Need clarity regarding this Predestination thing and something related to an election?
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The reason is each has 5 points where they totally disagree. However there are churches that partially accept one side or the other and some adhere to some of each. As the early elders stated outside of the creeds creeds we just agree to disagree.
Here is a file I keep to post on this controversy.
______________
Quinquarticular Controversy
The diametrically opposed Calvinist and Arminian 5 points
Reformed/Calvinism
TULIP
1. Total depravity
2. Unconditional election
3. Limited atonement
4. Irresistible grace
5. Perserverance of the Saints
Arminianism
1. Free will or Human ability
2. Conditional election
3. Universal Redemption or General Atonement
4. The Holy Spirit can be Effectually Resisted
5. Falling from Grace
For a deeper discussion of the differences go to these web sites,
https://www.gotquestions.org/Calvinism-vs-Arminianism.html
Arminianism vs Calvinism Controversial Passages
https://www.xenos.org/essays/calvinism-arminianism-controversial-passages
There are denominations adhering to Calvinism, Arminianism, and parts of each creating a spectrum of different views of these issues.
Calvinism Arminianism debate
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Calvinist–Arminian_debate
Biblical Defense of Calvinism
https://www.fivesolas.com/tulipscriptures.htm
Biblical Defense of Arminianism
http://www.evidenceunseen.com/theology/calvinism-versus-arminianism/biblical-defense-of-arminianism/
Here is a file I keep to post on this controversy.
______________
Quinquarticular Controversy
The diametrically opposed Calvinist and Arminian 5 points
Reformed/Calvinism
TULIP
1. Total depravity
2. Unconditional election
3. Limited atonement
4. Irresistible grace
5. Perserverance of the Saints
Arminianism
1. Free will or Human ability
2. Conditional election
3. Universal Redemption or General Atonement
4. The Holy Spirit can be Effectually Resisted
5. Falling from Grace
For a deeper discussion of the differences go to these web sites,
https://www.gotquestions.org/Calvinism-vs-Arminianism.html
Arminianism vs Calvinism Controversial Passages
https://www.xenos.org/essays/calvinism-arminianism-controversial-passages
There are denominations adhering to Calvinism, Arminianism, and parts of each creating a spectrum of different views of these issues.
Calvinism Arminianism debate
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Calvinist–Arminian_debate
Biblical Defense of Calvinism
https://www.fivesolas.com/tulipscriptures.htm
Biblical Defense of Arminianism
http://www.evidenceunseen.com/theology/calvinism-versus-arminianism/biblical-defense-of-arminianism/
It is a command for us today as well as back then. It is the reason for missionaries going to foreign lands as well inside our borders to reach those who know nothing about God and Jesus!! Do you not feel a desire to bring those who have no knowledge of Jesus to salvation? That is what the great commission is all about!!! It is as valid today as when Jesus said it to his disciples!!!
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NO!!!!!!! We are commanded to go everywhere and preach to everyone my friend. You are twisting Jesus' words to your own destruction.(2 Peter 3:16)
After Jesus' resurrection He said 18 “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe everything I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”(Matthew 28)
After Jesus' resurrection He said 18 “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe everything I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”(Matthew 28)
Its what I call Bob the Builderism..."Can we do it?!?! Yes we can!"
"They don't need to be born again". Pffft! That flies in the face of John 3:3. Let those biscuits soak in your gravy a little longer my friend. They don't need to be born again to believe. Foolishness...utter foolishness. Without being born again, no one can even see the kingdom of heaven, let alone enter it.
"They don't need to be born again". Pffft! That flies in the face of John 3:3. Let those biscuits soak in your gravy a little longer my friend. They don't need to be born again to believe. Foolishness...utter foolishness. Without being born again, no one can even see the kingdom of heaven, let alone enter it.
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Its what I call Bob the Builderism..."Can we do it?!?! Yes we can!"
"They don't need to be born again". Pffft! That flies in the face of John 3:3. Let those biscuits soak in your gravy a little longer my friend. They don't need to be born again to believe. Foolishness...utter foolishness. Without being born again, no one can even see the kingdom of heaven, let alone enter it.
"They don't need to be born again". Pffft! That flies in the face of John 3:3. Let those biscuits soak in your gravy a little longer my friend. They don't need to be born again to believe. Foolishness...utter foolishness. Without being born again, no one can even see the kingdom of heaven, let alone enter it.
Abram was regenerate, born again by the work of God but he cannot see this, it is hidden to him in his Finney gospel. Nicodemus needed to be made aware of this truth in John 3:7 that those in the OT Scriptures he taught about were born from above, Abram being one, things he did not understand or know. The only reason Abraham believed is because he was born from above.
But I digress, hopefully you can reach Mr. Tartuffe in the midst of his twisting of what others, Scripture and you say.
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Well, who knows who is right. Let's stop dipping the biscuit in the gravy.. I donno what metaphor it is. Lets just eat that biscuit for now. Am personally going through what John Piper has to say about this. Am still going through it and it is interesting. Let's see where this goes and what i get from it. Thanks for all of your views. Am glad so many of you participated and shared your views about this deep concern of mine. You all deserve an applause.
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There is truth and error in both systems, IMO
It's a very interesting and IMPORTANT topic, but don't get in a hurry to work out all the details by choosing a system and then adopting everything that system says. Let the Holy Spirit and the Word teach you, and TBH, I don't think God honors our "fast food society"
If you listen to what extrabiblical sources to inform your decision,. You will either end up confused, or you will end up choosing a system and have less than 50 percent chance of being right. If you take your time with God's Word and depend entirely on the Spirit, He will reveal all things to you in due season.
I'm not saying it is bad to read extra-biblical books, but people seem to use them as shortcuts. When I don't understand something, I just pray about it, keeo it in mind, and keep reading and studying God's Word, and eventually He gives me an answer in something in a scripture text that I hadn't noticed before that answers my question.
Blessings
It's a very interesting and IMPORTANT topic, but don't get in a hurry to work out all the details by choosing a system and then adopting everything that system says. Let the Holy Spirit and the Word teach you, and TBH, I don't think God honors our "fast food society"
If you listen to what extrabiblical sources to inform your decision,. You will either end up confused, or you will end up choosing a system and have less than 50 percent chance of being right. If you take your time with God's Word and depend entirely on the Spirit, He will reveal all things to you in due season.
I'm not saying it is bad to read extra-biblical books, but people seem to use them as shortcuts. When I don't understand something, I just pray about it, keeo it in mind, and keep reading and studying God's Word, and eventually He gives me an answer in something in a scripture text that I hadn't noticed before that answers my question.
Blessings
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In my careful investigation of both Calvinism and Arminianism I have found both to be very Biblical. Here is what I found on both. Notice at the bottom there is a Biblical Defense of both. Refute them if you can. I can't!!
Quinquarticular Controversy
The diametrically opposed Calvinist and Armenian 5 points
Reformed/Calvinism
TULIP
1. Total depravity
2. Unconditional election
3. Limited atonement
4. Irresistible grace
5. Perserverance of the Saints
Armenianism
1. Free will or Human ability
2. Conditional election
3. Universal Redemption or General Atonement
4. The Holy Spirit can be Effectually Resisted
5. Falling from Grace
For a deeper discussion of the differences go to these web sites,
https://www.gotquestions.org/Calvinism-vs-Arminianism.html
Arminianism vs Calvinism Controversial Passages
https://www.xenos.org/essays/calvinism-arminianism-controversial-passages
There are denominations adhering to Calvinism, Arminianism, and parts of each creating a spectrum of different views of these issues.
Calvinism Armenianism debate
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Calvinist–Arminian_debate
Biblical Defense of Calvinism
https://www.fivesolas.com/tulipscriptures.htm
Biblical Defense of Arminianism
http://www.evidenceunseen.com/theology/calvinism-versus-arminianism/biblical-defense-of-arminianism/
Quinquarticular Controversy
The diametrically opposed Calvinist and Armenian 5 points
Reformed/Calvinism
TULIP
1. Total depravity
2. Unconditional election
3. Limited atonement
4. Irresistible grace
5. Perserverance of the Saints
Armenianism
1. Free will or Human ability
2. Conditional election
3. Universal Redemption or General Atonement
4. The Holy Spirit can be Effectually Resisted
5. Falling from Grace
For a deeper discussion of the differences go to these web sites,
https://www.gotquestions.org/Calvinism-vs-Arminianism.html
Arminianism vs Calvinism Controversial Passages
https://www.xenos.org/essays/calvinism-arminianism-controversial-passages
There are denominations adhering to Calvinism, Arminianism, and parts of each creating a spectrum of different views of these issues.
Calvinism Armenianism debate
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Calvinist–Arminian_debate
Biblical Defense of Calvinism
https://www.fivesolas.com/tulipscriptures.htm
Biblical Defense of Arminianism
http://www.evidenceunseen.com/theology/calvinism-versus-arminianism/biblical-defense-of-arminianism/
You have a great burden upon your shoulders if you think all of those people are going to hell unless you can save them by preaching the gospel to them. That would make it your fault that they go to hell, how can you live with that guilt? Regeneration is eternal salvation by God's sovereign grace and understand the gospel follows regeneration.
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You ignore the fact that we are to deliver the gospel message but it is up to them what they do about it. Not our problem. Many will reject it and some will accept it. Since the 1960s this country has turned mostly secular from being a Christian nation. With the eclipses God has condemned this country!!
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Perhaps, you should strive more, in gaining as much distance from those who are going to be burned mercilessly? Or, who, is going to be locked in the bottomless pit. Afterwards? Then, burned mercilessly? No? Oh well! The CHOICE is yours!
Truly sad, how many people think believing in God, is like ordering from a fast food establishment, where you can "Have it YOUR way!"
It don't work like that! Never HAS? Never WILL! Just ask the scribes and pharasee's!
I have to agree upon the guilt feeling.. Its a huge burden of guilt... like as though millions are slipping through our hands while we still struggle to understand this whole thing... And every passing day.. brings guilt.... every single death... the statistical analysis of the rate of death, no. of deaths.... it makes everything look hopeless.
He is preaching that people are already converted, and the Gospel doesn't matter, rejecting 1 Corinthians 1:21; Romans 1:16. He preaches that if any person believes in anything spiritual it means they already possess eternal salvation taking Scripture completely out of context, notably 1 Corinthians 2:14 as his proof text.
His teaching is pure mysticism, a false gospel, and a form of gnosticism, and he's here to spread only that false message.
His teaching is pure mysticism, a false gospel, and a form of gnosticism, and he's here to spread only that false message.
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Sorry but his hyper-calvinism is a false gospel.
God saves his elect through the preaching of the Gospel, 2 Timothy 2:8-10; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Romans 1:16. It is his means of salvation, and God has always used means to accomplish his purposes, something they reject. We obey God in his commission, God does the saving of his people. We are not in the least bit guilty, God will save all he intends to save; John 6:37.
God saves his elect through the preaching of the Gospel, 2 Timothy 2:8-10; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Romans 1:16. It is his means of salvation, and God has always used means to accomplish his purposes, something they reject. We obey God in his commission, God does the saving of his people. We are not in the least bit guilty, God will save all he intends to save; John 6:37.
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