youth up and qualified for heaven under those terms. Yet Jesus knew the man's wealth had become his idolatrous god, which kept him from believing in and following Jesus. His face fell and he went away sad because he could not part from his great wealth, not even in exchange for eternal life.

After a casual reading of the parable of the sheep and goats in Matthew 25:31-46, one might conclude that these passages of scripture suggest that salvation is the result of good works, yet all scripture proves itself right and non-contradictory when compared with the totality of scripture. This passage has to be taken alongside the whole of scripture. Jesus was not advocating salvation by works. That would be contrary to Romans 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5 etc... One's works are an effect of (and therefore indication of) one's salvation status, rather than being a cause of one's salvation. It's performance based salvation, but salvation based performance.

The good deeds mentioned in Matthew 25:35-36 are merely the fruit that will be manifest in the lives of the redeemed. Those who are placed at Christ's right hand are not there based on the merits of their good deeds, but because Christ imputed His righteousness to them (Romans 4:2-6; Philippians 3:9). When works are mentioned in connection with salvation, the works are always the result of, not the condition of, receiving salvation. The stress is on works as a manifestation of one's faith (or lack thereof), not simply on the faith from which these works follow. So it is understandable that in this context, Matthew would stress the works that are a manifestation of one's "faith by which one receives eternal life."

Notice how practicing righteousness and love for other Christians is an indication of one's salvation status: 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. He who practices righteousness and loves his brother does so BECAUSE he is "born of God" not to become born of God. 1 John 3:14 - We know that we have (past tense) passed from death to life, because we love our brothers (present tense). Loving our brothers is the result of, not the condition of passing from death to life.

Jesus said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments." Those who "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments abide in His love. Those who teach sinless perfection would say that anything short of sinless, perfect obedience 100% of the time to ALL of His commandments would mean that you do not keep His commandments and will not be saved. :rolleyes: Yet those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

In 1 John 2:3, we read - Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

There is a difference between DOING the will of God IN ORDER TO BECOME SAVED - John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

AND doing the will of God AFTER WE HAVE BEEN SAVED THROUGH FAITH - 1 Thessalonians 5:14 - Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. 15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all. 16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.
Wow MMD, you wrote a lot and I can't answer all this...very late here.
Will answer all your posts tomorrow.
I wish we could concentrate on one thing at a time,,,you put a lot out there.
For instance, it would be interesting to just concentrate on John 6:40.
Soon...
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
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"If we are led by the Spirit, we are not under the Law" (Galatians 5:18)

"Christ is the end of the Law." (Romans 10:4)

"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the Law: for by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified. " (Galatians 2:16)

"Knowing this, that the Law is not made for a righteous man.." (1 Timothy 1:9)

"For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the Law, but under Grace." (Romans 6:14)

"Clearly no one who relies on the Law is justified before God, because "the righteous will live by faith. The Law is not based on faith.." (Galatians 3:11-12)

"I do not set aside the Grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the Law, Christ died for nothing!" (Galatians 2:21)

Clear enough?
LOVE is the fulfillment of the law. Romans 13:10

LOVE was poured into our HEARTS. Romans 5:5

God is LOVE. 1 John 4:8-16

The Father and the Son will dwell in a true believers HEART. John 14:23

The WORD was sown into our HEARTS. See Matthew 13:11-43

God will write in our HEARTS and put in our minds His laws. Hebrews 8:10 & 10:16

...Jesus replied: “‘LOVE the Lord your God with all your HEART and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ Matthew 22:37

... This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
1 John 5:2-3

... If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and IF I HAVE A FAITH that can move mountains, but have not love, I AM NOTHING.
1 Corinthians 13:2 and see also Romans 3:3-4

... For IN Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is FAITH EXPRESSING ITSELF THROUGH (WORKING IN) LOVE. Galatians 5:6

What's in your HEART?

...“As for the person who hears my words but DOES NOT KEEP THEM, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who REJECTS ME AND DOES NOT ACCEPT MY WORDS; that very word which I spoke WILL CONDEMN HIM AT THE LAST DAY. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. I KNOW THAT HIS COMMAND LEADS TO ETERNAL LIFE. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.” John 12:47-50 and see also John 14:12-31

Who is leading you to NULLIFY and REJECT GOD'S law which is His very own WORD? (See Mark 7:6-13, Isaiah 5:20-24, Malachi 3:13-18)


 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Nice.....VCO can play the thumbs down game......I am so offended!!!!!

You are so mistaken. I accept that you believe differently. I was surprised that the first time you told me you were of the opposite point of view. Most Baptists believe like me, about the 70 Weeks and the pre-70 weeks the Church Age ends and we are called out to go to the Wedding of the LAMB in Heaven. There was no evil intent in my post, I was just being honest. Sorry you got offended. Almost every Church that have been involved in since I was SAVED in 1977, believes the same.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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Why would the Lord tell Adam not to eat from that tree of knowledge of good and evil?
There are two possible reasons that I know of:

1. God wanted Adam to try himself and be a representative of the human race.
Would he be able to defeat satan and obey God?

2. It's not good for man to know evil. It was far better when he knew only the good. God wanted to protect Adam, but Adam rejected the protection. We see the result....
Hi Grace101, I like both of your possibilities and I'm not sure where I stand as of the moment, at least Christians can say we are "forgiven", for Adams disobedience as a starting point.

Others, (not me), are saying that it was a "set up" all along and the very beginning of the first "blame game."

However the correct answer is: :cry:

Quote: "There are known known's; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns — the ones we don't know we don't know."

Genesis 3:12
And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
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Anaheim, Cali.
@dcontroversal what's the name of that ancient cult that believed that Jesus was born a man and became the Son of God through righteous living and works? I know it mainly died out 1800 years ago but it reminds me of the saved by works crowd.
We are sinners saved by grace, not saints saved by works. I defy anyone to try and prove that wrong!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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You are so mistaken. I accept that you believe differently. I was surprised that the first time you told me you were of the opposite point of view. Most Baptists believe like me, about the 70 Weeks and the pre-70 weeks the Church Age ends and we are called out to go to the Wedding of the LAMB in Heaven. There was no evil intent in my post, I was just being honest. Sorry you got offended. Almost every Church that have been involved in since I was SAVED in 1977, believes the same.
I used to believe the same thing....which was always regurgitated over and over.....after I spent 32 years straight studying the end specifically I no longer believe that view......nor do I believe the imminent return which I also believed without question..........anyway.....time will tell.....!!
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Sorry MMD, I was in a hurry yesterday.
The only comment I'd like to add regarding the above is that, YES, we are saved by faith alone.
Who said anything else?
Those who teach that salvation is either obtained or maintained by works say something else.

@dcontroversal keeps repeating that some here don't understand the difference between justification and sanctification...i wonder who that would be?
Those who teach that justification is a process and that salvation is based on the merits of our performance.

Justification is totally an act of God...the church always knew this. When Luther came on the scene, the church was so corrupt that who knows what inconsistencies it taught. Indulgences for sale was only one of them. Some places required payment for sins to be forgiven. But it was always known that we are saved by faith and not by works of the law.
I've heard numerous works-salvationists say that they agree with Ephesians 2:8-9, yet misinterpret these verses to mean that we are saved through faith + "these works" (good works) and just not "those works" (works of the law). Such people will re-define faith to "include" works in such a way that what they are really saying is that we are saved by faith "infused" with works. Example below in blue from a statement made by a Roman Catholic who insisted that the RCC does not teach that we are saved by works, then afterwards contradicted himself by saying:

We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc..

His argument about faith being "defined as" and INCLUDES these works above after first stating he doesn't teach salvation by works is sugar coated double talk and equates to salvation through faith (his version of faith) + works.

Sanctification requires our cooperation. God is not going to make us holy all by Himself. WE also have to WANT to become holy. He won't force His will on us because, happily, He did give us free will. This is an on-going process. This is why it's important to allow the Holy Spirit to dwell within us and walk with God.

2 Thessalonians 2:13
13 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you as firstfruits to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.

2 Timothy 2:21
21 Those who cleanse themselves from the latter will be instruments for special purposes, made holy, useful to the Master and prepared to do any good work.

Hebrews 10:14
14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
Those who are saved have been "set apart/made holy" in standing before God positionally in Christ. 1 Corinthians 6:11 - Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 1:2 - To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified (past tense) in Christ Jesus..

Yet I also see progressive sanctification in which the reality of that holiness becomes more and more evident in our actions, words, thoughts, attitudes, and motives. 1 Thessalonians 4:3,4 - For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain (present tense) from sexual immorality; that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor. Hebrews 10:14 - For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

So becoming washed, sanctified and justified in Christ is a one time event, yet abstaining from sexual immorality is not a one time event. Here is how I see it. The believer possess a positional, judicial standing of righteousness in Christ and, second, a remaining need for practical, progressive holiness in order to grow and become mature in Christ. Justification is a one time event, yet progressive sanctification is an ongoing process and has no bearing on justification. That is even if we don't reach sinless perfection (entire sanctification) in this lifetime (which we won't) we are still justified by faith in Christ. (Romans 5:1)
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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Must we obey to be saved?

If so what is it that we must do to be saved?

Can our odience save us?

What separates you and me from Bill Gates?
Me and you from Ghandi?

Works or faith.

Yes the above two have done great things.
But are they saved?
OK Bill, in the order asked:

1. To be saved all that is required if faith.
To REMAIN saved, we do have to obey God.
Jesus said that if we love Him we will obey Him.
If we don't obey it means we don't love....
If we don't love God, are we saved? I don't believe so but only God knows for sure.
John 14:15

2. I guess everyone must do something different. I think what we must do is let our light shine on the world so that they could see the love of God in us. Maybe it's being a good mother/father; maybe it's being useful at our job...Paul said to do all t hings as if we're doing them for God...so I would say everything we do we do for God.
Colossians 3:23

3. No. Not by itself. Faith saves us. ONLY obedience is working under the Law. We are no longer under the Law --- and anyway, faith saved in the O.T. too.

4. Faith.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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You know full well that NO ONE obeys God 24/7/365 and EXACTLY why the RIGHTEOUSNESS of CHRIST is imputed to our ACCOUNT and exactly why when GOD SEES THE BLOOD HE PASSES OVER US and exactly why GOD CAN SEE us as ETERNALLY JUSTIFIED and exactly why the GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE IS IRREVOCABLE.......

The following were written with believers/saved people on the planet, including APOSTLES (THE LATTER)

There is not a just man upon the earth that does good and sins NOT (OBEYS ALL THE TIME)

ALL OUR RIGHTEOUSNESSES ARE AS FILTHY RAGS

THERE IS NONE GOOD BUT GOD

The problem comes when you guys conflate justification/salvation WITH Sanctification and by doing so you devalue the implication and application of what it means to he JUSTIFIED BY FAITH WITHOUT THE DEEDS/WORKS OF THE LAW!
I agree with you.
But the angel of death only passed over the houses that had the blood on the doorway.
We must always have the blood on the doorway in order to remain saved. If the blood is removed or washed away, the angel of death will be visiting us....

Agreed as to the righteousness of Christ being imputed to us.
As long as we keep Jesus in our lives, HIS righteousness is ours to cherish.

I'm sure you know that the filthy rags verses are referring to the actions of persons who had no belief or faith in God....these are useless to God; no need to debate it. It's our heart that He wants...
Proverbs 23:26
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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Rewarded for our works and deeds........! Called BEMA SEAT for the saved......if you make it to the Great White Throne JUDGEMENT....you are going to be bumming!
So you're saying that we ARE to do good works and deeds (after salvation) or we end up at the GWTJ ??

Yes. I agree.
Jesus said so...
John 5:28-29
 

GodsGrace101

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Sep 14, 2018
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He that believes on the SON is having everlasting life.

It pleased GOd by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE

THE MUSTARD has already been cut....it is called faith, and that is what saves a man.....or a woman!
I've asked you many times....
Please explain to us what BELIEVE means.
Thanks.
 

GodsGrace101

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Sep 14, 2018
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Those who obey God and walk with Him do so BECAUSE they are saved and not in order to become saved. If you believe that we maintain our salvation based on the merits of our obedience, then please explain exactly how much obedience it take? Sinless, perfect obedience 100% of the time? 90% of the time? 50% of the time? :unsure:
MMD, Youi know this is a silly question.
Let me ask YOU something:
How much faith does it take to be saved?
See. It works the same way.
The faith of a mustard seed.
The obedience we can muster.


Where do you draw the line in the sand and say that you were "obedient enough" so now the Lord will be able to save you? Is that salvation through faith in Christ or salvation by works?

Works-salvationists (including Roman Catholics and Mormons) often quote these verses below in order to teach salvation by works. :cautious:
These questions are irrelevant since our works do not save us.
I never said this.


Jesus said, “If anyone desires to come after Me/be My disciple, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me. Only genuine believers are capable of doing this. I've heard those who teach sinless perfection say that anything short of living a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) fall short of picking up their cross daily and following Jesus and won't be saved. It's about the DIRECTION of our walk and NOT the perfection of our walk.
of course. There is none righteous, no not one.
We won't be perfect till we get to heaven.


We are saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works. (Ephesians 2:8-10)
In regards to the rich young man in Matthew 19/Luke 18, the rich young man confidently and (self righteously) declared that he has kept the commandments from his youth up and qualified for heaven under those terms. Yet Jesus knew the man's wealth had become his idolatrous god, which kept him from believing in and following Jesus. His face fell and he went away sad because he could not part from his great wealth, not even in exchange for eternal life.

Agreed. But we do have to do the good works.....right?
If we say Jesus is our Lord,,,,but then do not obey Him and act as a good disciple should...
is He really our Lord or are we just making believe?
The Rich Young Man --- yes, we all have something we don't like to leave. If we trust in Jesus God will even forgive us that. But this parable does show, once again, that Jesus did not speak of salvation the way we understand it today; He spoke of acts and deeds and believing in the true sense of the Greek way of believing....you like Greek, you know what believe means.... (I'm not repeating it AGAIN!)

After a casual reading of the parable of the sheep and goats in Matthew 25:31-46, one might conclude that these passages of scripture suggest that salvation is the result of good works, yet all scripture proves itself right and non-contradictory when compared with the totality of scripture. This passage has to be taken alongside the whole of scripture. Jesus was not advocating salvation by works. That would be contrary to Romans 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5 etc... One's works are an effect of (and therefore indication of) one's salvation status, rather than being a cause of one's salvation. It's performance based salvation, but salvation based performance.
Jesus said one must be born from above. He's speaking to those who are born from above and how they are to behave...just like in the Beatitudes. The acts ALONE, or the behavior ALONE willl not save anyone.

On the other hand, faith alone, without works is a dead faith. Because it is alone...
James 2:17
We need both faith and works AFTER SALVATION.

The good deeds mentioned in Matthew 25:35-36 are merely the fruit that will be manifest in the lives of the redeemed. Those who are placed at Christ's right hand are not there based on the merits of their good deeds, but because Christ imputed His righteousness to them (Romans 4:2-6; Philippians 3:9). When works are mentioned in connection with salvation, the works are always the result of, not the condition of, receiving salvation. The stress is on works as a manifestation of one's faith (or lack thereof), not simply on the faith from which these works follow. So it is understandable that in this context, Matthew would stress the works that are a manifestation of one's "faith by which one receives eternal life."
Notice how practicing righteousness and love for other Christians is an indication of one's salvation status: 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. He who practices righteousness and loves his brother does so BECAUSE he is "born of God" not to become born of God. 1 John 3:14 - We know that we have (past tense) passed from death to life, because we love our brothers (present tense). Loving our brothers is the result of, not the condition of passing from death to life.

I agree but with a but.....

Notice that in, for example (and this holds true for all verses of this type) 1 John 3:10-15 John is saying that if we are born of God (verse 9) we will love and not hate and not act like Cain, because, yes, AFTER salvation God does require that we follow in His ways. Call it discipleship,,,but we must adhere to the teachings Jesus left us with, some of which are in Mathew 25 as you stated. Jesus didn't leave us with these teaching as a suggestion, it's required of us.

It's not right to come on these threads and make others believe we are not required to do anything but "believe" --- because if we even know what the word believe means, then we'll know that we are to follow in Jesus' footsteps and we should communicate how important this is,,,not water it down.
James 1:22-23



Jesus said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments." Those who "keep" (Greek word "
tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments abide in His love. Those who teach sinless perfection would say that anything short of sinless, perfect obedience 100% of the time to ALL of His commandments would mean that you do not keep His commandments and will not be saved. :rolleyes: Yet those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

In 1 John 2:3, we read - Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

I don't know anyone who thinks they are perfect. Only Jesus was perfect.
If they think they're perfect, then I agree with you.


There is a difference between DOING the will of God IN ORDER TO BECOME SAVED - John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
AND doing the will of God AFTER WE HAVE BEEN SAVED THROUGH FAITH - 1 Thessalonians 5:14 - Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. 15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all. 16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.
I agree.
I've always said I don't know exactly what we're arguing about....
 

GodsGrace101

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Sep 14, 2018
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Interesting views...

What I am seeing is separation. When united with the tree of life, partaking of the fruit....is this not being one with God, Gods grace? The focus is on God...and the tree of life does represent the Son.

To know good and evil is to put mans focus on self. That causes a cutoff from spiritual life. And man becomes physical. And the result of the focus on self is to view God as the harsh taskmaster, for the council of the Jews in Jerusalem spoke of the law being that which man could never live up to.

The only way man can be like God is to have His nature birthed in us.
There definitely was separation...but after the eating of the forbidden fruit.

As to the tree of life, I reread the beginning of Genesis again. I don't believe either A or E ate of the tree of life. This is why Genesis 3:22 God wants to banish them BEFORE they eat of it. Do you believe they had already eaten of the Tree of Life? I've never heard this. (or they would have continued to live forever...)

When God put A and E into the Garden, they knew only good. Everything He created was good, including the two. God would have wanted it to remain that way....people knowing only good.
But they didn't obey God and after they ate, they knew evil too. And so this is how evil entered into our world -- by the disobedience of Adam, HE was responsible for the fall. And thus, representing all of manking, all of mankind has paid for his sin by suffering its effects. The sin nature being just one of them. Physical death another. Separation from God as you mentioned another... It's more than man just becoming physical; this would be the sin nature in action.

God is not a harsh taskmaster...the Law was given for our own good. Different cultures have viewed God in different ways. Another poster said God was testing us. Why? Is He not God? Didn't He know we would fail?

No. The decision had to be ours. God did not make robots.